Touch Not the Unclean Thing

[whirlwind]

Paul addressed "Ye men of Athens," and mentioned their altar to "The Unknown God," that they "ignorantly worship." Paul declared to them that indeed that was........

Acts 17:24-25 God That made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

He doesn't dwell in temples mankind makes but...He does dwell in the temples He made. He dwells in us.

11 Corinthians 6:16-18 And what agreement hath the Temple of God with idols? for ye are the Temple of the living God; as God hath said, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Wherefore "come out from among them, and be ye separate", saith the LORD, "and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be My sons and daughters," saith the LORD Almighty.

That thought, of Him being in me at this very moment as I sit and write this, is truly awesome! He is literally in us as He leads, guides and directs our lives. To feel His presence we are required to "come out from among, and be separate," from the world and to "touch not the unclean thing."

Coming out of the world I believe is what we do as our "old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed." [Romans 6:6] For some that may be a quick death and to others....a slow and agonizing process as the body gasps another breath of the old life. But, what of the "touch not the unclean thing?"

Touch (Greek) #680 haptomai, refl. of 681 to attach oneself to, i.e. to touch (in many impl. relations): - touch #681 hapto, to fasten to, i.e. (spec) to set on fire: - kindle, light.

Touch (Hebrew) 5060 naga; to touch, i.e. lay the hand upon (for any purpose; euphem. to lie with a woman); by impl. to reach (fig. to arrive, acquire); violently, to strike (punish, defeat, destroy, etc.): - beat, (be able to) bring (down), cast, come (nigh) draw near (nigh), get up, happen, join, near, plague, reach (up), smite, strike, touch.

Does it mean we are not to touch the foods He declared as being unclean to us? No. This is the (singular) "unclean THING" we are not to touch, not unclean things. Throughout the Bible God compares adultery to idolatry. To the offended party in a marriage, be it the wife or husband....when their mate chooses another over them the pain is immense. I believe that He uses this analogy so we understand how He feels when His wife chooses another one to worship....adultery/idolatry.

Idolatry, worship of another god, is the unclean thing we are not to touch. Notice in the descriptions of the word "touch" as used in scripture, we see that it is a euphemism for lying with a woman and relations with someone. This physical act describes the spiritual act.

Is not worshipping another god, or gods, a simple matter? On the surface I would say....Yes, but we know that Satan is the great deceiver and doesn't work openly.

 

[Ret]

Paul addressed "Ye men of Athens," and mentioned their altar to "The Unknown God," that they "ignorantly worship." Paul declared to them that indeed that was........

Acts 17:24-25 God That made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

He doesn't dwell in temples mankind makes but...He does dwell in the temples He made. He dwells in us.

[quote:3f4cob0h]11 Corinthians 6:16-18 And what agreement hath the Temple of God with idols? for ye are the Temple of the living God; as God hath said, "I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." Wherefore "come out from among them, and be ye separate", saith the LORD, "and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be My sons and daughters," saith the LORD Almighty.

That thought, of Him being in me at this very moment as I sit and write this, is truly awesome! He is literally in us as He leads, guides and directs our lives. To feel His presence we are required to "come out from among, and be separate," from the world and to "touch not the unclean thing." [/quote:3f4cob0h]
My daughter who is married and has two children of her own, has been studdying the writings of Wayne Dyer and DePok Shopra (both - high morals, much love, humanitarian giving, etc.). After studying these philosophies my daughter makes an announcement, saying 'I am GOD'! Absorbing the shock of this announcement, I agreed with her to the extent that 'yes, we are God's possession and He dwells in us, but that doesn't mean we are able to LITERALLY raise the dead, walk on water, or create an entire world'.

In this fleshly life, we are adopted into the FAMILY of GOD, we are HIS possession, and we will be given a 'new body' in the next life, when we are 'CHANGED' at the 'LAST TRUMP' 1 Cor 15:51-54.

Till then... 2 Cor 5:1-5
5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,
we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house
which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would
be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,
who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. KJV

Christ gives us a deposit of this indwelling through the earnest of the Spirit
by which HE lives IN US....till this mortality is 'swallowed up of life'.

 

[follower of Christ]

Does it mean we are not to touch the foods He declared as being unclean to us?

As far as meats go, nothing is unclean for us now.

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed principalities and powers, He mocked them in public, triumphing over them in it.
Therefore do not let anyone judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or of a new moon or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.
(Colossians 2:13-17 EMTV)


I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean of itself; except to him considering anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
But if your brother is grieved on account of your food, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food the one on behalf of whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be slandered. For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
(Romans 14:14-17 EMTV)

 

[whirlwind]

Does it mean we are not to touch the foods He declared as being unclean to us?

As far as meats go, nothing is unclean for us now.
[quote:1y01ixjg]And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, having blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed principalities and powers, He mocked them in public, triumphing over them in it.
Therefore do not let anyone judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or of a new moon or of sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.
(Colossians 2:13-17 EMTV)


I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean of itself; except to him considering anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
But if your brother is grieved on account of your food, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food the one on behalf of whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be slandered. For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
(Romans 14:14-17 EMTV)

[/quote:1y01ixjg]


I don't judge you and you may eat whatever you think is right. However, I do not agree with you on the subject of unclean foods. But....this has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[whirlwind]

My daughter who is married and has two children of her own, has been studdying the writings of Wayne Dyer and DePok Shopra (both - high morals, much love, humanitarian giving, etc.). After studying these philosophies my daughter makes an announcement, saying 'I am GOD'! Absorbing the shock of this announcement, I agreed with her to the extent that 'yes, we are God's possession and He dwells in us, but that doesn't mean we are able to LITERALLY raise the dead, walk on water, or create an entire world'.

