The World is Ending...don't make plans for summer vacation!

[Elijah674]

sadly many churches take books like the left behind series as dogma. . read the bible then believe what it says. and also reexmanine. i have some fellow members of my church who are dogmatic pre-tribbers. i try to show them the wholes with that idea. they look at me like what you dont see the end is near? duh i do. where is the promise that we dont face the wrath of satan in the bible?

Its not there, just that real Christian's will be able to bear it. And if 'i' have it understood correctly? there is not anyone posting that will not be a believer before long! Too late? most likely. For God allows satan stuff for the ones who did not have oppurtunity as most USA one have had, while doing little good. The Matt. 7 ones will be heavily hit! Luke 12:47-48

 

[warhorse]

That must be a new Post Trib view. It sounds much like the Pre Wrath view, where God spared His people the agony of going through the Wrath.

It's the view I hold, sans the future seven year "tribulation period". :yes

No thats pretty much the definetive view. Pre wrath is very much the same except the pre-wrath stresses the pre-wrath angle, were post tribe will be less focused on that point believing that God can preserve us through it one way or the other. Mid trib is very close as well, they simply have not yet abondoned a 7 year trib of Gods wrath, wrather than satans. In fact most of these pos vary little.

 

[Nathan]

Does a thief in the night announce his plans ahead of time?

"Hey is this 123 ABC St.?"

- Yes. May I ask who's calling?

"I am thief. I'm just calling to tell you that tonight at about 3:00 am, I am going to break in through the back door and rob you of all your valuables. I will be wearing all black and a ski mask. I will be extremely quiet and promise not to wake you!"

That pretty much sums up the logic of Mr. Camping

I used to think this, but after some study I think that what we think of a "thief in the night" being is not what it was back in that day.

I know its not a new way of viewing, but I believe that people back then were well aware of thief's that came in the night. Its not like here where they come and are gone, without anyone knowing. Back then, I believe, thief's announced their presence as they came down the street. It struck fear and anxiety into the hearts of their victims.

Why do I believe this? Because it is much like what Christ tells us it will be. People back then might not know what day, or what hour, the thief would come. But when you heard a lot of screaming and yelling down the road, you were pretty sure that something bad was coming your way. So in that regard, I believe we can see things unfolding and determine with some accuracy when His coming will be.

All through the Bible people may not have known exactly what moment an event would happen, but those who were watching and waiting could understand with precision when it was happening. God would give a prophecy. The prophecy would be interpreted. Then when the prophecy started taking place, some would see it for what it is, while others stood in disbelief of why it was taking place.

Christ gives indication that it will happen suddenly, but not without ample warning. I mean seriously, when we look at the events in Revelation, they are not subtle. Of course, this is where the pre-trib theory comes into play. But its "mainstay" is the thief in the night thing, and I really believe we just do not understand it the way it was back then.

If we simply read Matthew 24, we find a host of things liken to Revelation. He does state there that no one knows the day or the hour, but what about the week? Interesting.

Mat 24:36-39 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

We know that it WILL BE just like in the days of Noah. I know Elijah has already posted something to this effect, but it bears repeating. Noah did not know the day or the hour. But we have a clue buried in Genesis. Noah was commanded to build the ark and was told why. He had no clue when it would happen, but just before it happened God told him.

Gen 7:4 For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground."

So at the time of the prophecy, Noah had no clue. But when the time came to be, he did know. But guess what? The people around him had no clue, even up to the very minute he entered the ark and God shut the door. They denied it to the end. They were blind. We are not, Noah was not.

Mat 24:43-44 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

He tells us to be ready and watching for the signs. Not to be in the mindset that we will never know, so therefore just do not consider the matter. We know "what part" of the night the thief is coming. Right in the middle, during the darkest time. We are told to be ready, just like a man who did know what part of the night the thief was coming. When it gets to that point, we need to stay away and not let the darkness around us consume us and fall asleep. I think that chapter 24 and chapter 25 go hand in hand and are a MUST for correct interpretation.

 

[Sam21]

Christians are told that we are not in darkness that the day of the Lord should take us unaware,however we are told that we will not know the day and hour. Paul mentioned two things to look for that the day of the Lord was about to occur,one was the falling away from the faith and the other was the revealing of the antichrist by taking his position as god and declaring himself to be god. Jesus also mentioned signs in the heavens just before His return. Apparently the unsaved world will not see these signs as the same way that the christians see those signs. Presently the antichrist has not revealed himself by claiming to be god so the time of Christ return is yet in the future.

