[_ Old Earth _] The Utter Foolishness of Abortion

[Biblereader]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abigail_an ... any_Hensel

Would you have decided to abort these children, if you
had seen in a sonogram, the fact that they have 2 heads?
Read about them. I saw their story on television. This certainly
says a lot about the so-called wisdom of abortion.

These girls do everything a single-headed girl does. They have
a driver's license, they go to public school, play volley ball
and kickball, and ride a bicycle!
Do you see how WRONG it is to abort a baby, even a
severely abnormal one? These girls are healthy, normal,
teens now.
There is NO wisdom in abortion.

Lori and Reba Schappell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lori_and_Reba_Schappell

are award-winning Musicians, have performed in
Japan, the U.S., and Germany, one designs equipment for handicapped people,
and THEY WEREN"T aborted, their parents WISELY chose to give them
birth.
Abortion is wrong. You NEVER KNOW what good will come from a seemingly
tragic life. Man's wisdom is often foolishness.
I would even go so far as to say abortion is demonic in nature, and a fleshly , non-Christlike response to an uncomfortable situation.
It's a sorry state of affairs when a female is not supported in her decision to
keep her child.

 

[Slevin]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abigail_and_Brittany_Hensel

Would you have decided to abort these children, if you
had seen in a sonogram, the fact that they have 2 heads?

I would have, yes.

These girls do everything a single-headed girl does. They have
a driver's license, they go to public school, play volley ball
and kickball, and ride a bicycle!
Do you see how WRONG it is to abort a baby, even a
severely abnormal one? These girls are healthy, normal,
teens now.
There is NO wisdom in abortion.

No, why is it wrong?

are award-winning Musicians, have performed in
Japan, the U.S., and Germany, one designs equipment for handicapped people,
and THEY WEREN"T aborted, their parents WISELY chose to give them
birth.
Abortion is wrong. You NEVER KNOW what good will come from a seemingly
tragic life. Man's wisdom is often foolishness.
I would even go so far as to say abortion is demonic in nature, and a fleshly , non-Christlike response to an uncomfortable situation.
It's a sorry state of affairs when a female is not supported in her decision to
keep her child.

That's nice, are you going to actually prove that abortion is wrong or are you just going to claim it is?

 

[Newkid00]

Well abortion is basically killing an innocent baby. So that does seem a wee bit wrong.

 

[Slevin]

Well abortion is basically killing an innocent baby. So that does seem a wee bit wrong.

No it isn't and why does it seem a wee bit wrong?

 

[Newkid00]

Well killing means ending a life, abortion does that. Killing seems bad. Or is that just me?

 

[Slevin]

Well killing means ending a life, abortion does that. Killing seems bad. Or is that just me?

Why is it bad?

 

[Newkid00]

So your saying killing of innocent human beings is okay?! It's not bad? Well I see we have some things not in common.

 

[Slevin]

So your saying killing of innocent human beings is okay?! It's not bad?

I didn't say that. You said that killing seems bad (you didn't include any other conditions, you just said killing), and I asked why.

 

[Quath]

I think an interesting way to look at this is to ponder the two possible futures. One future, an abortion decision is made and in the other future, the decision is not made.

In future A: The conjoint twins (Abigail and Brittany) live and we see in thw Wikipedia article.

In future B: They are aborted. But what happens? We can just guess, and assume, they have two othe children: Courtney and David, who are not conjoint twins.

In both futures, the children have pros and cons. One set of children will exist and the other set will not exist. (This is one of the reasons I do not like the argument of potential.)

Which one is likely to produce the more hapiness? That is a tough one. At the time of the sonogram, maybe the future with the abortion would seem to have the highest probability. (We can only guess at the future based on what we see around us.)

I don't see the abortion as bringing harm. To me it is a mostly neutral act. However, as the baby ages, the baby becomes more human and the abortion becomes less desirable.

From a religious point of view, if the girls had been aborted, most Christians assume they would go to heaven. So they would have been happier to have been aborted (unless heaven is not all that great after all).

 

[Biblereader]

When a man decides to abort a child, he is, in essence, telling himself he is
God. This is breaking the 1st Commandment.
The abortionist, and the willing pregnant woman, and the baby's father, are
all deciding that the life God created is not worth keeping alive, so, they're telling God that they believe He lied, and He made a mistake.
That is heinous blasphemy.
That is idolatry.
That is wrong.
God's plans for that 2 headed baby are not man's plans. Praise the Lord that
the children were not killed. They've brought much joy to their wise parents.
They've shown their classmates that it isn't the exterior of the human that
makes them valuable.
Take the example of Christopher Reed: the only part of his body that could move right was his head. He didn't kill himself. He lived, and did a lot of good things for others.
So, when man decides he makes better decisions than God, man commits sin,
and when man does not repent of his idolatry, he reaps the harvest connected to that sin of selfishness.

I'm so glad the parents decided they were smart and mature enough to handle all that came with giving birth to the 2 lovely girls.

 

[Quath]

Humans have the right to make life or death decisions. They do it all the time. When you decide to buy a DVD player and not send the money to an organization to save a life, you have just made a life or death decision. When you choose to take medicine instead of allowing God's will to take its course, you just made a life or death decision. When we kill a criminal or allow a criminal to be killed, we have made a life or death decision.

Since God does not make these deicisions for us, we have to make them.

And if God really cared about the life he created, then he would not allow for miscarriages (God's abortion).

