Bible Study The two witnesses?

[NOTW]

http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/ ... 0WITNESSES



http://www.traveltheroad.com/



While im no bible brain, ive watched these two guys t.v show many times. There awesome indeed, but i cant say i dont fear for them with where they are going. Into very dangerous places. I highly recommend watching the show if you havent already. Anyway, is it possible these are the 2 witnesses? I dont think there Jew's, and the two prophets are supposed to be. Curious on your thoughts. Thanks!!

NOTW.........

 

[D46]

I didn't have to click on your link to tell you most emphatically, these two guys are NOT the two witnesses spoken in the book of Revelation...

Revelation 11:6 (KJV) These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Read the bible! Who was the one that shut up heaven that it didn't rain until he said it would? Elijah. Who turned the waters of the Nile into blood and brought about all the plagues on Egypt? Moses. These are your two witnesses. :roll:

 

[NOTW]

Yeah thats what i kinda thought. Thanks for the reply. As for bible study goes, i struggle there and reading and remembering in general. I read and forget quickly, seems like nothing likes to stick to my brain!

 

[D46]

it's like anything else in life. Like trying to learn how to operate and maintain a computer...just takes practice and above all else, a desire to learn. You don't need an IQ of 150 to underestand the bible. It was written on a 6-8th grade level for all to understand. Read a topic of interest over and over if necessary. I've done it and I'm sure many others here have done the same. Well...with a few exceptions maybe. Some are theological legends in their own mind. :D Get some help from someone you trust and let them guide you along but just as importantly, search the scriptures for yourself. If questions arise (and they will) ask that person you trust to help you understand. Prayerfully approach the bible and ask for God's guidance. It can't be read like the grocery store tabloid or any other book or magazine. It's a one of a kind and you have to approach it reverently and with the sincerity that God will open your mind and understanding to his truth.

 

[PHIL121]

While Revelation 11:6 points to Moses and Elijah as the two witnesses, it is the ONLY scripture that specifically point to them, and it is unclear whetehr John was speaking figutatively or literally. He offers no hint whatsoever of they return to earth from the unseen world if a literal view is taken. If two people appear in the last days bearing witness in the power of Moses and Elijah, the prophecy will have been met.

It also should be noted that some replace Moses with Enoch, since Moses did indeed already die. Also, in Bill Myer's very interesting fictional book "Fire of Heaven", he points out that it is quite possible one of the witnesses may be a woman.

"Those who think they know everything are only showing their ignorence"...1 Corinthians 8:2

 

[D46]

It also should be noted that some replace Moses with Enoch, since Moses did indeed already die. Also, in Bill Myer's very interesting fictional book "Fire of Heaven", he points out that it is quite possible one of the witnesses may be a woman.

Enoch doesn't fit the criteria of Moses in what John was describing in Revelation. If one were to take John's passage literally, it could be none other that Moses and Elijah. They also appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration before Christ.

The actions of the two witnesses are just those of Moses when witnessing for God against Pharaoh (the type of Antichrist, the last and greatest foe of Israel), turning the waters into blood, and smiting with plagues; and of Elijah (the witness for God in an almost universal apostasy of Israel, a remnant of seven thousand, however, being left, as the 144,000 sealed, Revelation 7:1-8) causing fire by his word to devour the enemy, and shutting heaven, so that it rained not for three years and six months, the very time (1260 days) during which the two witnesses prophesy. Moreover, the words "witness" and "prophesy" are usually applied to individuals, not to abstractions.

I'm sure I'd put a lot of trust in some fictional book (fiction to me is a waste of time) by anyone whether they knew the bible of not ...including Tim LaHaye. But a woman as one of the witnesses? Regardless of these two witnesses identification (I believe it literally what John said) the world will see the two witnesses arise from their death and ascend to heaven. It will no doubt be broadcast on live TV for all to see.

Revelation 11:11-12 (KJV) And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

 

[PHIL121]

Moreover, the words "witness" and "prophesy" are usually applied to individuals, not to abstractions..

Oh...the two witnesses are definitely people, it is just an open question of whether there ARE Moses and Elijah or simply LIKE moses and Elijah. Do I have to expalin to you what a metaphor is?

Prophecy however is FULL OF ABSTRACTIONS and symbolism.

I'm sure I'd put a lot of trust in some fictional book (fiction to me is a waste of time) .

Did you mean to put a "not" in there.

Fiction is "a waste of time". I guess that means Dante's Inferno, Pardise Lost, Pilgrim's Progress, The Screwtape Letters....that's all justr a bunch of junk, huh? :roll:

No wonder Christianity is in so much trouble if Believers have lost their capacity for imagination.

