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The world is also a heaven.

CherubRam

CherubRam

Judaic Christian
Member
The world is also a heaven.
Genesis 1:8
And God called the (World, / firmament) Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


“At hand” means, here.
Matthew 3:2
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is (at hand / here.)

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is (at hand / here.)

Matthew 10:7
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is (at hand / here.)


“The kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is (within you / in your midst.)


God’s dwelling place is now among the people.
Revelation 21:3
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! (God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them.) They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
 
CherubRam said:
The world is also a heaven.
Genesis 1:8
And God called the (World, / firmament) Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Click to expand...
I have NOT found any example of Gen1:8 with the word world in it !



Do you CherubRam understand these verses in Proverbs 30 ?

5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
 
hawkman said:
I have NOT found any example of Gen1:8 with the word world in it !



Do you CherubRam understand these verses in Proverbs 30 ?

5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Click to expand...
"Firmament" can be translated as (ground, land, Earth, World.)
KJ21
Gen 1:8. And God called the firmament Heaven.
 
CherubRam said:
"Firmament" can be translated as (ground, land, Earth, World.)
KJ21
Gen 1:8. And God called the firmament Heaven.
Click to expand...
Can it? This is prooft-texting because you're removing the verse from the context:

Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
Gen 1:10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (ESV)

We see in verse 7 that God makes "the expanse" and then "separated the waters that were under the expanse," that is, the water on the earth, "from the waters that were above the expanse," which are the waters of the atmosphere. Note then in verse 8 that he "called the expanse Heaven." Verse 9 carries on with God gathering all "the waters under the heavens," which are then "called Seas" in verse 10.

So, firmament simply cannot mean "ground, land, Earth, world" since the waters under the firmament are the seas which surround the dry land.

râqı̂ya‛
BDB Definition:
1) extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
1a) expanse (flat as base, support)
1b) firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
1b1) considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting ‘waters’ above

raqia (956a); from H7554; an extended surface, expanse: — expanse (16), expanse of heaven (1).

râqı̂ya‛
raw-kee'-ah
From H7554; properly an expanse, that is, the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky: - firmament.

In none of Brown-Driver-Briggs (top), New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance (middle), and Strong's does raqia refer to "ground, land, Earth, world." Further, Wilson's Old Testament Word Studies doesn't list those meanings either, but simply says "expanse."
 
Free said:
Can it? This is prooft-texting because you're removing the verse from the context:

Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.
Gen 1:10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good. (ESV)

We see in verse 7 that God makes "the expanse" and then "separated the waters that were under the expanse," that is, the water on the earth, "from the waters that were above the expanse," which are the waters of the atmosphere. Note then in verse 8 that he "called the expanse Heaven." Verse 9 carries on with God gathering all "the waters under the heavens," which are then "called Seas" in verse 10.

So, firmament simply cannot mean "ground, land, Earth, world" since the waters under the firmament are the seas which surround the dry land.

râqı̂ya‛
BDB Definition:
1) extended surface (solid), expanse, firmament
1a) expanse (flat as base, support)
1b) firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above)
1b1) considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting ‘waters’ above

raqia (956a); from H7554; an extended surface, expanse: — expanse (16), expanse of heaven (1).

râqı̂ya‛
raw-kee'-ah
From H7554; properly an expanse, that is, the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky: - firmament.

In none of Brown-Driver-Briggs (top), New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance (middle), and Strong's does raqia refer to "ground, land, Earth, world." Further, Wilson's Old Testament Word Studies doesn't list those meanings either, but simply says "expanse."
Click to expand...
In those days it did not rain, but a mist arose from the ground to water the Earth. The waters ABOVE are rivers and lakes. The land around the world is also a expanse, the firmament.
www.biblegateway.com

Genesis 1:8 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
 
CherubRam said:
In those days it did not rain, but a mist arose from the ground to water the Earth. The waters ABOVE are rivers and lakes.
Click to expand...
No, the Bible clearly says the waters below the firmament are the seas, which would include lakes and rivers.

CherubRam said:
The land around the world is also a expanse, the firmament.
www.biblegateway.com

Genesis 1:8 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com
Click to expand...
Okay. All of that supports what I stated, namely, that the firmament, the expanse, is the sky, or heaven, not the ground.
 
Free said:
No, the Bible clearly says the waters below the firmament are the seas, which would include lakes and rivers.


Okay. All of that supports what I stated, namely, that the firmament, the expanse, is the sky, or heaven, not the ground.
Click to expand...
FYI rivers and lakes are above the sea.
 
CherubRam said:
FYI rivers and lakes are above the sea.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure not all of them are, but that is not what is being talked about. No version of the Bible that I’ve seen, even that list you provided, supports what you have said. That should tell you something.
 
Free said:
I’m pretty sure not all of them are, but that is not what is being talked about. No version of the Bible that I’ve seen, even that list you provided, supports what you have said. That should tell you something.
Click to expand...
Translators of the bible are not always correct.
 
CherubRam said:
Translators of the bible are not always correct.
Click to expand...
They may be, they may not be. For the most part, layman cannot know without consulting myriad other sources. One of the obvious ones with errors is the NWT, at least in sticking with the standard formal and dynamic equivalency versions.

But when practically all of them agree and, I’m assuming, you have no relevant education or experience, then the best option is to stick with what the translators, lexicons, and commentaries say.
 
Free said:
They may be, they may not be. For the most part, layman cannot know without consulting myriad other sources. One of the obvious ones with errors is the NWT, at least in sticking with the standard formal and dynamic equivalency versions.

But when practically all of them agree and, I’m assuming, you have no relevant education or experience, then the best option is to stick with what the translators, lexicons, and commentaries say.
Click to expand...
I have many thousands of hours in my study of scriptures. I also have many books and online sources. I grew up as a Baptist, but along the way I became more of a Protestant.
 
CherubRam said:
The world is also a heaven.
Genesis 1:8
And God called the (World, / firmament) Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


“At hand” means, here.
Matthew 3:2
And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is (at hand / here.)

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is (at hand / here.)

Matthew 10:7
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is (at hand / here.)


“The kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is (within you / in your midst.)


God’s dwelling place is now among the people.
Revelation 21:3
And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! (God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them.) They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
Click to expand...
This world, earth, heaven, is to be destroyed.

The new heavens are what matters.

That new heaven is within us.

Read CAREFULLY, disputers, the world may know that the Father sent the Son, to love those ( not of the world/chosen out of the world) with the Father in the Son, and the Son in them/.to be perfect in one.



Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
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