[_ Old Earth _] this isn't clear

[peace4all]

Ok, I am sick of arguing with people that don't know what evolution is, and then try to argue against it.

PLEASE will you STOP making up your own definition of it? WIll you stop reading a creationist site as to what evolution is, and then argue it.

Plain and simple, NO EVOLUTIONIST, ANYWHERE, says that humans descended from apes/monkeys.

Common ancestors, Nothing more.

the worst way to debate, is to make up stuff about the other side, and then argue that the stuff you made up, doesnt work.

 

[Solo]

the worst way to debate, is to make up stuff about the other side, and then argue that the stuff you made up, doesnt work.

That is exactly how you debate Christianity from an Atheists perspective.

 

[peace4all]

Solo, Can you show me anywhere? where I made things up, and when called on it, didnt apologize immediately?

 

[Solo]

Solo, Can you show me anywhere? where I made things up, and when called on it, didnt apologize immediately?

well ,from an atheists view (because of course, to be a good researcher on the topic, i cant just poll the same group

1) god requires faith, because it makes an all loving god implausable, therefore, disproving god.

2) I don't know god is real, there is no proof, hence the reason I am an atheist.

3) please don't kick me for this, I already got a warning earlier this weekend for "Provoking an argument" or something, It didnt make much sense but whateever..

I am just saying, How the atheist sees these questions and would answer them. IF you don't like it, Listen to jesus, and turn the other cheek? (or most liekly just ban me because, that is closer to what Jesus would do right?)

Please not the treaty of tripoli.

2ndly note.

the "creator" was included in the declaration/constitution, because, at the time, 99% believed in god.

"free man" or "free men" etc, were also included, because, at the time, slavery was 99% acceptable.



Overtime, we have realized that, although the bible supports it, slavery is wrong, and evil.

When willl we realize that forcing people to follow rules laid down by a particular religion, infringes upon our right to practice the religion of our choice?

Not until the repubs are out of office.

One christian says, Follow in teh path of jesus

Jesus said "turn thy cheek towards thy enemy"

so, to follow him, you would have to , turn the cheek right?

What exactly is the context that jesus was saying? Don't judge others unless you are free of sin? right? I mean, surely, ending someones life is performing the ULTIMATE judgment, that solely God is supposed to control right?

Usually when this topic shifts into the "does god promote killing " thing, some people say "no, god is peacful, blessed are the peacemakers, etc"

others say "no, watch how god helped this person destroy this city, see here where it says you should burn atheists, witches, and any town where atheists reside, and look, God is cool with having babies thrown onto the rocks to die."

Christians can't even agree wether God supports violence or not. Surely God has rules against suicide, But, the liklihood of ever needing a gun to protect yourself, is slim, and, what, if you get shot, then thats what? your fault? or isnt that "god works in mysterious ways?" or, is that suicide, because then you could have had a gun to shoot them instead, wait, isnt that murder? and wait, isnt driving a car, with the possibility of getting in a crash suicide, cuz it might happen?

Where is the line?

i find the turn the other cheek passage

dont toss stones unless your sinless etc..

wait, there is some about killing people in that whole section where you have to kill non christians, witches, sinners, gays, and dash babies on the rocks. I remember now right?


again, who says u need a gun for self defense?

Who says you dont need grenades or a cruise missle?

it has long been known that christianity "borrows" things from other cultures. Thats what all religions do. All of them, share similarities, because humans all make up the same kind of things. captains are often heroes, or believed to be amazing when they get lucky. etc. So there are tons of religions and groups that have ppl almost EXACTLY the same as christian principles, however, some came BEFORE christianity, others came after.

it is a plain fact, religions are like open source software.

a fundamental christian that is a biologist is a joke. because theyn they arent studying or learning or anything. sigh....

you know what it is?

I am goign to go an dget a PHD in religous studies ( a legal one, from a real university unliek alot of those crackpots out there) and then, I will after "years" of research and study in believing in Christ, will say its all a hoax, a lie, and that people have been deceived.

People will believe me then right?

heres the problem

evolutionists state that evolution occurs over tens of thousands of years, if not more.

creationists just refuse to believe it, because they still don't believe the earth is any older than 6000 years.

creationists want to see an iquana give birth to a pelican, and it WON'T happen in our lifetime, our childrens lifetime, or a long time after. Hence the reason we rely on the fossil record

Heidi, I see no reason why you should EVER debate. your mind is closed. Wether it is right or wrong you refuse to even acknowledge anything.
Of course evolutionary theories and such change, as humans are able to discover more, we improve ideas, or fix them.

When religion is wrong, it is "ohh, well, that must be a mis translation. Ooops, that umm, that part of the bible doesnt count anymore, or umm, ya. God can do mircales, so their is no reason to explain, it is God's will that humans remain ignorant."

yes, all the churches around (except for the 2 more liberaql cooler churches that I have gone to youth groups hat) always have their boards say "vote for Bush this year, not the devil"

I actually am enjoying this newere "breed" of christians.

I see that 99% of my friends that are religous, are either solely believing in a "higher power" but not nescessarilly Christ, Jesus, Budha, Allah, etc.. thats baout 11%.