 

[D4Christ]

Christians are told that we are not in darkness that the day of the Lord should take us unaware,however we are told that we will not know the day and hour. Paul mentioned two things to look for that the day of the Lord was about to occur,one was the falling away from the faith and the other was the revealing of the antichrist by taking his position as god and declaring himself to be god. Jesus also mentioned signs in the heavens just before His return. Apparently the unsaved world will not see these signs as the same way that the christians see those signs. Presently the antichrist has not revealed himself by claiming to be god so the time of Christ return is yet in the future.

I agree about the signs that are to take place, but I do believe that the unsaved world will be aware of the of at least one set of signs.

There are two major events we watch for. One is the Great Tribulation. The sign for "elect" Christians that this had taken place that Christ warns us specifically to look for is the abomination of desolation. The AOD is one event that I believe will most likely not be obvious to the unsaved, as well as those who claim to know Christ, but haven't changed their hearts. That is because when the AC takes power during the AOD, he is also given power to reign for 42 months, power to deceive those who haven't listened to the Truth and power to persecute those who follow Christ. Christ warns us that this deception will be so great that even true Christians could be deceived. The world will seem nuts to those of us in the "know" and all will be right with everyone else. Most will not see anything wrong with what is going on.

However, the next event, the Day of the Lord, promises to be one event that all will see the signs for as promised in scriptures. The signs for the DOL (sun, moon, stars) announce the coming of the Lord (and our subsequent rapture) and will be seen and felt by everyone as described in Rev 6 (NLT):

12 I watched as the Lamb broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake. The sun became as dark as black cloth, and the moon became as red as blood. 13 Then the stars of the sky fell to the earth like green figs falling from a tree shaken by a strong wind. 14 The sky was rolled up like a scroll, and all of the mountains and islands were moved from their places.
15 Then everyone—the kings of the earth, the rulers, the generals, the wealthy, the powerful, and every slave and free person—all hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they cried to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the one who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to survive?â€

Of course of the two types of signs mentioned, the GT signs are the most nerve racking because whether or not you are aware that the GT is in effect really depends on whether or not you have been a true or false christian. Unfortunately, those who have been true christians will be attacked by the false ones, feel abandoned, accused of everything (probably even witchcraft) and be the loneliest they have ever been. It will be a rough time for sure.

 

[Hitch]

The notion that God is going to take the last generation and specificly judge them in history only to toss them into hell shortly thereafter is silly.
Just once in history did our Lord walk the earth in the flesh, and at that time his own people rejected him to the point of regicide and it is judgement for that crime of that generation Jesus warned of. It has nothing to do with anyone living today or 500 years from now.

 

[D4Christ]

The notion that God is going to take the last generation and specificly judge them in history only to toss them into hell shortly thereafter is silly.

I agree it is silly, especially since scriptures don't indicate that it is only the last generation that is judged. Scriptures state that after the millinium the rest of the dead, those part of the second resurrection, will rise and be judged according to their deeds. Now if the first to rise were those who did not accept the mark of the beast and those who died in Christ, then the 2nd group would have to include everyone else. Both groups include everybody since man walked the earth. There are no time limitations placed on who the dead are.

2 Cor 5 (NLT)

10 For we must all stand before Christ to be judged. We will each receive whatever we deserve for the good or evil we have done in this earthly body.

Just once in history did our Lord walk the earth in the flesh, and at that time his own people rejected him to the point of regicide and it is judgement for that crime of that generation Jesus warned of. It has nothing to do with anyone living today or 500 years from now.

Unless those walking with Christ during his lifetime took the mark of the beast then the scritpures below are speaking also to a future generation.

Rev 19 (NLT)

20 And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast—miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Rev 20

12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

It is evident that the judgement spoken of in scriptures is for all. Those who are in the 1st resurrection are rewarded according to their deeds. Those in the 2nd resurrection are judged to determine if they will have everlasting life or death.

Rev 14 (NLT)

9 Then a third angel followed them, shouting, “Anyone who worships the beast and his statue or who accepts his mark on the forehead or on the hand 10 must drink the wine of God’s anger. It has been poured full strength into God’s cup of wrath. And they will be tormented with fire and burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. 11 The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name.â€

 

[Hitch]

I agree it is silly, especially since scriptures don't indicate that it is only the last generation that is judged.

specificly judge them in history,

Scriptures state that after the millinium the rest of the dead, those part of the second resurrection, will rise and be judged according to their deeds. Now if the first to rise were those who did not accept the mark of the beast and those who died in Christ, then the 2nd group would have to include everyone else. Both groups include everybody since man walked the earth. There are no time limitations placed on who the dead are.

2 Cor 5 (NLT)




Unless those walking with Christ during his lifetime took the mark of the beast then the scritpures below are speaking also to a future generation.

