Tobacco

[elijah23]

I think we’ll find that when we develop a personal relationship with the Lord, he doesn’t want us to use tobacco.

 

[Danus]

Not that I would advocate tobacco use, but why would the Lord not want us to use it? How is it clear that tobacco is off limits? He's not said this in the bible that I know of.

 

[Hitch]

Chapter and verse please.

Fair warning, since there is no passage containing the specifics you need I'll substitute RED MEAT in every case you bring up.

Good luck.

 

[Sparkey]

Without resorting to "Red Meat" I will be happy to join the conversation that the OP mentioned, by citing myself as an "expert" (on myself). Introspection does not include Biblical chapter and verse but it is my allegation that God is not limited to what was penned by holy men of ages past when communicating with His children today. Now some may rush to say that this view is fraught with danger and this is exactly how false doctrine creeps in, but to that I say, "Keep it simple," and "Trust God."

While in prayer about 20 years ago (for instance) I came to understand that God wanted me to quit smoking. The reason was simple: I would be happier if I quit.

So then, let's avoid the whole "It ain't true unless it can be proven through a series of complex doctrinal arguments," thing and just admit to ourselves and others that smoking ciggies ain't in our best interest. Right? That is exactly what I heard the OP say when he/she wrote, "personal relationship with the Lord" -- not impersonal lawyer intrepretation of the written (more sure) word of God but the sure (and intuitive) fact that our Father in Heaven is good and wants only good things for His kids.

 

[Danus]

Without resorting to "Red Meat" I will be happy to join the conversation that the OP mentioned, by citing myself as an "expert" (on myself). Introspection does not include Biblical chapter and verse but it is my allegation that God is not limited to what was penned by holy men of ages past when communicating with His children today. Now some may rush to say that this view is fraught with danger and this is exactly how false doctrine creeps in, but to that I say, "Keep it simple," and "Trust God."

While in prayer about 20 years ago (for instance) I came to understand that God wanted me to quit smoking. The reason was simple: I would be happier if I quit.

So then, let's avoid the whole "It ain't true unless it can be proven through a series of complex doctrinal arguments," thing and just admit to ourselves and others that smoking ciggies ain't in our best interest. Right? That is exactly what I heard the OP say when he/she wrote, "personal relationship with the Lord" -- not impersonal lawyer intrepretation of the written (more sure) word of God but the sure (and intuitive) fact that our Father in Heaven is good and wants only good things for His kids.

Well then, wouldn't it have been more prudent for the OP to have limited that to themselves rather than suggest that's the case with all? It read "WE" find to imply all Christians.

It should have read. "I have found in my personal relationship with the Lord, he doesn’t want me to use tobacco.".....The OP said "US"

 

[Sparkey]

Well then, wouldn't it have been more prudent for the OP to have limited that to themselves rather than suggest that's the case with all? It read "WE" find to imply all Christians.

It should have read. "I have found in my personal relationship with the Lord, he doesn’t want me to use tobacco.".....The OP said "US"

Yeah, he did. The OP did say "we". I checked and it's true enough. Personally I don't mind and would agree that God doesn't want any harm to come to any of His children. Seems simple to me in the light of what we know today about tobacco that the general statement is true enough for all mankind.

Have you tried the new bread yet? It's called "Dave's Killer Bread," and I'm eating a piece even as I write. The slogan on the label doesn't say "Organic" but says, "Just say no to bread on drugs!" Dave doesn't need to quote the Bible in order to substantiate his implied statement that drugs (regardless of the delivery method) can and do have harmful effect.

Do I need to quote Scripture showing that Jesus is the Bread of Life in order to support my thought that God doesn't want us to hurt ourselves? I think no. Do we need to dig deeply into Paul's dissertation about red meat in order to say that drugs (by definition) have harmful effect?

Why do you pretend this is complicated stuff? The OP expressed his thought. It was HIS thought. He said, "I think we'll find..."

 

[Danus]

Yeah, he did. The OP did say "we". I checked and it's true enough. Personally I don't mind and would agree that God doesn't want any harm to come to any of His children. Seems simple to me in the light of what we know today about tobacco that the general statement is true enough for all mankind.