 

[Biblereader]

You're being misled by the devil, or at least by some of his demons.
This abortion question is not a battle of flesh and blood, it's a battle
of good vs. evil.

A miscarriage is NOT God's abortion. There are many things humans don't see as right, (thank goodness!) but God knows the wisdom and righteousness in them.

Luke was a physician. There's nothing wrong in man helping his fellow man to get well. Illness is an opportunity for people to use their skills to help someone feel more comfortable, or even get well again.
If you tithe a tenth of your income to a Godly, Christ-centered organization, then you are doing right, and helping save lives.
If you don't tithe, and don't look for a Godly organization to send your money to, then, yes, that's wrong. A sin.

Our court system is not built on a Christ-centered foundation. Neither is our
nation, anymore. What happens to a criminal is not the result of the judge and jury following Christ, nor is the criminal following Jesus.

Quath, children are to be born within the confines of legal marriage. Same with sex. It is only to be between one man, the husband, and one woman,
the wife. All other actions are sin.
It's very simple, either you and I are serving God, or we're serving Satan.
Choose this day whom you will serve.

 

[Quath]

This abortion question is not a battle of flesh and blood, it's a battle of good vs. evil.

So if killing an innocent, unborn child is evil, then is God evil when he allows a miscarriage? If this is not evil, then how can you claim it is a battle of good ane evil?

A miscarriage is NOT God's abortion. There are many things humans don't see as right, (thank goodness!) but God knows the wisdom and righteousness in them.

Why is it not? Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy resulting in the death of the unborn. Is this not what happens in a miscarriage?

Quath, children are to be born within the confines of legal marriage. Same with sex. It is only to be between one man, the husband, and one woman, the wife. All other actions are sin.
It's very simple, either you and I are serving God, or we're serving Satan.
Choose this day whom you will serve.

I would disagree with part of this. The Bible defines marriage as one man and one or more women. If having sex with more than one woman is serving Satan, then I guess the Bible serves Satan then.

 

[Biblereader]

The Bible is foolishness to those who are perishing.

Read Romans 10:9-11, and then do it.

You'll be glad you did, Quath.

 

[Biblereader]

There's a difference between a miscarriage and an abortion.

Can you tell the difference?

One is man elevating himself to the idolatrous position of
being like God.

The other has purpose and meaning beyond your or my understanding, sometimes.
I have a relative who had a miscarriage. She's still a strong Christian woman,
devout and trusting Jesus.

I won't debate this much more with you, because some reasonings are futile.
Jesus loves you, more than anyone you love, Jesus can make all things new to you, Quath, if you trust Him. Have faith in Jesus. Tell others about Jesus washing away all yours sins, by His blood on the cross.
The 10 commandments show us all that we have sinned.
Jesus is the only Way to be forgiven by God, of our sins. Ask Him to save you, today. It will be the most important decision you've ever made.

 

[Slevin]

A miscarriage is NOT God's abortion. There are many things humans don't see as right, (thank goodness!) but God knows the wisdom and righteousness in them.

So, how do you know that a human aborting a fetus is not God influencing that person to do so? There are many things humans don't see as right, but God knows the wisdom and righteousness in them.

 

[Biblereader]

The main reason I KNOW, is, I read the bible, and I am under the authority of the New Testament, so, whatever Jesus says in the New Testament, is what we do.
God never tempts anyone to sin, God would not tell anyone to abort their baby.
Of that, I'm positive.

Jesus says 2: And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3: And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4: Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5: And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6: But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Did you see the many references He makes to little children? They are precious, their trust is something to be treated with value and care, and since you don't know which baby will grow up and become a Christian, then you have no business setting yourself up as God, and deciding that this little one is not worth keeping alive.
Abortion is sin. It's a person deciding that the life in them is to be trampled upon.
God never tells any woman to kill her child. Not ever.
The devil, who is a destroyer, might.
Or, her fleshly nature might lead her to destroy her baby.
You don't know, neither do I.
I am absolutely positive though, that nowhere in the New Testament is anyone told to kill children.
I abide by the New Testament. Every born again Christian does.

 

[Slevin]

The main reason I KNOW, is, I read the bible, and I am under the authority of the New Testament, so, whatever Jesus says in the New Testament, is what we do.
God never tempts anyone to sin, God would not tell anyone to abort their baby.
Of that, I'm positive.

You just said that anything God does is not a sin. So him letting children die or killing children is not a sin. If he influences events so that someone aborts a fetus, then it's not a sin.

 

[peace4all]

if aborting a baby is wrong because it kills an innocent person, than anything that kills anyone is wrong, because all people are innocent to everyone but god. God is supposed to be the only one that judges.

or,.. since all people are sinners, that would mean that no one is innocent?

 

[Biblereader]

Babies and little children are not able to tell the difference between
right and wrong, so, in God's eyes, they are precious, and would immediately
be in Heaven with Him, if they were to die young.

Everyone is NOT God's child. You must be born again.
An adult, and people who are old enough to know who Jesus is,
and the difference between Heaven and Hell, right and and wrong,
has the potential to be sent to hell when they die, if they die outside of Christ,
or, to live forever in Heaven with Jesus. It's their choice.
To enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
YOu must choose that for yourself.

Everyone past a certain age is held accountable for their sins.
That's why anyone, no matter how young or old, can speak up and
say they want Jesus to save them, and, Jesus WILL save them.