Top Ten Reasons to Believe that Jesus is God

[Sothenes]

Top Ten Reasons to Believe that Jesus is God
by Robert M. Bowman, Jr.

Hebrews 1 Other Scriptures
1. He speaks as God does (vv. 1-2a). John 1:1, 14; 8:43-47
2. He owns everything God does (v. 2b). Matt. 11:27; Col. 1:16
3. He is everything God is (v. 3a). John 1:1; 14:9; Col. 1:15
4. He does everything God does (v. 3b). John 5:19; Col. 1:17
5. He gets all the honors God does (v. 6). Matt. 28:17; John 5:23
6. He has the titles God has (vv. 8, 10). Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 10:9-13; Phil. 2:9-11; Titus 2:13-14; 2 Pet. 1:1, 11
7. He will rule as long as God will (vv. 8-9). Luke 1:33; Eph. 1:21
8. He made everything God did (v. 10). Ps. 102:25-27; Is. 44:24; John 1:3; Col. 1:16
9. He is as dependable as God (vv. 11-12). John 14:1; Heb. 13:8
10. He is as exalted as God (v. 13). Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-22; Phil. 2:9-11

http://www.apologetics.com/default.jsp? ... isgod.html

 

[ChristineES]

Those are great!! Thank you, Sothenes! 8-)

 

[Novum]

There are some things for which you just never expect to see top ten lists made... :roll:

 

[thessalonian]

Well alrighty then. He's God. Case closed. :-D

 

[gingercat]

You guys never cease to amaze me. No matter how much you harp about it you will not convince me. You are wasting your posts.

 

[destiny]

1. He speaks as God does (vv. 1-2a). John 1:1, 14; 8:43-47
2. He owns everything God does (v. 2b). Matt. 11:27; Col. 1:16
3. He is everything God is (v. 3a). John 1:1; 14:9; Col. 1:15
4. He does everything God does (v. 3b). John 5:19; Col. 1:17
5. He gets all the honors God does (v. 6). Matt. 28:17; John 5:23
6. He has the titles God has (vv. 8, 10). Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 10:9-13; Phil. 2:9-11; Titus 2:13-14; 2 Pet. 1:1, 11
7. He will rule as long as God will (vv. 8-9). Luke 1:33; Eph. 1:21
8. He made everything God did (v. 10). Ps. 102:25-27; Is. 44:24; John 1:3; Col. 1:16
9. He is as dependable as God (vv. 11-12). John 14:1; Heb. 13:8
10. He is as exalted as God (v. 13). Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-22; Phil. 2:9-1

Yes, all of the above is true, except Jesus is the Son of God, as the word makes clear.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

You guys never cease to amaze me. No matter how much you harp about it you will not convince me. You are wasting your posts.

Who said he was doing it for you?

 

[ChristineES]

There are some things for which you just never expect to see top ten lists made... :roll:

I never expected to see nonbelievers on a Christian board. :-D :-D

 

[mutzrein]

1. He speaks as God does (vv. 1-2a). John 1:1, 14; 8:43-47
2. He owns everything God does (v. 2b). Matt. 11:27; Col. 1:16
3. He is everything God is (v. 3a). John 1:1; 14:9; Col. 1:15
4. He does everything God does (v. 3b). John 5:19; Col. 1:17
5. He gets all the honors God does (v. 6). Matt. 28:17; John 5:23
6. He has the titles God has (vv. 8, 10). Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 10:9-13; Phil. 2:9-11; Titus 2:13-14; 2 Pet. 1:1, 11
7. He will rule as long as God will (vv. 8-9). Luke 1:33; Eph. 1:21
8. He made everything God did (v. 10). Ps. 102:25-27; Is. 44:24; John 1:3; Col. 1:16
9. He is as dependable as God (vv. 11-12). John 14:1; Heb. 13:8
10. He is as exalted as God (v. 13). Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-22; Phil. 2:9-1

Yes, all of the above is true, except Jesus is the Son of God, as the word makes clear.

Scripture is true. Man's interpretation is not necessarily so. God has given His son all authority under heaven and earth and as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:27. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

 

[Georges]

Top 2 Reasons Jesus is not God.....


1) He qualifies as the Memra. In a nutshell, the Memra in Judaism is the active word of God in the OT. In the NT Jesus is the Memra made flesh. In the OT the Memra is the Agent of God when dealing with man.

2) He calls himself the sent one...which in Judaism is Agency. In legalese, the Law of Agency states that one's agent is as himself....In other words God gave Jesus the authority to act on his behalf.


Both of these items are covered in the OP. Trouble is the top 10 list is misconstrued because the terms and verses are not understood in Jewish terms...