75% seem to be the "Sure, I believe in Jesus, I Believe the bible is a very metaphorical book, that, instead of saying "I made an ark, tossed animals on it etc" it is telling an underlying story, that otherwise would be boring. A story that, If you try hard to succeed and do good, you will be grace d(or something to that point)

the other 6% are the ones Im not really "friends" with, just acquaintances. They are really hardcore "God this, Jesus that" but they don't really act like, "Christians"

I AM NOT TRYING TO POINT FINGERS HERE, BUT THIS IS THE BEST EXAMPLE I CAN COME UP WITH

those 6% seem to be people here like Antitox, and a Bibleberran (but more annoying)
the 75% are more like stovebolts, sometimes like Lyrics Dad, and a few of the other christians I have met
the 11% are like soma-sight..

I think religion should be as my 75% of friends keep it, a more private kind of thing. They aren't going to let religion make them hate people, or treat people bad.

This may be a little biased, because I hang around peopel that are mostly open minded, liberalistic, Hippie like. I do have my super conservative friends, but. ya.


Personally, It is my belief that our nation doesn't need the super fundamentalism that it sometimes has, But it needs the personal religion. People that tend to be more fundamental, tend to go off and begin to preach hate and become problematic, and make christianity look unappealing.

You know. its weird.

I think this is the FIRST thread, I have ever started, where, I have had people go out of their way, to be overly nice, to try to explain in a sensible, fair way, that can, while not agree with my statements, respect them..

DId that glitch in the forums like, kick out the usual members that moan and groan at everything I say?

This is unexpected and really cool.

and thanks to this forum, I have realized slowly that, "Christianity" in america, TRUE Christianity, is about as equal as atheism it seems. only about 2/10 people that I run into that say they are christians, are actually christians, and follow Christ, and Follow God, etc.. The rest just hide behind the fact that they might go to church occasionally, or that they read and interpret a few verses of the bible... If only that huge amount of "christians" could either BECOME Chrisitians, or drop their shennanigans, I don't think America would have really, any disputes about religion in public or anywhere, becuase it wouldn't be a problem.

umm. you failed to miss the big point here.

Christianity has always been a religion that pokes and steals from others. HTis is just showing that most likely, the moses sotry, was apalonius, and that other stories were other people, but they were changed and added to christianity....

yes, but look, here is my point. you are saying that its ok, because they still believe in THE ONE TRUE GOD.. but to them, your ok, becuase you still believe in THE ONE TRUE GOD.. however, the 2 gods are diffrent.

what makes your god the ONE TRUE GOD over the other god or gods? the bible? well, then wouldn't their writings etc be the equivalant and make theirs just as probable?

that is what I am sort of getting at here.


and yes, they still had wars, and still had criminals, However they were much better off before we came... (atleast in my opinion because they were not unfairly robbed, deceived, and killed with disease)

yes, but look, here is my point. you are saying that its ok, because they still believe in THE ONE TRUE GOD.. but to them, your ok, becuase you still believe in THE ONE TRUE GOD.. however, the 2 gods are diffrent.

what makes your god the ONE TRUE GOD over the other god or gods? the bible? well, then wouldn't their writings etc be the equivalant and make theirs just as probable?

that is what I am sort of getting at here.


and yes, they still had wars, and still had criminals, However they were much better off before we came... (atleast in my opinion because they were not unfairly robbed, deceived, and killed with disease)

(To be continued...........Only 99 pages to go)

 

[ArtGuy]

well ,from an atheists view (because of course, to be a good researcher on the topic, i cant just poll the same group

1) god requires faith, because it makes an all loving god implausable, therefore, disproving god.

2) I don't know god is real, there is no proof, hence the reason I am an atheist.

3) please don't kick me for this, I already got a warning earlier this weekend for "Provoking an argument" or something, It didnt make much sense but whateever..

I am just saying, How the atheist sees these questions and would answer them. IF you don't like it, Listen to jesus, and turn the other cheek? (or most liekly just ban me because, that is closer to what Jesus would do right?)

I'll just address this because I'm too lazy to speak to the rest of the laundry list.

But... peace4all is pretty much spot on, there. Religion requires faith. You can't prove God, you can't prove Christ, but the point is that you don't have to. You can use reason to get you part of the way there, but past a certain point you have to just trust in what your heart tells you. You have to choose to believe. A religion without faith would be as soulless and empty as a sandwich without the tangy zip of Miracle Whip.

Atheists don't like that. They figure that if something can't be proven, it's not worth believing in. Is an all-loving God implausible? Perhaps. But implausible doesn't mean impossible. All manner of implausible things are seen to happen. You simply must have faith.

Really, anyone claiming that there exists proof of God grossly misunderstands the Bible, and completely misses the point.

 

[peace4all]

umm, I dont see 1 single spot, where I made up ANYTHING about christianity.. Everything that I have stated, has scripture proof, or has been a direct observation of mine (i guess your write, Instead of iquana to pelican, most creationists say Ape to moneky, or "dog to cat" but same idea) The thing about me seeing billboards at churches saying "vote for bush, and be saved" and things like that, Happened, it was in the news, read it.

I do not make things up about christianity. Doing that would be " Hey, can you name all 24 apostles? nope cant! ha! therefore christianity is wrong" (obviosly we know there wenrt 24 apostles, I made that up)

Please try again.

 

[ArtGuy]

I do not make things up about christianity. Doing that would be " Hey, can you name all 24 apostles? nope cant! ha! therefore christianity is wrong" (obviosly we know there wenrt 24 apostles, I made that up)

Wait, does he count?