Too contraversial for some here.

[LovethroughDove]

If I would've listened to the world-view of Jesus, I never would have really got to know him. I went to the words he spoke and fell in love with him.

 

[Willie T]

edited reba

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'm not sure what I think, but I think this makes some good points. While Scripture is the final authority, it's so easily twisted by people. Seems that the only way to be sure you have the right interpretation is to be guided by the Holy Spirit. But then, people say they're guided by the Holy Spirit all the time, and look at all the contradictory thins said and done under that claim. I've come to the conclusion that understanding Scripture is largely a personal journey.

Sometimes I wonder if God did that intentionally. If you didn't need the Holy Spirit's guidance, then there would be less need or desire to form a personal relationship with God. You would be more tempted to shove your knowledge of Scripture in people's faces, and understanding the Scriptures would be more a thing of pride than it already is with some.

 

[jasonc]

.

I'm not sure what I think, but I think this makes some good points. While Scripture is the final authority, it's so easily twisted by people. Seems that the only way to be sure you have the right interpretation is to be guided by the Holy Spirit. But then, people say they're guided by the Holy Spirit all the time, and look at all the contradictory thins said and done under that claim. I've come to the conclusion that understanding Scripture is largely a personal journey.

Sometimes I wonder if God did that intentionally. If you didn't need the Holy Spirit's guidance, then there would be less need or desire to form a personal relationship with God. You would be more tempted to shove your knowledge of Scripture in people's faces, and understanding the Scriptures would be more a thing of pride than it already is with some.

that is what I wanted to say, yea, what she said. I thought God told me this end time view was right then years later im nothing close to that. or any other view I had that isn't essential.

 

[Willie T]

I'm not sure what I think, but I think this makes some good points. While Scripture is the final authority, it's so easily twisted by people. Seems that the only way to be sure you have the right interpretation is to be guided by the Holy Spirit. But then, people say they're guided by the Holy Spirit all the time, and look at all the contradictory thins said and done under that claim. I've come to the conclusion that understanding Scripture is largely a personal journey.

Sometimes I wonder if God did that intentionally. If you didn't need the Holy Spirit's guidance, then there would be less need or desire to form a personal relationship with God. You would be more tempted to shove your knowledge of Scripture in people's faces, and understanding the Scriptures would be more a thing of pride than it already is with some.

Amen, amen, and three more Amens!

 

[Willie T]

.


that is what I wanted to say, yea, what she said. I thought God told me this end time view was right then years later im nothing close to that. or any other view I had that isn't essential.

I think we need to be very wary of the man who says he knows all about God.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I love these debates.
You are all wonderful beyond words (no joking here).

 

[Malachi]

You really gotta quit smokin' dat stuff, Mal.

Willie,
If you agree with what I am saying, post "Amen". If not, kindly edify us all with Scripture to refute what I have stated. I (and I'm sure others) would like to see a systematic refutation from you based on the Word.

Flippant remarks might be good for comedy, but they do not serve for edification. What you quoted and posted is simply an attack on Scripture by calling it a "paper pope", and causing Christians to wonder if they can really understand what God has revealed. And using Gnostic terms like "the Light of Jesus" to further confuse people. The Gnostics believed that there was hidden esoteric knowledge reserved for the enlightened ones.

That was, and is, the rationale of the RCC. You need "the Church" (aka the RCC) to interpret Scripture for you. And we all should be aware that Rome has been trying for centuries to drive all Christians back into its fold. And the World Evangelical Alliance has finally caved in.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Unfortunately, this leaves you saying I must not be indwelt because I disagree with what you believe you see... and me saying the same thing about you because you do not believe as I do. (Hypothetically, of course.)

And, in truth, on many issues, both could be right..... as God has something esoteric in mind for each.

Well, I've found no reason to elieve you're not saved, indwelt or what ever. This can be one of those points that we are intended to agree to disagree, Willie.

 

[Willie T]

Willie,
If you agree with what I am saying, post "Amen". If not, kindly edify us all with Scripture to refute what I have stated. I (and I'm sure others) would like to see a systematic refutation from you based on the Word.

Flippant remarks might be good for comedy, but they do not serve for edification. What you quoted and posted is simply an attack on Scripture by calling it a "paper pope", and causing Christians to wonder if they can really understand what God has revealed. And using Gnostic terms like "the Light of Jesus" to further confuse people. The Gnostics believed that there was hidden esoteric knowledge reserved for the enlightened ones.

That was, and is, the rationale of the RCC. You need "the Church" (aka the RCC) to interpret Scripture for you. And we all should be aware that Rome has been trying for centuries to drive all Christians back into its fold. And the World Evangelical Alliance has finally caved in.

It is right in front of your face, yet your prejudicial assumptions about the use of a "word" have blinded you.

He is not making fun of the Bible by saying people wanted a paper pope. He is saying that people STILL wanted to be told what to believe.... as the pope had always done for them. They, now had no real live pope, so they turned to the same thing in the form of a book (paper). They still wanted to turn a page, and have someone or SOMETHING instruct them as to what to believe and how to worship. They found that substitute for their, now missing, pope, in the form of paper in a book with instructions written on it.

Only trouble was....... whereas the pope's interpretations of ALL the words of scripture were final, and they simply had to just fall into step behind that decree, they NOW had to start interpreting scripture as each different one of them saw it.

So what has happened? Most people now turned (and still do) to a preacher and, in effect, make him their new pope. And he tells them that he has the REAL truth from that "paper" in a book.

 

[Willie T]

Well, I've found no reason to elieve you're not saved, indwelt or what ever. This can be one of those points that we are intended to agree to disagree, Willie.