Have you tried the new bread yet? It's called "Dave's Killer Bread," and I'm eating a piece even as I write. The slogan on the label doesn't say "Organic" but says, "Just say no to bread on drugs!" Dave doesn't need to quote the Bible in order to substantiate his implied statement that drugs (regardless of the delivery method) can and do have harmful effect.

Do I need to quote Scripture showing that Jesus is the Bread of Life in order to support my thought that God doesn't want us to hurt ourselves? I think no. Do we need to dig deeply into Paul's dissertation about red meat in order to say that drugs (by definition) have harmful effect?

Why do you pretend this is complicated stuff? The OP expressed his thought. It was HIS thought. He said, "I think we'll find..."

I think we can make that logical inference that God would have our best interest at heart as far as our health. We are stuarts of our bodies and all.

Let's take this up a notch.

So smoking is more harmful that not. What about Christians who smoke? Are they Christian? Do they have less of a relationship with God? Are they more or less Christian then those Christians who don't smoke?

 

[Sparkey]

I think we can make that logical inference that God would have our best interest at heart as far as our health. We are stuarts of our bodies and all.

Let's take this up a notch.

So smoking is more harmful that not. What about Christians who smoke? Are they Christian? Do they have less of a relationship with God? Are they more or less Christian then those Christians who don't smoke?

The ladder of dis-ambiguity has rungs upon which I shall not climb:
(Jam 4:11 KJV) - "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."

You may refer to a congruent thought in my post found in the Apologetics section in order to further glean where I stand on this: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=39307&p=586371&viewfull=1#post586371

 

[Danus]

The ladder of dis-ambiguity has rungs upon which I shall not climb:
(Jam 4:11 KJV) - "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."

You may refer to a congruent thought in my post found in the Apologetics section in order to further glean where I stand on this: http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=39307&p=586371&viewfull=1#post586371

Agree, but this is the A&T section. The OP sounded as if to have a tone of Judgment to it.

"I think we’ll find that when we develop a personal relationship with the Lord, he doesn’t want us to use tobacco. "

 

[Hitch]

Without resorting to "Red Meat" I will be happy to join the conversation that the OP mentioned, by citing myself as an "expert" (on myself). Introspection does not include Biblical chapter and verse but it is my allegation that God is not limited to what was penned by holy men of ages past when communicating with His children today. Now some may rush to say that this view is fraught with danger and this is exactly how false doctrine creeps in, but to that I say, "Keep it simple," and "Trust God."

While in prayer about 20 years ago (for instance) I came to understand that God wanted me to quit smoking. The reason was simple: I would be happier if I quit.

So then, let's avoid the whole "It ain't true unless it can be proven through a series of complex doctrinal arguments," thing and just admit to ourselves and others that smoking ciggies ain't in our best interest. Right? That is exactly what I heard the OP say when he/she wrote, "personal relationship with the Lord" -- not impersonal lawyer intrepretation of the written (more sure) word of God but the sure (and intuitive) fact that our Father in Heaven is good and wants only good things for His kids.

So then, let's avoid the whole "It ain't true unless it can be proven through a series of complex doctrinal arguments," thing and just admit to ourselves and others that eating red meat ain't in our best interest. Right? That is exactly what I heard the OP say when he/she wrote, "personal relationship with the Lord" -- not impersonal lawyer intrepretation of the written (more sure) word of God but the sure (and intuitive) fact that our Father in Heaven is good and wants only good things for His kids.

Works pretty well, I reckon.

 

[jasoncran]

so coughing up ones lunges and death from its effect makes one closer to god?

hmm, while not salvinic but it doesnt make sense and even the in healing promise types amongst the pentacostal this is preached against and also obesity. dont ask god to heal you of a hear attack if you dont want to change your diet and or habits that lead to that(as it will occur again) makes sense.

i struggle with too much sodas. in moderation those are ok but it has caused issues with my weight before.and the army doesnt like that

 

[Danus]

so coughing up ones lunges and death from its effect makes one closer to god?

hmm, while not salvinic but it doesnt make sense and even the in healing promise types amongst the pentacostal this is preached against and also obesity. dont ask god to heal you of a hear attack if you dont want to change your diet and or habits that lead to that(as it will occur again) makes sense.

i struggle with too much sodas. in moderation those are ok but it has caused issues with my weight before.and the army doesnt like that

I gathered from the OP, that it's the opposit. That not smoking, or using tobacco makes one closer to God, since that's what God wants from us. Us being those with a personal relationship with God. Thoses that smoke or use tobacco have not developed a very personal relationshipd with God. I'll repast the OP......

