Chopper
Member
Off and on, there is much that has been posted about the possibility of someone who comes to believe in Jesus Christ by faith for their Salvation and then, later on, are no longer interested in that Salvation. The question that we have before us is:
1. Were they saved in the first place? Being a Baptist all my born again life, that tradition still is at the top of the list because Baptist's firmly believe in the security of the believer to the end.
2. Is it indeed possible for someone to loose their Salvation?...Is there Scripture to support this?
3. Are there actually people who are, once saved always saved? (OSAS) and is there Scripture to support this?
It seems to me that many Christians don't really know what the Scriptures say about these questions. They simply parrot what their Pastor tells them, and those Pastor's simply teach what they have been taught. It saddens me that either church people have not been taught how to study the Scriptures, and are not challenged by their Pastor's to study the Scriptures each and every day, especially men & husbands, or church people are just to lazy to do it.
Most of you who will respond to this thread already know that I am a five point Calvinist with an added point that I have found to be scriptural....Let me explain. 5 point Calvinism ignores the masses that are not the Remnant of believers who are the Elect of God.
John Calvin taught that God chose only certain people to be the "Elect" before the foundations of the world. He also taught that the rest of humanity would remain lost except those like Pharaoh of whom He would use to demonstrate His power and authority over mankind. Pharaoh and a few others would remain lost.
Unfortunately, Calvin's teachings have led many people to disregard his very biblical teachings because of this one oversight that the masses would never have a chance to be saved.
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OK, now to answer the three questions.
1. Are the Baptist's right? There is some truth to their theology. Of course, you and I would probably agree that not everyone who makes a profession of Salvation in Christ Jesus is genuinely saved. There are some believers who "backslide" for a while, but do come back and repent of their wanderings to live a vibrant Christian life.
2. I believe that it is indeed possible for someone who made a profession of faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation and in the end, Jesus will not know who they are. Yes, there is valid Scripture to support this.
I'll start with a verse I just came across in my study of Romans (my favorite Book to study).
Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off."
The following are various Scripture references that you can look up for yourself and see Bible fact that there is something that the believer has to do in order to be OSAS otherwise they will perish.
Matthew 24:13;
Hebrews 3:6; - 3:13; - 6:4-6; - 10:23; - 10:26-29; - 10:38; - 10:39. I suggest that you read these verses in context so you'll get a clear understanding.
3. The old OSAS question.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Eph 1:8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
Eph 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 1:12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
This Scripture should convince anyone that there are those, the Elect, who because of the fact that God chose these people to be His own will certainly be guaranteed by the Holy Spirit's seal of a permanent Salvation.
Some years ago I decided to ask God about Scriptures like John 3:16. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 3:18 Whoever believes in him (Free Will) is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
These Scriptures and others like it speak of the fact that God's desire is for all to be saved, which didn't coincide with John Calvin....It's not that I'm smarter than Calvin, it's that I asked Almighty God for His wisdom in finding an answer to this serious flaw in Calvin's theology.
I started my calling to serve my Master as a Pastor of His local Church in 1976. After studying King Solomon and his request for wisdom to lead God's people, I decided that that would be the finest gift that I would ever receive from His wonderful hand.
It was because of that early prayer for wisdom that I believe some years ago, I received wisdom from my Heavenly Father on the "General Call of the Gospel". Most of you know that theology of mine that includes every person on the planet who is given an opportunity to respond to the Gospel being preached around the world today....Should anyone need to know about the General Call, I'd be glad to explain.
This has been a long post, so I'll quit here and respond to any questions you might have.
NOTE: Sorry about the spelling of longevity.
1. Were they saved in the first place? Being a Baptist all my born again life, that tradition still is at the top of the list because Baptist's firmly believe in the security of the believer to the end.
2. Is it indeed possible for someone to loose their Salvation?...Is there Scripture to support this?
3. Are there actually people who are, once saved always saved? (OSAS) and is there Scripture to support this?
It seems to me that many Christians don't really know what the Scriptures say about these questions. They simply parrot what their Pastor tells them, and those Pastor's simply teach what they have been taught. It saddens me that either church people have not been taught how to study the Scriptures, and are not challenged by their Pastor's to study the Scriptures each and every day, especially men & husbands, or church people are just to lazy to do it.
Most of you who will respond to this thread already know that I am a five point Calvinist with an added point that I have found to be scriptural....Let me explain. 5 point Calvinism ignores the masses that are not the Remnant of believers who are the Elect of God.
John Calvin taught that God chose only certain people to be the "Elect" before the foundations of the world. He also taught that the rest of humanity would remain lost except those like Pharaoh of whom He would use to demonstrate His power and authority over mankind. Pharaoh and a few others would remain lost.
Unfortunately, Calvin's teachings have led many people to disregard his very biblical teachings because of this one oversight that the masses would never have a chance to be saved.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, now to answer the three questions.
1. Are the Baptist's right? There is some truth to their theology. Of course, you and I would probably agree that not everyone who makes a profession of Salvation in Christ Jesus is genuinely saved. There are some believers who "backslide" for a while, but do come back and repent of their wanderings to live a vibrant Christian life.
2. I believe that it is indeed possible for someone who made a profession of faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation and in the end, Jesus will not know who they are. Yes, there is valid Scripture to support this.
I'll start with a verse I just came across in my study of Romans (my favorite Book to study).
Romans 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off."
The following are various Scripture references that you can look up for yourself and see Bible fact that there is something that the believer has to do in order to be OSAS otherwise they will perish.
Matthew 24:13;
Hebrews 3:6; - 3:13; - 6:4-6; - 10:23; - 10:26-29; - 10:38; - 10:39. I suggest that you read these verses in context so you'll get a clear understanding.
3. The old OSAS question.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Eph 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Eph 1:8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight
Eph 1:9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ
Eph 1:10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 1:12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
This Scripture should convince anyone that there are those, the Elect, who because of the fact that God chose these people to be His own will certainly be guaranteed by the Holy Spirit's seal of a permanent Salvation.
Some years ago I decided to ask God about Scriptures like John 3:16. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 3:18 Whoever believes in him (Free Will) is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
These Scriptures and others like it speak of the fact that God's desire is for all to be saved, which didn't coincide with John Calvin....It's not that I'm smarter than Calvin, it's that I asked Almighty God for His wisdom in finding an answer to this serious flaw in Calvin's theology.
I started my calling to serve my Master as a Pastor of His local Church in 1976. After studying King Solomon and his request for wisdom to lead God's people, I decided that that would be the finest gift that I would ever receive from His wonderful hand.
It was because of that early prayer for wisdom that I believe some years ago, I received wisdom from my Heavenly Father on the "General Call of the Gospel". Most of you know that theology of mine that includes every person on the planet who is given an opportunity to respond to the Gospel being preached around the world today....Should anyone need to know about the General Call, I'd be glad to explain.
This has been a long post, so I'll quit here and respond to any questions you might have.
NOTE: Sorry about the spelling of longevity.
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