I refer you to ;
33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Rev 19 (NLT)


Rev 20


It is evident that the judgement spoken of in scriptures is for all. Those who are in the 1st resurrection are rewarded according to their deeds. Those in the 2nd resurrection are judged to determine if they will have everlasting life or death.

Rev 14 (NLT)

So what? Historical judgements take place for specific crimes, in the case of the so called great tribulation that crime was regicide and that generation was punished accordingly. No other generation has the ability to commit that offence.

 

[Elijah674]

The Abomination That [Makes Desolate]

Isa. 5 has God with a Vineyard & it is He that is in this fold (Virgin in Doctrine House ibid 7) that made it a House of God!

The way to find the REAL Desolation (Matt. 23:38) is to take Christ out of the House as seen below! And it is a repeat prophecy Eccl. 3:15 as seen below in Rev. 3:16)

You'ins need to just forget the Jer. 17:5 arm of flesh, and read Isa. 5, for everything is there! But ask yourself, when satan takes Christ out of His true Virgin ex/fold through apostasy, what does it (the fold) become? and who takes (took) over? Even compare the last Virgin Fold of Rev. 3 verse 9! (this is the repeated past/tense ones of Laodicea Rev. 3:16's Spewed out ones)
Isa.5

[1] Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

[2] And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

[3] And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, [[betwixt me and my vineyard.]]

(OK: A perfect House for God, with His PERFECT VIRGIN Psalms 77:13 Doctrines, making the wrong choice taking the house instead of the Christ of the DWELLING, LEAVES IT DESOLATE! And make NO Mistake, Christ still REQUIRES BOTH His House + Himself! )

And again: What is the Most Important Name under Heaven Given to Mankind! Acts 4:12

'Neither is there Salvation in any other: for there IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, Whereby WE MUST BE SAVED.'

And the Eccl. 3:15 REJECTION OF CHRIST BY LAODICEA IS THE REPEATED ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION!
And it was marked by an event!

 

[Alabaster]

And the Eccl. 3:15 REJECTION OF CHRIST BY LAODICEA IS THE REPEATED ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION!
And it was marked by an event!

It ain't happened yet, and no one knows exactly what the AOD actually is.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Even though Camping is definitely wrong about making such predictions, for no man knows the day or hour of Christ return, however, God may have used this man to keep His elect informed to the approximate timing of His second coming. If camping is off one day, He is wrong and confirmed as false prophet, but Christ made His True People live in expectation of His coming..

 

[Elijah674]

The Abomination That [Makes Desolate]

Isa. 5 has God with a Vineyard & it is He that is in this fold (Virgin in Doctrine House ibid 7) that made it a House of God!

The way to find the REAL Desolation (Matt. 23:38) is to take Christ out of the House as seen below! And it is a repeat prophecy Eccl. 3:15 as seen below in Rev. 3:16)

You'ins need to just forget the Jer. 17:5 arm of flesh, and read Isa. 5, for everything is there! But ask yourself, when satan takes Christ out of His true Virgin ex/fold through apostasy, what does it (the fold) become? and who takes (took) over? Even compare the last Virgin Fold of Rev. 3 verse 9! (this is the repeated past/tense ones of Laodicea Rev. 3:16's Spewed out ones)
Isa.5

[1] Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

[2] And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

[3] And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, [[betwixt me and my vineyard.]]

(OK: A perfect House for God, with His PERFECT VIRGIN Psalms 77:13 Doctrines, making the wrong choice taking the house instead of the Christ of the DWELLING, LEAVES IT DESOLATE! And make NO Mistake, Christ still REQUIRES BOTH His House + Himself! )

And again: What is the Most Important Name under Heaven Given to Mankind! Acts 4:12

'Neither is there Salvation in any other: for there IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, Whereby WE MUST BE SAVED.'

And the Eccl. 3:15 REJECTION OF CHRIST BY LAODICEA IS THE REPEATED ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION!
And it was marked by an event!

Me again:
And next on the agenda is Matt. 24:21 escalation of one diaster following another, along with crime, vice & the like! Aids, heart, cancer and on & on...!

And for sure, MORAL DECAY INSIDE OF Rev. 17:1-5's churchs!! Read on from Matt. 24:21 & you will even find who it is that God allows satan to deceive & how!

All of this is leading up to forced worship to try to appease an angry God they say!

And on comes about the only thing that rome & her daughters agree on, huh! Plus of course Rom. 13's 'required' use of Caesar for Sunday Legislation with rome & a couple nonChristion daughters already on the USA Supreme court for ligation!