But, did you not say that if we are indwelt, we will interpret correctly? Yet you and I interpret several things differently. From what you said about indwelling, what does that imply?

 

[th1b.taylor]

That is always the case with people who hold to a too strong a position of the perspicuity of Scripture (the ease of being understood). The "it plainly states this, I asked God and he showed me," stance to Scripture ends discussions as such a person's interpretation is deemed nearly infallible. Any discussion of Scripture cannot be had, as the person seems to supernaturally understand the passage and those who disagree must simply not be listening to the Holy Spirit.

No and yes. What God has shown me cannot be refuted by any man any more than what God has shown Willie. There are multiple applications of a part of scripture and God gives to each what is needed, when it is needed. The difference here is that some are so unreasonable to fall down and to ask God and I pray I never pull that exercise in kunacy on Willie and he, certainly, has never done that to me.

Willie, I, Reba, Rick, Chopper and a good number here are mature Christians that know these things to be true because we have spent hundreds of hours studying the scriptures and have had God to show us a new use for a scripture when we have reread it. The thing is, as the scripture explains it to us, scripture will never disagree with scripture. Willie and I will receive what we need from God about the difference and that is iron sharpening iron.

 

[evenifigoalone]

We're all wrong about something. Disagreements between believers are learning opportunities.
While God has shown me things and pointed them out to me, He doesn't tell me everything. It takes time to discover some truths, some things may be revealed years later or not revealed at all until heaven. Some of the things I used to believe I no longer believe. It's interesting to see how my views on things change over time. It's interesting how not everything I believe about Scripture is free from personal bias and preference...it takes time to get past and realize stuff like this.
Plus Scripture and it's teachings are vast; I don't think we could learn it all in several lifetimes.

 

[th1b.taylor]

But, did you not say that if we are indwelt, we will interpret correctly? Yet you and I interpret several things differently. From what you said about indwelling, what does that imply?

It implies that neither of us is God but both of us already knew that.
Also, we both in some manor are correct and just as there are scriptures latched onto by Lost Men to demonstrate scripture conflicting scripture. You and I know there are no scriptural conflicts but that we need the wisdom of God, imparted by the indwelling Holy ghost, to see they reconcile one another.

 

[th1b.taylor]

But, did you not say that if we are indwelt, we will interpret correctly? Yet you and I interpret several things differently. From what you said about indwelling, what does that imply?

Yep, and now read QD's post, I can never hope to say it etter.

 

[Willie T]

No and yes. What God has shown me cannot be refuted by any man any more than what God has shown Willie. There are multiple applications of a part of scripture and God gives to each what is needed, when it is needed. The difference here is that some are so unreasonable to fall down and to ask God and I pray I never pull that exercise in kunacy on Willie and he, certainly, has never done that to me.

Willie, I, Reba, Rick, Chopper and a good number here are mature Christians that know these things to be true because we have spent hundreds of hours studying the scriptures and have had God to show us a new use for a scripture when we have reread it. The thing is, as the scripture explains it to us, scripture will never disagree with scripture. Willie and I will receive what we need from God about the difference and that is iron sharpening iron.

So true, and as some of you get older (much older, like us), you will undoubtedly find that God will show you more and different things all the time.

There is one definite thing, however. If someone does not believe as you do, it is VERY important to know that this means something.

It means he does not believe as you do. And, that's usually all it means.

 

[Jesse]

What I think the OP is saying is that we have the Word of God, we read it, it points us to Christ and teaches us how to follow the Holy Spirit and then we go and follow the Spirit. We don't have to run back to the Word to wonder if one of our experience is from Him because by following the Spirit, we will know it is Him. In this way we have a relationship with God and not a relationship with a book. God lives in us, and not in a book.

We can read about other people's experiences in the Bible, but God wants us to have our own experience with Him.

God should be the ultimate authority.

Is this about right?

 

[th1b.taylor]

So true, and as some of you get older (much older, like us), you will undoubtedly find that God will show you more and different things all the time.

There is one definite thing, however. If someone does not believe as you do, it is VERY important to know that this means something.

It means he does not believe as you do. And, that's usually all it means.

LOLLOL! Yup and that knowledge keeps a lot of old codgers from acting like the young bucks they once were. LOL! May God bless until we eat side by side.

 

[jeff77]

Just a reminder, not directed at anyone.
1) Give other members the respect you would have them give to yourself. (ToS 2.4)
Address issues/ideas, not persons or personalities. Do not insult, publicly post derogatory opinions of others, post insinuation to belittle or discredit, or otherwise create a hostile environment. Present evidence for support or rebuttal during debate. Bashing the author of another view or opinion is not evidence.

 

[th1b.taylor]

What I think the OP is saying is that we have the Word of God, we read it, it points us to Christ and teaches us how to follow the Holy Spirit and then we go and follow the Spirit. We don't have to run back to the Word to wonder if one of our experience is from Him because by following the Spirit, we will know it is Him. In this way we have a relationship with God and not a relationship with a book. God lives in us, and not in a book.

We can read about other people's experiences in the Bible, but God wants us to have our own experience with Him.

God should be the ultimate authority.

Is this about right?

There is a great caution in that Jesse, I find no real reason to consider Saul/'later Paul as an unfaithful servant that chose to follow Satan, but he did. Saul became so busy he had no time to hide more scripture in his heart and Satan misused him. Our lives do not be, letter by letter, led by the scriptures but all through the Bible and God's Commentary is full of governing principals and if our actions violate that wisdom, we are in sin, whether we know it or not.

Not all leading spirits are from nor on mission for God.