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Thoughts on Joel Osteen

Free said:
So you think that churches that perform gay marriages aren't Christian and you acknowledge that a gay marriage is a celebration of sin, but you don't think it is hypocritical to attend, joining in that celebration?
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Free said:
the question is would you knowingly and willingly attend such weddings?
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Free
I know that you are speaking from a moral high ground. And I trust that you have heard my say so I'm done with that part. It's okay if we don't see things perfectly eye to eye. How could it be any other way?

But there was one other thing that I wanted to mention, but it was NOT about attending or not attending on moral grounds and I'm not at all, not even for a second saying, "Git off yer high horse, buddy," either because it's very difficult to type things well and if I could just say it out, I'd say that I respect you and your opinion way to much for that. I've said it before. Yours is one of the better well-thought-out opinions that I listen to. That's high praise, coming from me. You've never heard me say that to anybody else. But...

Yeah, there's that three (3) letter word. But...

But there is something else to consider. We are walking into a trap. You've heard that you can not trap a bird when you place that trap while the bird is watching?

The Enticement of Sin (Proverbs 1:16-17;18)
…For their feet run to evil And they hasten to shed blood. Indeed, it is useless to spread the baited net In the sight of any bird; But they lie in wait for their own blood; They ambush their own lives.…​

Well, there is a trap being set. Listen to the bird here. Here's the baited trap: They want Christians to openly declare, "I ain't gonna go and you can't make me! I stand on the ground that Christ has delivered to me, it is not sand!"

But that's what they want. Because we no longer honor God with our law. They won that. Now for the one-two punch whammy-gammy for the Grammy Award, right? If they can provoke Christians into speaking foolishly against their right to love each other (so called)? Then they can play to the sympathies of their supportive (and deceived) audience.

"MOMMY! Mommy! Them dirty christians are touching me," or so saith The Accuser through them, "They are touching me and you told them not to do that," they will yell to SCOTUS and to anybody and everybody who listens to drivel like that... A word to the wise... A single word. Be wise. That's what I say.


smaller said:
I've sat under the best of the 'name it and claim it' crowd. Had their blessings heaped upon me, particularly so when I had my checkbook in hand.
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I remember when a hairy Karishna girl, or was that a hare krishna woman? Doesn't matter. I remember when she *winked* and was all flirty (when I was a young man and the target of such things) and she said that I could chant to get anything, ANYTHING, that I wanted *wink-wink,* and *nudge-nudge*... all smiling and sexy like...

And I took the bait and replied, almost googly eyed, "ORLY? I could have 'Anything'??" And I too began the well known flirtatious dance. I stood just a bit taller and a little bit closer and I didn't shy from her at all when she moved in for the kill, "Yes, anything," she whispered in a overly blatant manner. She didn't know to turn her eyes down as a man looked at her with such intensity. Haughty woman that she was.

"But," I told her, "I already know how to chant that can be used for Self-Realization."
"Do You?" she prompted, clearly ready for me to take the lead.
"For self realization?" She repeated. "No, I don't know the chant for that."

SO I immediately told her, "Say after me, faster and faster..." ...and she began repeating every word.

"Oh-waa!
Ta-goo!
Sigh-am...​

Oh-waa!
Ta-goo!
Sigh-am..."​

Chant for self realization (if you need to and if you wanna, that is) and you can also believe the lie of the hairy karishna girl who flirted and promised "anything you want," winky-wink, if you want. She was older than me back then. Probably like a granny now. But believe what you want to, is my point. But just don't be stupid about it.
 
For me, it boils down to it being more important to me that my actions do not alienate a segment of the people Jesus came to save, just because I want to make a statement declaring how arrogantly "righteous" I think I am.

"If you judge them, they will run. If you love them, they will come."
 
Jethro Bodine said:
"6 he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully." (2 Corinthians 9:6 NASB)
So who is lying, God or Paul?

Just because some read this verse with greedy, covetous desire, does that make it not true?
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Why do you read that scripture and see a $bill inserted therein when there isn't one? You want this to apply to money and the big multiple returns, yet on the other side, it is not mere lack of money, but sin and death.

Materialize both sides if you want to be consistent, and say that Gods blessings are shown upon the people who have money and God is not with or the advocate of the poor, evidenced by their lack of same. Even further, IF we want to be consistent in these matters, then the goal IS monetary equality amongst the believers. Paul evidences this as well, citing the O.T. manna gathering, where those who gathered little had enough, and those who gathered much had theirs reduced down.