And the time elment? Even with the quarenteen of not being able to buy or sell, it will most likely be a year before the death decree takes effect. And some of our 'friends' who already hate the Lord's 7th day Sabbath, will jump the gun.

---Elijah

 

[Eventide]

And some of our 'friends' who already hate the Lord's 7th day Sabbath, will jump the gun.

---Elijah

What 7th day Sabbath are you talking about here.. Saturday ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

The abomination that makes desolate has occurred, it is the corruption of the Church, what should be the representation of the Truth, it no longer is, it has been overrun with False Doctrines that dishonor God. So the Temple, where God should meet with His People has been destroyed by false Gospels..Thats the Man of Sin, Satan ruling the churches through unsaved men who preach and teach false gospels..

 

[D4Christ]

I couldn't help brining this up again but I am getting....excited is not the right word....more interested as we approach May 21st. I used to listen to Camping a few times a week on the radio. It was carthardic because I would yell at the radio and tell him how wrong he was. Since I was by myself in my car I know folks thought I was crazy.

Anyway I just saw a youtube video where a caller into his radio station asked Camping if he would refund the money given to him by many seniors, who are clearing out their bank accounts, on May 22nd. Camping was upset and said that May 22nd was the 2nd day of judgement and that the caller's request was ridiculous because judgement was going to happen. The caller insisted Camping do it to show he is not trying to swindle anyone but Camping would hear nothing from the man.

[video=youtube;b9acwNHKvoo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9acwNHKvoo&feature=player_embedded[/video]

I have always noticed that when camping is giving a false answer/lying he always stutters thru his answer...and he did not let me down this time. Even though Camping is a false prophet, I suspect that Satan might oblige him and russle up a rather large earthquake for him on May 21st....earthquakes happen everyday so why not on 5/21?

Oh well, I just hope there is no kool aid involved.

Dee

 

[freeway]

No man knows the hour of our Lords coming NO one, but we can know the season, God has never moved in history, that is earth changing moments of mankinds history or their future at that time. I believe even in future events God will not move without letting His people know. From Noah, Abraham, to the Jews at the time of Christ first coming. God kept His children informed. It was they that missed the signs, the one that did miss them that is. Its up to us to look for the signs and place them in the right perspective.. and not jump the gun..:D

 

[MMA]

I’ve read up on the May 21st theory and even though they have means for their math they stretch it way far and it is impossible to conclude their date. So I don’t buy their exact date but could the world be coming to an end? I think so. Just look at the messed up things that are happening in the world (it would take me forever to go down the list).

 

[D4Christ]

I’ve read up on the May 21st theory and even though they have means for their math they stretch it way far and it is impossible to conclude their date. So I don’t buy their exact date but could the world be coming to an end? I think so. Just look at the messed up things that are happening in the world (it would take me forever to go down the list).

As someone who studies eschatology, I agree with you...the world does seem to be winding down. But so many people in past times have believed this, so what makes it more true now? Like you said there is a long list of things to look at but I often pray that it true now like never before and I pray for the Lord's return in my lifetime.

Like I sometimes say, "Stop the world....I want to get off!"

Blessings,
Dee

 

[Vic C.]

I’ve read up on the May 21st theory and even though they have means for their math they stretch it way far and it is impossible to conclude their date. So I don’t buy their exact date but could the world be coming to an end? I think so. Just look at the messed up things that are happening in the world (it would take me forever to go down the list).

How about we look at this from a historical aspect. First off, there is nothing new under the sun. That's Biblical. If it would take you forever to list what's going down today, how long would it take us to list all the horrific things that went down through the centuries?

Lets see, racial and cultural genocide is nothing new.

Sexual immorality sure isn't new either. Heck, we also scoff at the idea of our teans getting married too early when in fact, it was very common and practical in the days of old.

Killing for the sake of killing, nope, not new either.

Torture? Well, think of what the Brits did centuries ago for those who committed treason.

Crucifixion, which ran rampant through the Roman Empire, was pretty cruel also.

Wars and rumors of wars? that too has been going on for 1,000's of years.

Children disrespecting their elders? Not new either. Aristotle wrote a letter about disobedient children in his time.

Stalin... Hitler, Khan, Napoleon, Mussolini, most of the Roman Emperors, etc.

The various plagues before man learned to contain them through the God-given miracle of medicine.

It seems bad to us (and it is), but it's largely because we are living through it and we have this tendency to disconnect ourselves from events past.

I am 54 and sometimes I say things like, "well back in the day..." because even I feel things were a lot simpler then.

But then I think of my dad, who is a Depression baby...

 

[Vic C.]

Like I sometimes say, "Stop the world....I want to get off!"

Blessings,
Dee

Hey! I remember that song, Dee.