"Things Your Pastor Never Told You"

[wavy]

From Part I: The Early Church Fathers (click)

Judaism was declared an apostate and superseded religion and the Jews had now lost their right to exist. However, the Jews did exist and so the Church needed a reason for their continued existence. If their failure to recognize the Christ resulted in their dispersion, and if Christianity had superceded Judaism in being a "light to the gentiles", then why were the Jews around at all? The Church concluded that the reason Jews survived was to prove the truth of Christianity. They were to be around always, to be persecuted, vulnerable, wanderers on the earth without a home, as proof of God's wrath upon them. The condition of the Jews was to be a negative witness to their crime of deicide. This was the purpose of their existence. The Jews, therefore, were forever, everywhere, held collectively responsible for Yeshua’s death because they were "a wicked nation." Furthermore, the calamities that befell Jewry--the destruction of the Temple and the dispersion--were seen as having Christological import, pointing to what Christians saw as just desserts for killing Christ.

Augustine declared:

"The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus".

From Part II: The Middle Ages

Luther declared:

"Therefore know, my dear Christian, that next to the devil you have no more bitter, more poisonous, more vehement an enemy than a real Jew who earnestly desires to be a Jew.... Now what are we going to do with these rejected, condemned, Jewish people? You must refuse to let them own houses among us.... You must take away from them all their prayer books and Talmuds wherein such lying, cursing and blasphemy is taught.... You must prohibit their Rabbis to teach.... You shall not tolerate them but expel them"

From Part III: The Reformation

The Jew of the Middle Ages was depicted as stupid and abhorrent. Modern anti-Semitism portrayed the Jew as having superior intellect and a great capacity to excel. He was diabolical and cunning. The Jews were targeted as being a race of conspirators and for these new reasons, were again made the scapegoats of society. Jews were not sought out for individual crimes as any other criminal would be, but for the "crime of being Jewish". This meant total rejection of the Jew, and therefore, assimilation would never be possible. Judah Pinsker, a Haskala intellectual, stated that this anti-Semitism was "a psychological disease."

Very disturbing and enlightening.



***EDIT***

More from http://www.yourarmstoisrael.org

"To the utmost of your power you dishonor and curse in your synagogues, all those who believe in Christ. In your synagogues you curse those who have become Christians and the Gentiles put into effect your curse by killing all those who merely admit that they are Christians." (Justin Martyr 165 AD Dialogue with Trypho, a Greek Jew).

"How can Christians dare have the slightest conversation with the Jews, most miserable of all human beings, who are rapacious greedy, perfidious, bandits, ravenous murderers, destroyers, men possessed by the devil. The synagogue is the domicile of the devil as is the soul of the Jew. Their religion is a disease." (John Chrysostom 520 AD)

"I hate the synagogue precisely because it has the Torah and the Prophets. I hate the Jews because they outrage the Torah". (Chrysostem 520 AD)

"We too would observe your circumcision of the flesh, your Sabbath and in a word all of your festivals, if we were not aware of why they were imposed upon you, namely because of your sins and hard heart." (Barnabas Epistle Of Barnabas 130-138 AD.) Note: This is not the Jewish disciple Barnabas of the Book of Acts, but a supposedly converted pagan who wrote a forged letter and gospel by pilfering the name of the real Barnabas.

"First, their synagogues should be set on fire, secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed, thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds, fourthly, their rabbis must be forbidden under threat of death to teach anymore, fifthly, passport and traveling privileges should be absolutely forbidden for Jews, sixthly, they ought to be stopped from usury. Let the young strong Jews and Jewesses be given the flail, ax, hoe, spade distaff, spindle and let them earn their bread by the sweat of their noses. We ought to drive the rascally lazy bones out of their system. Therefore away with them. To sum up dear princes and nobles who have Jews in your domain, if this advice of mine does not suit you, then find a better one so that you and we may be all free of this insufferable devilish burden-the Jews". (Martin Luther 1523 AD)

 

[JM]

A little something else Pastor Wavy won't tell ya.