2 Cor. 8:
14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack.

Simple monetary economics dictate that if you have the same amount as the other, there is no personal increase, as it is to be dispensed, and therefore your supposed personal "seed" holdings are NOT to the goal of personal increase. And yeah, this does make Paul and his Gospel "liberal" and "equal democracy" in this sense. You'll also find this to be a "hard sell" to those with money, who work/worked hard to gain, while the lazy and stupid are beneficiaries to equality in money.

I think you might find, in the long run, that this is a false Gospel, this notion that God in Christ is gonna give ME my mercedes benz or color teevee if "I" give money. I don't say this out of surface quotients, but many many long years of trouble and contemplation of these matters, reasoning with The Word of God in my own life, because I've had to deal with the very real ills and troubles that came with both excess money and lack of same.

God's blessings are not monitored by observing your checkbook balance, increased or decreased.
 
I just got through watching a sermon by Olsteen because he just happened to be on as I was flipping through the channels. This particular sermon was about not remembering what God has forgotten and I will have to admit that it was pretty good, I didn't hear him say anything heritcal or anything like that.
 
jeff77 said:
I just got through watching a sermon by Olsteen because he just happened to be on as I was flipping through the channels. This particular sermon was about not remembering what God has forgotten and I will have to admit that it was pretty good, I didn't hear him say anything heritcal or anything like that.
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He is not the monster most here seem to want him to be. He just does as he says he believes he was called to do.
They want him to breath fire and to condemn people, and he just doesn't feel that is what God called him to do.
 
Willie T said:
The problem here is that every homosexual you know is probably a "practicing" homosexual.... so, do you, then, start shunning them all?
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I don't think this is necessarily true any more than every heterosexual is a practicing heterosexual as in someone that chooses a life of celibacy.
 
Come on smaller.
smaller said:
this is a false Gospel, this notion that God in Christ is gonna give ME my mercedes benz or color teevee if "I" give money.
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Why are you only capable of reading 2 Corinthians 9:6 NASB according to the distorted understanding of it as summarized in your quote above?

That's the problem most Christians have with the prosperity gospel: They let greedy, covetous creeps define it for them. And since this is a Joel Osteen thread, I've never heard him define it that way. Never. His sermons are full of talk about hard work, suffering, patience, and walking in the fruit of the Spirit, which, honestly, most Christians it seems don't seem to do and are actually quite oblivious to.

It seems most Christians I talk to don't even know what the last thing--the fruit of the Spirit--actually means and how it is the very core of our relationship with God. It is the obedience that is required to enter into the manifest spiritual and material blessings of our relationship with Christ--just as it was illustrated for us in the lives of the ancient Isrealites who could not enter into, and stay in, the Land of God's promised abundance unless they were obedient and remained obedient. And that is the prosperity gospel that Joel teaches. He does not teach that you sit on the couch, believing, busy writing checks to his ministry, and a Mercedes Benz will show up in the driveway. Not even close.
 
Why would any believer in their right mind, give money to Joel Olsteen, so he can have a bigger mansion?

Does that even make sense?
 
smaller said:
Matthew 6:19
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
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Right. FOR YOURSELF, as in an insecure love of the world. Don't do that.

But if you want to argue the point some more you start by listing all the things you have stored up for yourself like you car, your house, your refrigerator full of food, you 401K......and how you chose the quality and quantity of each of those things.

Obviously, Christ is not talking about taking care of yourself. You're deviating away from the scripture I posted. Was God or Paul lying when it was written that if you sow liberally you'll reap liberally? Yes, or no?
 
smaller said:
Why would any believer in their right mind, give money to Joel Olsteen, so he can have a bigger mansion?

Does that even make sense?
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How 'bout so he can continue to teach the message of hard work, patience, and finding the joy of the Lord in this life? Or doesn't your theology allow you to actually enjoy yourself in this life? I'm sad for you if it does not. But don't rob the rest of us of that promise of God just because you can't believe it!
 
Jethro Bodine said:
How 'bout so he can continue to teach the message of hard work, patience, and finding the joy of the Lord in this life?
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Ah, yes. Joel does need a fleet of jets and a series of huge mansions, so that the message of the Gospel can go forth! After all, without money, there can be no Gospel.

What a crock.
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Since Joel is being discussed here, I decided to tune in today. (cause he is on somewhere everyday) He never talks about the situation happening as literal. That is a major problem!

1 John 4:1-3 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

It would be like anyone of us living our lives and someone who was with us our entire lives writes a biography (gospels). Then, someone who wants to teach what it says in our biography doesn't acknowledge that what really happened in our biography, happened........they want to teach it from their perspective and what they can relate to.

This is what disturbs me about Joel's ministry.
 
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