 

[thessalonian]

[quote:c80e6]1. He speaks as God does (vv. 1-2a). John 1:1, 14; 8:43-47
2. He owns everything God does (v. 2b). Matt. 11:27; Col. 1:16
3. He is everything God is (v. 3a). John 1:1; 14:9; Col. 1:15
4. He does everything God does (v. 3b). John 5:19; Col. 1:17
5. He gets all the honors God does (v. 6). Matt. 28:17; John 5:23
6. He has the titles God has (vv. 8, 10). Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 10:9-13; Phil. 2:9-11; Titus 2:13-14; 2 Pet. 1:1, 11
7. He will rule as long as God will (vv. 8-9). Luke 1:33; Eph. 1:21
8. He made everything God did (v. 10). Ps. 102:25-27; Is. 44:24; John 1:3; Col. 1:16
9. He is as dependable as God (vv. 11-12). John 14:1; Heb. 13:8
10. He is as exalted as God (v. 13). Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-22; Phil. 2:9-1

Yes, all of the above is true, except Jesus is the Son of God, as the word makes clear.

Scripture is true. Man's interpretation is not necessarily so

.

Bravo.

God has given His son all authority under heaven and earth and as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:27. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

[/quote:c80e6]

Yours of course is true, right? Everyone seems to think their individual opinoins are the cats meow of interpretation these days. You just as well be in the mix as well.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Top Ten Reasons to Believe that Jesus is God
by Robert M. Bowman, Jr.

Hebrews 1 Other Scriptures
1. He speaks as God does (vv. 1-2a). John 1:1, 14; 8:43-47
2. He owns everything God does (v. 2b). Matt. 11:27; Col. 1:16
3. He is everything God is (v. 3a). John 1:1; 14:9; Col. 1:15
4. He does everything God does (v. 3b). John 5:19; Col. 1:17
5. He gets all the honors God does (v. 6). Matt. 28:17; John 5:23
6. He has the titles God has (vv. 8, 10). Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 10:9-13; Phil. 2:9-11; Titus 2:13-14; 2 Pet. 1:1, 11
7. He will rule as long as God will (vv. 8-9). Luke 1:33; Eph. 1:21
8. He made everything God did (v. 10). Ps. 102:25-27; Is. 44:24; John 1:3; Col. 1:16
9. He is as dependable as God (vv. 11-12). John 14:1; Heb. 13:8
10. He is as exalted as God (v. 13). Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-22; Phil. 2:9-11

getics/bowman-jesusisgod.html

A list of 10 reasons that Jesus is NOT God can easily be compiled and I may do so when I have time (actually the time involved would be taken up in deciding how to LIMIT those reasons to only 10)

But you are not getting the "big picture". The "obvious" escapes you. Notice how your (Bowman's) proofs of Jesus' supposed deity are comparitive in nature - i.e. - God is like this, Jesus is too, God does this, Jesus does too, etc. What you are actually doing is comparing SOMEONE ELSE to God and then proclaiming that someone else, according to his virtues, is not only equal to God BUT IS GOD HIMSELF. My friend, that's MORE THAN ONE GOD. That whole perspective is polytheistic in nature despite the addition of the Trinitarian disclaimer that "there is only one God". You've got 2 "someones" (actually 3 per the Trinity) who are not each other yet are all God. If they are not each other and they are all deity then they ARE NOT ONE GOD. Your definition of "one God" is no different in nature than "many Gods" except for the "disclaimer". If there were many Gods they would not be each other would they? Of course not - THAT"S WHAT WOULD MAKE THEM MORE THAN ONE GOD. You've got the same theology, yet you just announce that, after laboring to prove their distinction, they are somehow "one". I could believe in a whole tribe of deities and say they were "one" inasmuch as they loved each other and never disagreed yet that would not make them one God, one ENTITY in the true sense of the word. All I would have is a bunch of gods who love each other and never disagree.

Now if the Trinity IS what the bible teaches, then there is more than one God. As you endeavor to preach Trinitarian dogma to us infidels you might want to meditate on what I have said and perhaps the light switch will come on in your mind and you will realize that what you are doing is actually preaching AGAINST any sensible and truthful concept of there being one God.

 

[Novum]

There are some things for which you just never expect to see top ten lists made... :roll:

I never expected to see nonbelievers on a Christian board. :-D :-D

Are you serious? Where else online would nonbelievers go to learn about Christianity or ask Christians questions about their religion?

 

[Sothenes]

There are some things for which you just never expect to see top ten lists made... :roll:

I never expected to see nonbelievers on a Christian board. :-D :-D

Are you serious? Where else online would nonbelievers go to learn about Christianity or ask Christians questions about their religion?

Learn, fight or mock?

 

[Novum]

There are some things for which you just never expect to see top ten lists made... :roll:

I never expected to see nonbelievers on a Christian board. :-D :-D

Are you serious? Where else online would nonbelievers go to learn about Christianity or ask Christians questions about their religion?