"I think we’ll find that when we develop a personal relationship with the Lord, he doesn’t want us to use tobacco. "

Pretty clear from this that those who have a personal relationship with God...they have developed this, on their own I supose, they don't use tobacco. Why? because God does not want them to. Anyone with a personal relationship with God, a relationship which they have developed, Knows this.....All others don't, but once they do, they will know this. ...however, this is just a theory since the OP says "I think". So, we can't prove this anyway. It's just a thought.

 

[jasoncran]

i fully understand that danus. i could say the same with secular music.however,given that i find it odd one doesnt see that god doesnt want us to be good stewards with our money and bodies.

does it make sense if one cant give because ones health is poor? i think so.

 

[Danus]

i fully understand that danus. i could say the same with secular music.however,given that i find it odd one doesnt see that god doesnt want us to be good stewards with our money and bodies.

does it make sense if one cant give because ones health is poor? i think so.

So what have we learned here
Romans 3:23
New International Version (NIV)
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Unless someone would like to suggest a more correct relationship with God that might nullify Paul's words to early Christians, I'd say this is a wrap.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Chapter and verse please.

Fair warning, since there is no passage containing the specifics you need I'll substitute RED MEAT in every case you bring up.

Good luck.

Simple: Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Anybody who doesn't think that nicotine isn't a "god" to a smoker never was hooked. it's been 43 years since I last lit up, and I'm still a smoker - that didn't light up today - again.

 

[felix]

Neither tobacco nor drugs that goes into a body defiles a person. But the very desire to satisfy the flesh to use them which comes out of a man's heart defiles him.

(Mark 7:18-23) So He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, [thus] purifying all foods?" And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man."

 

[Jam]

Simple: Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Anybody who doesn't think that nicotine isn't a "god" to a smoker never was hooked. it's been 43 years since I last lit up, and I'm still a smoker - that didn't light up today - again.

This is a good point, but I don't think the Exodus quotation is quite appropriate: as far as I'm aware, the Hebrew term for "god" doesn't share the ambiguity of the English translation, and I think it's fairly clear that the command is referring to other "deity".

But yes, a smoker almost necessarily lacks self-control I think. They allow (for want of a better word) the nicotine to be their master... but then I suspect that the majority of the population is also addicted to caffeine to some degree, and most of us never consider this.

 

[Sparkey]

Neither tobacco nor drugs that goes into a body defiles a person. But the very desire to satisfy the flesh to use them which comes out of a man's heart defiles him.

(Mark 7:18-23) So He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, [thus] purifying all foods?" And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man."

I had a desire to satisify the flesh this very morning, in other words -- I was hungry. So I ate breakfast and the desire was abated. There were 13 things that Jesus spoke of that come from the heart of man and defile (although I don't think He meant the list to be exhaustive). Of those 13, "Foolishness" might be used to describe a smoker but this isn't the primary meaning of the term.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

bondage -

"I don't think the Exodus quotation is quite appropriate"

That's O.K. I think it's perfectly appropriate. A "god" is whatever/whomever you SERVE. And I Worshipped/Served the "Tobacco god" for over a decade with a dedication, and dogged commitment greater even than I do often for the ONE GOD. Addictions are like that. NOTHING else matters except the next "Fix".

Some folks are like that about Gambling, or Alcohol, or Cocaine, or their Automobile.

Alcohol has no "Hold" on me, and I can consume it without issue (except for the "Testimony" consideration).

Addictions are DEFINITLY "gods". Right now I'm struggling with FOOD - 50 pounds overweight, and already on Insulin.

 

[Chan]

I take a Romans 14 view on tobacco and caffeine.