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The main division of scripture is not Old Testament and New Testament. The true division of scripture is prophecy and mystery. When Peter spoke to the nation Israel in his day he offered them the return of Christ and the restitution of all things, telling them that all this was "spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began". (Acts 3:19-21) The Apostle Paul wrote to the gentiles about the "revelation of the MYSTERY, which was KEPT SECRET since the world began" (Romans 16:25) It is clear that Peter and Paul are referring to TWO DIFFERENT messages, for something cannot be "spoken" and "kept secret" at the same time. As you rightly divide the Word of truth you will come to recognize the Mystery revealed to Paul as the marching orders or mail for the church which is his body.

 

[wavy]

I am not a pastor. I just seek truth.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Yahshua Ha'Moshiach, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting Elohim, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

This is in direct contradiction to what you said.

But anyway, comment on the subject matter if you want to say anything. I swear I get personally attacked too much...

 

[Georges]

Wavy, careful with posts like that .....Personally, I'm glad to see someone take interest in the subject. I'm sure it will step on a lot of toes.

If you are curious, type a search for Christian antisemitism and you will find sites detailing the Church's decrees against the Jews in a timeline fashion. It's amazing to see the various council decisions. Little by little the devil has worked his way into Christianity so that it doesn't resemble original Christianity in the slightest.

 

[wavy]

Wavy, careful with posts like that .....Personally, I'm glad to see someone take interest in the subject. I'm sure it will step on a lot of toes.

Yeah. You're right. I'm shaking in fear of the prospect of what they might say :smt090

I should tread lightly and humbly.

 

[jpark320]

From Part I: The Early Church Fathers (click)

Judaism was declared an apostate and superseded religion and the Jews had now lost their right to exist. However, the Jews did exist and so the Church needed a reason for their continued existence. If their failure to recognize the Christ resulted in their dispersion, and if Christianity had superceded Judaism in being a "light to the gentiles", then why were the Jews around at all? The Church concluded that the reason Jews survived was to prove the truth of Christianity. They were to be around always, to be persecuted, vulnerable, wanderers on the earth without a home, as proof of God's wrath upon them. The condition of the Jews was to be a negative witness to their crime of deicide. This was the purpose of their existence. The Jews, therefore, were forever, everywhere, held collectively responsible for Yeshua’s death because they were "a wicked nation." Furthermore, the calamities that befell Jewry--the destruction of the Temple and the dispersion--were seen as having Christological import, pointing to what Christians saw as just desserts for killing Christ.

Augustine declared:

"The true image of the Hebrew is Judas Iscariot, who sells the Lord for silver. The Jew can never understand the Scriptures and forever will bear the guilt for the death of Jesus".

From Part II: The Middle Ages

[quote:75cba]Luther declared:

"Therefore know, my dear Christian, that next to the devil you have no more bitter, more poisonous, more vehement an enemy than a real Jew who earnestly desires to be a Jew.... Now what are we going to do with these rejected, condemned, Jewish people? You must refuse to let them own houses among us.... You must take away from them all their prayer books and Talmuds wherein such lying, cursing and blasphemy is taught.... You must prohibit their Rabbis to teach.... You shall not tolerate them but expel them"

From Part III: The Reformation

The Jew of the Middle Ages was depicted as stupid and abhorrent. Modern anti-Semitism portrayed the Jew as having superior intellect and a great capacity to excel. He was diabolical and cunning. The Jews were targeted as being a race of conspirators and for these new reasons, were again made the scapegoats of society. Jews were not sought out for individual crimes as any other criminal would be, but for the "crime of being Jewish". This meant total rejection of the Jew, and therefore, assimilation would never be possible. Judah Pinsker, a Haskala intellectual, stated that this anti-Semitism was "a psychological disease."

Very disturbing and enlightening.[/quote:75cba]


Hey Wavy,

I've thought about this many times also, but so did Paul. I'm sure you're aware of the passages in Romans that cover God's (not total) rejection/dealing w/ the jews. Their religion was not superseded they fell out of the true religion b4 Jesus even came. Also, the Jews will never perish b/c God promised them many things in the old testament that will come true during and after the tribulation. Also keep in mind that this is not the first time the Jews have rejected God. IT IS A CONTINUOUS CYCLE ie the whole book of Judges, many times in the desert w/ Moses, during the Northern and Southern Kingdom ages, in Jesus' time (Pharisee's and CO.), and even now. Think about this, God ended their religion effectively bye destroying the temple in 70 AD. No temple = No sacrifice = Compromised Jewish religion.