 

[Green^Horn]

most overlook them, but most of the keys to understanding the book are given in the first chapter, in verse 20 he tells john what the candlesticks are:

Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

so according to the Lords own definition, candlesticks are churches, now lets look at chapter 11 to see if these two witnesses are also called candlesticks:

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

sure enough, there it is, these two witnesses are churches,

some may ask "but why are there only two churches here when there were 7 of them in the biginning of the book?" to answer this, a carefull study of chapters 2 and 3 will show that he was not pleased with 5 of them and that only leaves 2,

now comes the question, "are churches witnesses?" yes they are, and have been for almost 2000 years:

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

so i hope now that you folks can see that the two witnesses of chapter 11 are churches and not just two men,

 

[D46]

On Revelation 11:4...
Observe here, 1. A double title given by God unto the two witnesses, spoken of in the former verse; they are styled olive-trees and candlesticks. As the olive-tree is always green, so the ministry of these witnesses is lively and efficacious; as the olive is a sign of peace, and the oil that drops from the olive an emblem of grace, so the ministry of these witnesses was a ministry both of grace and peace. Again, they are called olive-trees, because they are to minister oil to the candlesticks, which are to hold out light unto others.
Here note, That the title of candlesticks given to the churches, chap. 1 is here given to the ministers of the church; partly to show the near relation that is between them, and partly to point out the duty that is mutually incumbent upon them; namely, to hold forth the light of truth unto others.

And farther, these candlesticks are said to stand before the God of the earth, signifying their fidelity in the discharge of their duty, as in the presence of God, before whom they stand.

Observe, 2. The efficacy and power of these witnesses' ministry in the certain effects of it. What was said of Elijah and Elisha literally, is applied unto them spiritually.

1. As Elijah brought fire down from heaven, which devoured the enemy, so fire proceeds out of these witnesses' mouth, not by way of imprecation, but by way of denunciation, pronouncing the threatenings and judgments of God against them, continuing in their impenitency.

2. As Elijah had power to shut heaven, so have these witnesses power to do the like during the time of their prophecy; that is, God is provoked for the world's ill treatment of his faithful witnesses to withhold the spiritual rain of the word, and the refreshing doctrine of the gospel, from them.

Again, when it is said that these witnesses have power to turn the waters into blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, there is a manifest allusion to Moses and Aaron, who exercised such a power. Exodus 7:1-25.

Accordingly, God being provoked by the indignities offered to his faithful witnesses, permits the pure doctrine of the gospel to be corrupted, and avenges their cause, by bringing judgments on the world, as Moses did upon Egypt, according to the threatenings denounced by them.

Whence we may learn, what great credit and esteem the faithful witnesses and ministers of Christ are in with God; what power and prerogative is given to them, far surpassing the power of any mortal prince, even a power to open and shut heaven, to turn waters into blood, and to smite the earth: that is, God doth all these things upon a just occasion in vindication of them, and in revenge for the injuries done unto them.

Source of info- William Burkitt's Expository Notes

 

[PHIL121]

Way to cut and paste :roll:

 

[D46]

Fiction is "a waste of time". I guess that means Dante's Inferno, Pardise Lost, Pilgrim's Progress, The Screwtape Letters....that's all justr a bunch of junk, huh?

You left out The Tale-Tell Heart and Macbeth. Fine for high school and college but then, we grow up. :-?

 

[PHIL121]

Fiction is "a waste of time". I guess that means Dante's Inferno, Pardise Lost, Pilgrim's Progress, The Screwtape Letters....that's all justr a bunch of junk, huh?

You left out The Tale-Tell Heart and Macbeth. Fine for high school and college but then, we grow up. :-?

Yeah, well, there certainlyare a lot of self-righteous prophets on the net who post ALOT of fiction concerning the Bible.

 

[D46]

Yeah, well, there certainlyare a lot of self-righteous prophets on the net who post ALOT of fiction concerning the Bible.

What!!! Who are they PHIL...let me at 'em!! :-D

I've been teasing with this, BTW

 

[PHIL121]

One piece of evidence that points to the two witnesses being Moses and Elijah is that both were present at the Transfiguration.

However; it is quite possible that they are merely LIKE Moses and Elijah; just John the Baptist was LIKE Elijah.

 

[Darrell dunn]

Elijah was foretold in Malachi,

And when Jesus said that John was in the spirit of Elijah, The kingdom of God could have started right after Jesus died If Israel had received Jesus as their Lord.

Another reason to believe Moses as the second prophet is in Jude9, Moses' body has been already resurrected, to be used again.

 

[John the Baptist]

This is as I see it. We have 'witness' meaning about the same as 'testimony'. (THE WORD OF GOD) And we have the Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15 verses Holy Spirit documented into the Word of God.

Nothing new? We have a Bible divided into two parts. What we call the old & the new. But what did God say?? Anyhow: These are the TWO TRUE LIVING WITNESSES. And how many times have they repeated history? (nothing else is needed)

Bibles have even been gathered in piles and burned in the streets. One commentary has it: 'Such as November 26. 1793, when a decree issued in Paris, abolished religion, to June 17, 1797, ... when the French government removed restrictions against the practice of religion.'
(even the dating is interesting! :wink

---John