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[_ Old Earth _] Thought about the Beginning

Conservation of energy implies that in an isolated system energy can be neither created nor destroyed, although it can be changed from one form (mechanical, kinetic, chemical, etc.) into another. In an isolated system the sum of all forms of energy therefore remains constant.So, the total quantity of energy in an isolated system does not change, though it may change form. In physics then, it is said "the total quantity of the property governed by that law remains unchanged during physical processes."


Therefore, as Planck demonstrates, a consequence of the law is that a perpetual motion machine of the first kind cannot exist (that is a system or machine which produces work/motion without the input of energy).

That is to say, no system without an external energy supply can deliver an unlimited amount of energy to its surroundings. (See Max. Planck’s, Treatise on Thermodynamics, third English edition translated by A. Ogg from the seventh German edition, Longmans, Green & Co., London, page 40). Such a thing is unimaginable in Physics, and is said to be an epistemic impossibility.


To me this is indicative of Aristotle’s concept of “prime mover”. Nothing can move without something that moved it. He was addressing a physical observation (not a spiritual speculation) in that movement not only meant something travelling in some direction, but also change, growth, melting, cooling, and so on. He argues back to something which moves it but of itself is itself unmoved, i.e., a necessary first source(s) of all movement.


It is theorized that the original motion of the mass/energy (which allegedly has never changed only transformed) which became the planets, stars, etc., is an expected reality (though we have yet to prove it absolutely). However if Planck and Aristotle are correct, then can't it be logically deduced that the origin of the Universe also required the “input” of a force not of the Universe.


I realize this is simplified but any thoughts?
 
As in God calling it into existence? It seems even the big bang would require some other physical force for initiation.
 
I struggle with the concept that the Big Bang just happened.
I believe like WIP that something was the stimulus.
I think God was the instigator to this magnificent event.
We should be proud to confess this to scientists, it is demonstrably fine as Chritians to express our beliefs.
Some things science is too young to understand.
 
Who knows? If God chose to make meta-physics (not metaphysics) that would then initiate the universe, would it be less acceptable than if He just initiated the Big Bang directly?

I don't see much of a difference.
 
I struggle with the concept that the Big Bang just happened.
.

Perhaps look at it like this. When Jesus fed 5,000 people with a few fish and loaves of bread, how did these items just materialize out of thin air? Just like that, that's how....no Big Bang.... no thunder, just fish after fish after fish until all were full.

He created everything probably the very same way.

Simple.

*poof*

Matthew 14:13-21New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Five Thousand Fed
13 Now when Jesus heard about John, He withdrew from there in a boat to a secluded place by Himself; and when the [a]people heard of this, they followed Him on foot from the cities. 14 When He went [b]ashore, He saw a large crowd, and felt compassion for them and healed their sick.

15 When it was evening, the disciples came to Him and said, “This place is desolate and the hour is already [c]late; so send the crowds away, that they may go into the villages and buy food for themselves.” 16 But Jesus said to them, “They do not need to go away; you give them something to eat!” 17 They *said to Him, “We have here only five loaves and two fish.” 18 And He said, “Bring them here to Me.” 19 Ordering the [d]people to [e]sit down on the grass, He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up toward heaven, He blessed the food, and breaking the loaves He gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds, 20 and they all ate and were satisfied. They picked up what was left over of the broken pieces, twelve full baskets. 21 There were about five thousand men who ate, besides women and children.
 
Perhaps look at it like this. When Jesus fed 5,000 people with a few fish and loaves of bread, how did these items just materialize out of thin air? Just like that, that's how....no Big Bang.... no thunder, just fish after fish after fish until all were full.

He created everything probably the very same way.

Simple.

*poof*

Matthew 14:13-21New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Five Thousand Fed
13 Now when Jesus heard about John, He withdrew from there in a boat to a secluded place by Himself; and when the [a]people heard of this, they followed Him on foot from the cities. 14 When He went [b]ashore, He saw a large crowd, and felt compassion for them and healed their sick.

15 When it was evening, the disciples came to Him and said, “This place is desolate and the hour is already [c]late; so send the crowds away, that they may go into the villages and buy food for themselves.” 16 But Jesus said to them, “They do not need to go away; you give them something to eat!” 17 They *said to Him, “We have here only five loaves and two fish.” 18 And He said, “Bring them here to Me.” 19 Ordering the [d]people to [e]sit down on the grass, He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up toward heaven, He blessed the food, and breaking the loaves He gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds, 20 and they all ate and were satisfied. They picked up what was left over of the broken pieces, twelve full baskets. 21 There were about five thousand men who ate, besides women and children.
Thank you, I think you may have slightly misunderstood my statement, however I invite you to correct me if I'm wrong.
I was trying to portray that I doubt the Big Bang just happened without a grand architect.
 
Thank you, I think you may have slightly misunderstood my statement, however I invite you to correct me if I'm wrong.
I was trying to portray that I doubt the Big Bang just happened without a grand architect.


My mistake, sorry friend. I agree. I don't have a problem with the Big Bang as Gods mechanism for creation. He was definitely behind it. *poof*
 
Thank you, I think you may have slightly misunderstood my statement, however I invite you to correct me if I'm wrong.
I was trying to portray that I doubt the Big Bang just happened without a grand architect.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

tob
 
My mistake, sorry friend. I agree. I don't have a problem with the Big Bang as Gods mechanism for creation. He was definitely behind it. *poof*
You don't need to apologise Paloma.
I like that "poof", this is like a magician and his rabbit in the hat trick but on a much larger scale - obviously it isn't deception like magicians use against us.
 
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