Luther:

You must remember Luther was not living in America, but was infact himself being sheltered from death. During that time Protestants were being massively slaughtered. But more importantly what were they all "Protesting" against?? Basically the Romish misinterpretation of the Bible, their traditions and their mockery of God. I'm not defending Luther, but I understand his heart to protect his flock against the blasphemy of the Talmud and other jews traditions - the things our Lord condemned the pharisees for doing.

Remember Luther didn't get all right, but his heart to keep the integrity and purity of the Word untainted can be seen in that statement [should've been a lil more loving though... :D


Reformation:

Unfortunatley, anti-Semitism is rampant, but i think its cause can hardly be applied to Christianity.

We definitely should love our neighbors, Jews, and enemies no doubt.

 

[wavy]

I'm sure you're aware of the passages in Romans that cover God's (not total) rejection/dealing w/ the jews.

No rejection at all. Not even in part. That is touched on in the first verses of that chapter.

Also, the Jews will never perish b/c God promised them many things in the old testament that will come true during and after the tribulation.

So things in the old testament do not apply to you?

Think about this, God ended their religion effectively bye destroying the temple in 70 AD. No temple = No sacrifice = Compromised Jewish religion.

I disagree. It had been destroyed before 70 C.E.

 

[TruthHunter]

Think about this, God ended their religion effectively bye destroying the temple in 70 AD. No temple = No sacrifice = Compromised Jewish religion.

The big question I have is along these lines. Yes, Jews will say that because the Temple was distroyed they can not make sacrifices, but they made Sacrifices to God BEFORE the temple was built, so why stop? It doesn't make sense to me.

Peace,
Ben

 

[Georges]

Think about this, God ended their religion effectively bye destroying the temple in 70 AD. No temple = No sacrifice = Compromised Jewish religion.

The big question I have is along these lines. Yes, Jews will say that because the Temple was distroyed they can not make sacrifices, but they made Sacrifices to God BEFORE the temple was built, so why stop? It doesn't make sense to me.

Peace,
Ben

Ben, I believe it is because of certain requirements that have to be met in regard to temple/mishkan criteria.

In other words....the Jews have to get all of their "ducks in a row" before any sacrificing can be done. Currently, they have discovered some of the Temple artifacts need, but not all. Also, in Israel they are preparing for the day that the Temple will be built, the priesthood to be re-established and sacrifices to be restarted. At this point in time (currently) they are training priests for their future duty. I think they are only waiting for the Ark to show up.....

 

[irishrain]

Think about this, God ended their religion effectively bye destroying the temple in 70 AD. No temple = No sacrifice = Compromised Jewish religion.

God destroyed Mans temple, which was poluted.

[quote:0530e]The big question I have is along these lines. Yes, Jews will say that because the Temple was distroyed they can not make sacrifices, but they made Sacrifices to God BEFORE the temple was built, so why stop? It doesn't make sense to me.

[/quote:0530e]

OK you have to think spiritually here.

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2Cr 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2Cr 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

2Cr 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Cr 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

What does GOD want today? LOVE
Hsa 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

In as much as Christ became our sacrifice for all times. Heb 10:10

Hbr 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Hbr 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;

Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

What does the LORD Want?

Deu 10:12 And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

Deu 10:13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?

 

[BenJasher]

This discussion of the truth, putting the Jews in a bad light, makes me want to play a healthy game of Mah Jong.

Martin Luther was very much anti-Jew, which is not necessarily the same as anti-semitic. This is easily proven from scripture and very volatile at the same time.

But anti-semitism, as being anti-jew has come to be known, has been a popular ideal for a very lo-o-o-ng time. Hitler just made himself famous by exploiting an idealogy that had existed in Europe for more thsan a thousand years. He was by no means an original on this point.

It wasn't until about 60 years ago that "anti-semitism" has become taboo in the United States. As a matter of fact, Henry Ford used to place copies of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion in the glove boxes of his automobiles in the early part of the last century. I have an original of one of those. He even was a weekly commentator for the Dearborn Gazette and spoke quite a bit on anti-semitism. And I had some of those as well, but they were lost in a move. Nearly priceless, and they disappeared without a trace.

