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They Are Saying That Prayer, Does Not Work

Lewis

Member
I got this from USA Today. What do you all think of this garbage. Because if God wants to heal people from the interceding, of praying people or relatives. that believe in the healing power of Jesus. He will heal them. And if it is not in His will to do so, He will not. It's just that simple. I know first hand about His healing power.

Study shrugs off prayer's power to heal
By Liz Szabo, USA TODAY
Some say prayer can move mountains. But can anyone prove it helps heart patients sail through surgery? Researchers from six hospitals across the USA set out to try.

In the largest study to examine the effects of this profoundly personal activity, researchers found that asking strangers to pray for heart-bypass patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who were told that study volunteers were praying for them were actually more likely to suffer a medical complication. (Related: Study Q&A)

Earlier studies have produced mixed results on the effects of praying for others. Dean Marek, a Catholic chaplain at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., who helped supervise the study, says the findings won't talk people out of asking God to help the people they love.

"What the study might do is help people more on the deeper realities of the meaning of prayer," he says.

While prayer takes many forms, researchers focused on a type whose outcome can be measured: praying that surgical patients would recover quickly without complications. They did not study the effects of praying for oneself, which past research has shown to have a relaxing effect. Study patients and their families also could pray for their recovery.

Volunteers from one Protestant prayer group and two Catholic ones prayed for patients in the trial, called the Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP), to be published Tuesday in the American Heart Journal.

Researchers randomly assigned patients to three groups: One group was prayed for; one was not prayed for; and a third group was told that people were praying for it. None of the patients in the first two groups knew whether people were praying for them. Among patients who didn't know that they were being prayed for, 51%-52% had a post-surgical complication, according to the study. A statistically significant 59% of those who knew others were praying for them had a complication, the study said.

These patients may have felt extra stress because they weren't allowed to tell doctors and nurses that they were being prayed for, says Charles Bethea, chief medical officer for the Integris Baptist Heart Hospital in Oklahoma City and a leader of the trial. Or, he says, they may have worried, "Are they so sick that they are calling in the prayer team?"

Mark Coppenger, a professor at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, believes in praying for others, but he questions the wisdom of measuring God's response. "It's my experience that God actually prompts our prayers," Coppenger says. "But I don't see him cooperating in a test."

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Lewis W said:
I got this from USA Today. What do you all think of this garbage. Because if God wants to heal people from the interceding, of praying people or relatives. that believe in the healing power of Jesus. He will heal them. And if it is not in His will to do so, He will not. It's just that simple. I know first hand about His healing power.
No, the question should be what do you think about it? The three answers to prayer are yes, no, or not now. Think about it. Then think about the promise of where two or more are gathered in his name.
 
No, the question should be what do you think about it?
I've been healed, I know a lot of people who have been healed....and I walk in divine health.
All by the power of God.
Theres countless miracles out there if they care to go look for them...we even have television programs centered on 'miracles'.
The thing is, God isn't going under their microscope nor will He be their geni in the bottle.
If they want to see God move maybe they should fall on their faces and seek Him with all their hearts instead of trying to study Him like a lab rat.
He will heal whom He wills to heal according to His wisdom , grace, and mercy...and not according to how man thinks he can organize God.

Heres what they don't know:
It is the spirit of God that births true prayer and intercession, not man!
 
healed

destiny said:
No, the question should be what do you think about it?
I've been healed, I know a lot of people who have been healed....and I walk in divine health.
All by the power of God.
Theres countless miracles out there if they care to go look for them...we even have television programs centered on 'miracles'.
The thing is, God isn't going under their microscope nor will He be their geni in the bottle.
If they want to see God move maybe they should fall on their faces and seek Him with all their hearts instead of trying to study Him like a lab rat.
He will heal whom He wills to heal according to His wisdom , grace, and mercy...and not according to how man thinks he can organize God.
It is the spirit of God that births true intercession for a person, not man!
Many people have been "miraculously" healed that have no faith, or different faith. Many people have been "miraculously" healed that prayed , did not pray, were prayed for and not prayed for. Many Christians have prayed believing they would be healed and were not.
 
Prayers don't work unless it comes along with action.
 