Learn, fight or mock?

Some people go for all three, at times. And let's not even start on the attitude that some Christians show towards nonbelievers.

Speaking of which, Sothenes, you've been doing an excellent job of ignoring my responses to you in other threads. Keep up the good work.

 

[Sothenes]

Some people go for all three, at times. And let's not even start on the attitude that some Christians show towards nonbelievers.

Speaking of which, Sothenes, you've been doing an excellent job of ignoring my responses to you in other threads. Keep up the good work.

I'm sorry but I'm only one person and I'm behind on some of the messages. My messages take some time to write because of the difficulty involved or because of the level of argumentation so I won't always get the time to answer everyone My child was sick for the last couple of days but is better now but it meant me holding him from the time I got home until about 8 PM. My specialty is not Christian history right now although I have some books on the subject but one of your last arguments with me had to deal with Christian history and secular history. There is a user on another forum whom only wants to argue with me so I plainly told him that I don't want to argue for the sake of arguing but I want to write Bible studies instead. I don't refuse to talk to you, Novum but I only have so much time anymore.

 

[mutzrein]

1. He speaks as God does (vv. 1-2a). John 1:1, 14; 8:43-47
2. He owns everything God does (v. 2b). Matt. 11:27; Col. 1:16
3. He is everything God is (v. 3a). John 1:1; 14:9; Col. 1:15
4. He does everything God does (v. 3b). John 5:19; Col. 1:17
5. He gets all the honors God does (v. 6). Matt. 28:17; John 5:23
6. He has the titles God has (vv. 8, 10). Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 10:9-13; Phil. 2:9-11; Titus 2:13-14; 2 Pet. 1:1, 11
7. He will rule as long as God will (vv. 8-9). Luke 1:33; Eph. 1:21
8. He made everything God did (v. 10). Ps. 102:25-27; Is. 44:24; John 1:3; Col. 1:16
9. He is as dependable as God (vv. 11-12). John 14:1; Heb. 13:8
10. He is as exalted as God (v. 13). Matt. 28:18; Eph. 1:20-22; Phil. 2:9-1

Yes, all of the above is true, except Jesus is the Son of God, as the word makes clear.

Scripture is true. Man's interpretation is not necessarily so

.

Bravo.

[quote:a3f4a]God has given His son all authority under heaven and earth and as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:27. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

Yours of course is true, right? Everyone seems to think their individual opinoins are the cats meow of interpretation these days. You just as well be in the mix as well.[/quote:a3f4a]

There is much I don't know but what I have learned is that God gives me understanding of the things that I need to know. Many years ago, God planted within me a passion for truth. I have no desire to know anything else. You may see what I say as opinion. I see it as truth.

Judge me by my fruit Thess, not by your doctrines of man.

 

[Sothenes]

But you are not getting the "big picture". The "obvious" escapes you. Notice how your (Bowman's) proofs of Jesus' supposed deity are comparitive in nature - i.e. - God is like this, Jesus is too, God does this, Jesus does too, etc. What you are actually doing is comparing SOMEONE ELSE to God and then proclaiming that someone else, according to his virtues, is not only equal to God BUT IS GOD HIMSELF. My friend, that's MORE THAN ONE GOD. That whole perspective is polytheistic in nature despite the addition of the Trinitarian disclaimer that "there is only one God". You've got 2 "someones" (actually 3 per the Trinity) who are not each other yet are all God. If they are not each other and they are all deity then they ARE NOT ONE GOD. Your definition of "one God" is no different in nature than "many Gods" except for the "disclaimer". If there were many Gods they would not be each other would they? Of course not - THAT"S WHAT WOULD MAKE THEM MORE THAN ONE GOD. You've got the same theology, yet you just announce that, after laboring to prove their distinction, they are somehow "one". I could believe in a whole tribe of deities and say they were "one" inasmuch as they loved each other and never disagreed yet that would not make them one God, one ENTITY in the true sense of the word. All I would have is a bunch of gods who love each other and never disagree.

Now if the Trinity IS what the bible teaches, then there is more than one God. As you endeavor to preach Trinitarian dogma to us infidels you might want to meditate on what I have said and perhaps the light switch will come on in your mind and you will realize that what you are doing is actually preaching AGAINST any sensible and truthful concept of there being one God.

If Jesus is not God then no one in this forum can be saved for a simple reason. Imagine that someone murdered your loved one. You would want the criminal hung from the highest tree. God accepts atonement in the old testament so do you suppose that if the criminal burned some toast as a burnt offering to God that He would forgive the person? The sacrifice or payement has to be equal to the one injured and if it isn't then you haven't made full payment to the one injured (so to speak) and Jesus couldn't say "..It is finished (tetelestai)" or "paid in full" if Jesus was a lesser being than God. The non-trinitarians should really study this because not understanding this point will be their greatest weakness.