Oh well! I am going to go play MAh Jong now.

 

[TruthHunter]

I would not say that i am anti-Jew. Rather i don't understand some of the ways they look at scripture. I understand that the Body is the temple of God for a Christian, but a Jew does not recognize the New Testament, and doesn't even recognize all of the Old Testament. So the point is that For a Jew sacrifices happened before the physical temple, they happened after the first temple was distroyed, they stopped after the second temple was distroyed why? God never sent another prophet by Jewish accounts to say that they could stop, and the sacrifices were what atoned for sin. So does that mean that every Jew who has died since 70 C.E. has died without the atonement of sins?

 

[Imagican]

The Jewish people will ALWAYS be God's chosen. Their religion, Judaism, is however, OVER. Christ ended this 'religion' and began a NEW Covenant with Israel and the rest of the world.

But, yes Wavy, The Catholic Church has certainly had it moments of 'Jew-bashing'. Amazing that we were taught by Christ to LOVE our enemies, yet much of what the churches of man have taught was 'just the opposite', especially when it comes to 'God's chosen people'.

And there are still those that believe that a church that has taught such hatred and animosity is the 'one true church'. WOW. And many still follow the teachings of this church that have crossed over into Protestantism.

 

[cj]

.... I think they are only waiting for the Ark to show up.....

Georges, Jesus has already shown up, but certain....... men...... of which last time I check is the category of creation to which Jews belong, won't know of the "Ark's" showing up until "at that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

To Wavy.......

You guys just don't want to get it.

Kinda like the proud leadership of the Jews back in the day.

I'm just glad my "Jewish" Lord no longer refers to me as a dog or a hog.

Amen,.... I tell you, the lengths some will go to in their attempt to prove their ways.

Praise the Lord for Paul, who in Spirit taught us that behind is dung, but in front is glory.

Those who look forward have their eyes set on glory.

In love,
cj

 

[Vic C.]

Double post.

Why edit the first one? Why not just delete the second post? :-?

 

[JM]

The Jewish people will ALWAYS be God's chosen. Their religion, Judaism, is however, OVER. Christ ended this 'religion' and began a NEW Covenant with Israel and the rest of the world.

Is the Law written on your heart? Do you follow all 613 commandments? When a Jewish believer speaks of Torah, they don't break it down to God's top 10 list, they speak of the 613!

No. The Jewish religion is placed on hold...for now...read Revelations ( :wink: right Vic) and you'll see all kinds of Jewish religious things going on.

Peace,

JM

 

[Vic C.]

... No. The Jewish religion is placed on hold...for now...read Revelations ( :wink: right Vic) and you'll see all kinds of Jewish religious things going on.

Peace,

JM

LOL!!! Don't get me started. I said I was taking a break from End Times discussions for a while, BUT... :-D

Georges, Jesus has already shown up, but certain....... men...... of which last time I check is the category of creation to which Jews belong, won't know of the "Ark's" showing up until "at that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

I found this statement of cj's to be enlightening. Take Matthew 24:30, which cj quoted; add Mat 24:29 to the statement;

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"

then compare it to Revelation 11:19

And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

I see a similarity in atmospheric events. Especially if we add 1 Thess 4:16 also.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

I hear voices and thunderings. :

 

[cj]

Double post.

Why edit the first one? Why not just delete the second post? :-?

Okay, ya got me,.... lazy.

I made a change to the original post but had clicked the submit button before noticing that something else was need, so I then clicked preview to be able to edit the post again.

I did not know it would double post.

It was easier to just do what I did than try and figure out again what I had changed and then do an edit to the original post.

Of course, if I had just done it correctly I would not be spending the time explaining this to you.


In love,
cj

 

[Asaph]

You know what? Thank God my pastor never fell for these revisionist lies. I know my Lord. No Problems. 8-)

 

[Vic C.]

Okay, ya got me,.... lazy....

... Of course, if I had just done it correctly I would not be spending the time explaining this to you.


In love,
cj

LOL :