Re: healed

reznwerks said:
destiny said:
No, the question should be what do you think about it?
I've been healed, I know a lot of people who have been healed....and I walk in divine health.
All by the power of God.
Theres countless miracles out there if they care to go look for them...we even have television programs centered on 'miracles'.
The thing is, God isn't going under their microscope nor will He be their geni in the bottle.
If they want to see God move maybe they should fall on their faces and seek Him with all their hearts instead of trying to study Him like a lab rat.
He will heal whom He wills to heal according to His wisdom , grace, and mercy...and not according to how man thinks he can organize God.
It is the spirit of God that births true intercession for a person, not man!
Many people have been "miraculously" healed that have no faith, or different faith. Many people have been "miraculously" healed that prayed , did not pray, were prayed for and not prayed for. Many Christians have prayed believing they would be healed and were not.
Rezenwerks, you yourself just stated that many people have been "miraculously" healed..
Stop there and think...you claim to be an atheist yet you acknowledge that some sort of supernatural ocurrances are going on in all walks of life including different religions.
At best you should be a confused agnostic don't you think?
Wouldn't you at least admit that you really don't know if theres a God or not, that theres things beyond natural understanding?
With that said, why do you pick on the christian God with all the other gods out there to mess with?
I'm not going to answer your questions because you won't be satisfied with my answers....not to mention this is one of those topics that has been beat to death that goes on and on in circles.
The answers you need are in the Bible, it clearly will tell you why other religions seem to experience their own "miracles". Its all there, God left no stone unturned.
I will say that without the Spirit of God giving you revelation knowledge of His word, you won't accept that either.
Thers no answer I can give you that will satisfy you, only God can do that.
I gotta get off of here for now, have a great day!
 
Prayers don't work unless it comes along with action.

Could you explain this? Action on who's part? And prayers are not magic spells. Grace is ALWAYS bestowed in some form or another when there is prayer. So, in essence, it always works... you just dont always get what you want.
 
belovedwolfofgod said:
Prayers don't work unless it comes along with action.

Could you explain this? Action on who's part? And prayers are not magic spells. Grace is ALWAYS bestowed in some form or another when there is prayer. So, in essence, it always works... you just dont always get what you want.

Faith without deeds is dead, prayer is faith. Without being faithful to His teachings prayers are empty words.
 
Don't forget what it says about not putting God to the test. I would say that this study was doing just that.
 
And something that must ALWAYS be taken into consideration. This life was a 'gift'. We were NEVER given an exact time limit of this 'gift'. It varies widely from a second to 120 years. We will NEVER completely comprehend God's will for the time that we have here. Ours is but to make the best of it that we can.

So, there will be times that God's will is such that some will sleep earlier than others. We don't know the intricate details of God's 'plan' so it is difficult at times for us to understand the 'why'. But rest assured, if one's heart is right they have NOTHING to fear from death. It is just another part of the journey.

It's those that 'have' something to fear that fear it most. For those, I would suggest an attempt at developing a relationship with the Father through His Son.

We are often forced to face the curses of previous generations, (through sickness and disease). It becomes obvious when one begins to realize that in the 'beginning' there WAS NO SICKNESS OR DISEASE. These are things brought about by our own disobedience, (and NO I'm not saying that anyone that gets sick brought it on themselves). When I say 'we' I refer to mankind as a whole.

And not only through our direct disobedience as we understand it, but we have done much to offer negative reactive changes in our environment also that have had negative effects on our physical and mental health.

God can and does heal the sick, when He so chooses. But NO amount of faith that exists can heal those that He chooses NOT to. That is the nature of being God. It's HIS will that matters and we are but to accept and follow it. Nothing wrong with asking, but always be willing to accept the answer, even when it is NO.
 
Re: healed

destiny said:
reznwerks said:
destiny said:
No, the question should be what do you think about it?
of God that births true intercession for a person, not man!
Many people have been "miraculously" healed that have no faith, or different faith. Many people have been "miraculously" healed that prayed , did not pray, were prayed for and not prayed for. Many Christians have prayed believing they would be healed and were not.
Rezenwerks, you yourself just stated that many people have been "miraculously" healed..
Stop there and think...you claim to be an atheist yet you acknowledge that some sort of supernatural ocurrances are going on in all walks of life including different religions.
I think you should stop and think there. We really don't know everything behind so called miraculous cures. You attribute them the "supernatural". The healings may just be rare possibilities. Again not having answers or solutions to events or questions does not default to God.The fact that all faiths and no faiths are miraculously healed means either of two possibilities. One is that we don't know what is going on and the other is if God is in back of it you don't need to proclaim any belief as he is open to one and all.
At best you should be a confused agnostic don't you think?
Wouldn't you at least admit that you really don't know if theres a God or not, that theres things beyond natural understanding?
I can't prove there is no God. As to "things" I don't see I have not ruled that out. I have been debating with myself whether to bring this up and how to do it.
With that said, why do you pick on the christian God with all the other gods out there to mess with?
Do you have any suggestions? Really in the US there isn't any other notable Gods or religions to pick on. Actually I don't pick on any Gods just the religion in back of it. I firmly don't accept the premise that God or religion is needed in order to live a good life.In reality dogma has it's roots in much of the pain and suffering that exists in the world today and instead of getting people together it only alienates them.

quote]
 
prove

ChristineES said:
Don't forget what it says about not putting God to the test. I would say t
hat this study was doing just that.