You've got 2 "someones" (actually 3 per the Trinity) who are not each other yet are all God. If they are not each other and they are all deity then they ARE NOT ONE GOD. Your definition of "one God" is no different in nature than "many Gods" except for the "disclaimer".

God came down and clothed himself in flesh. Taking on flesh was taking on an aditional nature (John 1:14) and in this nature He was joined with our nature except sinless. The idea that there are two Gods instead of two natures is wrong because "the Word was God" and could only be equal with God (Philippians 2:6) if He had the same nature and was God. Taking on a form of flesh and a servant means that the person (God) has to give up invisibility (Hebrews 1:3) though remaining God and the only way for God to be invisible if for Him to have a separate person because He may have always existed without the flesh.

"Wherefore when he cometh into the world,he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body (A) hast thou prepared me."-Hebrews 10:5

A. Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; Septuagint but a body you have prepared for me (see also Symmachus and Theodotion) -notes from Biblegateway based on the NIV translation.

We know that Jesus claims these scriptures for himself and the old testament psalms bears witness because Psalms 40:7 says,"Then said I, Lo, I come; in the volume of the book it is written of me," (Hebrews 10:7) and that Moses wrote of Jesus (John 5:45).

 

[Sothenes]

Bravo.

God has given His son all authority under heaven and earth and as it says in 1 Corinthians 15:27. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

Yours of course is true, right? Everyone seems to think their individual opinoins are the cats meow of interpretation these days. You just as well be in the mix as well.

Col.2:9-10: "The fullness of deity dwells bodily in Christ, the Colossians had previously come to a fullness of life in Him who is the head of all rule and authority. "Head" means supreme "authority," "Principality and powers" is a reference to the highest rankings of angelic beings he Christ being over them all. Which means he is not in the same rank or species as an angel. Neither could he be the archangel which would still have him be in the order of a created being.
http://www.letusreason.org/Trin12.htm

Then Jesus couldn't have been a created being.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

If Jesus is not God then no one in this forum can be saved for a simple reason. Imagine that someone murdered your loved one. You would want the criminal hung from the highest tree. God accepts atonement in the old testament so do you suppose that if the criminal burned some toast as a burnt offering to God that He would forgive the person? The sacrifice or payement has to be equal to the one injured and if it isn't then you haven't made full payment to the one injured (so to speak) and Jesus couldn't say "..It is finished (tetelestai)" or "paid in full" if Jesus was a lesser being than God. The non-trinitarians should really study this because not understanding this point will be their greatest weakness

Wrong on multiple counts. God can't die, so, whatever did die on the cross was a "lesser being than God". By your reasoning, then, the debt should NOT be "paid in full" anyway.

Let me ask another question...

How was it that Adam, a mere man and not God, represented, and condemned, the entire human race when he sinned? If a man, who was not infinite and all-powerful, could be responsible for the sin of mankind, then why would it take a "God in the flesh" to undo that? Jesus is even called the "Second Adam". The scripture teaches that he represented the human race and in making the right choice whereas Adam represented the human race and made the wrong choice.

God came down and clothed himself in flesh

That is good solid pagan theology (Acts.14:11)

Taking on flesh was taking on an aditional nature (John 1:14) and in this nature He was joined with our nature except sinless

Then was Jesus really a man? A man is a human being with ONLY a human nature.

The idea that there are two Gods instead of two natures is wrong because "the Word was God" and could only be equal with God (Philippians 2:6) if He had the same nature and was God

But if he had the same nature as God and was equal with God then there would be 2 Gods. What sense does it make to say that God has the same nature as Himself or that God is equal to Himself?

Taking on a form of flesh and a servant means that the person (God) has to give up invisibility (Hebrews 1:3) though remaining God and the only way for God to be invisible if for Him to have a separate person because He may have always existed without the flesh

But the word says...

"No man hath seen God AT ANY TIME..."

The true God then, did not give up invisibility. (the "true God" was the one Jesus spoke of - Jn.17:3)

"Wherefore when he cometh into the world,he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body (A) hast thou prepared me."-Hebrews 10:5

A. Psalm 40:6 Hebrew; Septuagint but a body you have prepared for me (see also Symmachus and Theodotion) -notes from Biblegateway based on the NIV translation

The hebrew says - "my ears you have opened"

We know that Jesus claims these scriptures for himself and the old testament psalms bears witness because Psalms 40:7 says,"Then said I, Lo, I come; in the volume of the book it is written of me," (Hebrews 10:7) and that Moses wrote of Jesus (John 5:45).

The same one who v.6 wrote v.12 which reads...

"...my SINS have overtaken me..." (NIV)

Still say it's Jesus?