"Prove all things: hold fast that which is good."--1 Thessalonians 5:21
 
Praying for God to grant you something tangible, be it health or a shiny new car, is pointless. Praying for the strength to deal with the events of your life, however, is a different story.
 
ArtGuy said:
Praying for God to grant you something tangible, be it health or a shiny new car, is pointless. Praying for the strength to deal with the events of your life, however, is a different story.

Amen Brother.

While there's nothing 'wrong' with asking God for ANYTHING, what we should seek 'first' is the strength and patience to 'live for Him'.

He knows what we 'need' before we could even ask. But asking for the 'right' things certainly offers at least a small signal that we are willing to not only 'receive' the blessings that are offered, but are also allowing Christ into our hearts, and are thankful for even those seemingly 'tiny' gifts that are really more important than ANYTHING else that God could offer.
 
The following has been said about prayer:

“My own soul’s conviction is that prayer is the grandest power in the entire universe, that it has a more omnipotent force than electricity, attraction, gravitation, or any other of those other secret force which men have called by name, but which they do not understand.â€Â
~ Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-1892)
English preacher & writer

“Never account prayer second to preaching. No doubt prayer in the Christian church is as precious as the utterance of the gospel. To speak to God for men is a part of the Christian priesthood that should never be despised.â€Â
~ Charles Haddon Spurgeon (1834-1892)
English preacher & writer

“Prayerâ€â€secret, fervent, believing prayerâ€â€lies at the root of all personal godliness.â€Â
~ William Carey (1761-1834)
English missionary and Baptist minister, known as "father of modern missions"

I have so much business I cannot get on without spending three hours daily in prayer.†“He that has prayed well has studied well.â€Â
~Martin Luther (1483-1546)
Reformer

“Above all he excelled in prayer…The most awful, living; reverent frame I ever felt or beheld, I must say was in his prayer.â€Â
~William Penn
English Quaker & political activist, founder of the Province of Pennsylvania (today known as the state of Pennsylvania)

“[Prayer is] Intimacy with God that leads to the fulfillment of His purpose.â€Â
~Dr. Alvin L. Reid
Professor of Evangelism at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
from Introduction To Evangelism

Now there are many reasons to pray but here are some things to think about in personal prayerâ€â€oh by the way we should pray because God commands it (verse below)!

Luke 18:1
Now He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart

Personal Prayer:

Practical Matters:
  • Let your GAZE BE ON GOD, your glance on your needs.
    Let prayer be your 1st choice not your last.
    Pray retail not wholesale. (Pray for specific needs not generalitiesâ€â€A prayer list might be good)
    Pray more from conviction then crisis.

Features of Prayer:
  • Praise – our response to the person of God.
    Thanksgiving – our response to the goodness of God.
    Confession – our response to the holiness of God.
    Intercession – our response to the love of God for others.
    Petition – our response to the love of God for ourselves.
    Listening – our response to the voice of God.
    Consecration – our prayer of commitment to God.

(Information above take from class notes in Evangelism Class at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminaryâ€â€and Dr. Alvin Reid’s book Introduction To Evangelism, Broadman and Holman Publishers, Nashville Tennessee, 1998.)

Other things to consider about prayer:
Jesus prayedâ€â€examples can be found in John 17, Mark 1:35, Matthew 6, Matthew 26:36-44, Luke 6:12

A part of fighting spiritual warfare is by praying.

Prayer is vital to Evangelism!

Finally take into consideration that a key characteristic of all revivals (Be it the First and Second Great Awakening, The Layman’s Prayer Revival of 1857-59, The Global Awakening of 1900-10, a famous revival in 1970 at Asbury College) was a great deal of payer.

Prayer is one of the most vital aspects to being a Christian. Christianity is about a relationship to God. Like relationships between two people conversation is vitalâ€â€well Prayer is how one talks to God.
 
This has also been said of prayer.

"When I was young, I prayed for a bicycle every day. Then I realized the lord didn't work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness"

Sorry, I just love that joke.
 
lol @ moniker :lol:

Anyway, there are some things that man's science cannot master or harness and God is one of them.

1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are:
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
 
prayer

"...if we pray according to His will, He hears us...if He hears...we have the petitions we asked..."
If any pray NOT according to His will, then they will not be heard. I have prayed for rmany things according to His will, and He has heard.

The Brother
 
prayer

"...if we pray according to His will, He hears us...if He hears...we have the petitions we asked..."
If any pray NOT according to His will, then they will not be heard. I have prayed for rmany things according to His will, and He has heard.

The Brother
 
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