When I first began to crave spiritual knowledge I listened to both of the two you mention. Their message is very alluring to one beginning to search. Although I didn't listen long I also didn't realize they taught us that we are God...as in creating a world. I threw the books away, along with many others, when I found Him in His Word. Once you "absorbed the shock" and explained things to your daughter....did she understand?

I closed the OP with..."Is not worshipping another god, or gods, a simple matter? On the surface I would say....Yes, but we know that Satan is the great deceiver and doesn't work openly." That thought of how he operates undercover is part and parcel of the "philosophies" I first began to study. That, I believe, is one of his many ways he deceives and takes us from God and God alone.

 

[Fembot]

I don't agree with follower either.

 

[Ret]

When I first began to crave spiritual knowledge I listened to both of the two you mention. Their message is very alluring to one beginning to search. Although I didn't listen long I also didn't realize they taught us that we are God...as in creating a world. I threw the books away, along with many others, when I found Him in His Word. Once you "absorbed the shock" and explained things to your daughter....did she understand?

Not yet...presently she is flooded with many trials of which I won't elaborate at this time. It does seem that these philosophies are beginning to loose their hold on her. Not easy...though! (Ahhhh...the earth is opening it's mouth to help the woman!)

I closed the OP with..."Is not worshipping another god, or gods, a simple matter? On the surface I would say....Yes, but we know that Satan is the great deceiver and doesn't work openly." That thought of how he operates undercover is part and parcel of the "philosophies" I first began to study. That, I believe, is one of his many ways he deceives and takes us from God and God alone.

Agree ww....the deceiver works in 'darkness' and those philosophies are filling the world... :yes

I have more thoughts to share about 'Touch not the unclean Thing', so be back in a bit!

 

[Ret]

... But, what of the "touch not the unclean thing?"

...Throughout the Bible God compares adultery to idolatry. ...I believe that He uses this analogy so we understand how He feels when His wife chooses another one to worship....adultery/idolatry.

Idolatry, worship of another god, is the unclean thing we are not to touch. Notice in the descriptions of the word "touch" as used in scripture, we see that it is a euphemism for lying with a woman and relations with someone. This physical act describes the spiritual act.

Is not worshipping another god, or gods, a simple matter? On the surface I would say....Yes, but we know that Satan is the great deceiver and doesn't work openly. [/b]

Scripture uses the word - 'JOIN' or 'JOINED' (TOUCH = JOINED within this study)
Other uses of 'TOUCH' - Jesus 'touched the leper' and he became 'clean'. Mt 8:3

Hosea 4:17-18
17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
18 Their drink is sour: they have committed whoredom continually:
her rulers with shame do love, Give ye. KJV

1 Corinthians 6:16-17
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body?
for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.KJV

What happens LITERALLY in the flesh, becomes a SPIRITUAL analogy, symbolism.
Who am I 'JOINED' to...? If I am dead to the world, I am alive (JOINED) to Christ!

Hosea 4:11-12
11 Whoredom (harlotry) and wine and new wine take away the heart ('understanding' ASV).
12 My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them:
for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err,
and they have gone a whoring from under their God. KJV

The 'SPIRIT' of whoredoms/harlotry = everything, and anything that comes between us and God.
From people, to property, to money, even pride has it's hold on me/us! I can't say I'm free of everything as I still have a credit card, property, some of that 'green' stuff. OH...don't forget the computer I'm writing this on, sometimes I feal I would be 'lost' without it! ... :help

My hope - the Lord will deliver me/us from these 'things' that have such a strong hold on us. Oh, some major things are already GONE!...but there's more to go. Something like an onion...one layer at the time gets tossed away!

 

[Fembot]

Great post Ret.

I think the most powerful weapon the devil uses is money. People are too preoccupied with things as a result or to obtain money.

 

[Ret]

I think the most powerful weapon the devil uses is money. People are too preoccupied with things as a result or to obtain money.

True Fem...money and being to busy with the cares of this life, good as they are, sure keep us preoccupied! Gives us to reconsider the things we are 'joined' to.

 

[Drew]

I don't agree with follower either.

I would be curious to know why. I trust that you are aware that Jesus said this:

there is nothing outside the man which can defile him if it goes into him

This is a direct and unambiguous overturning of the Levitical food laws such as:

'Nevertheless, (B)you are not to eat of these, among those which chew the cud, or among those which divide the hoof: the camel, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you. 5'Likewise, the shaphan, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you;

To eat something unclean is to defile onself. Jesus is saying that nothing - nothing - that a man eats defiles him. So on precisely what grounds do you take issue with the position of follower?

Are you going to say that the Levitical food laws are about "physical health" and Jesus' is saying that no food can make you "spiritually defiled". If so, you are importing a dualist distinction between the physical and the "spiritual" that was entirely unknown to the Hebrew mind.

No - Jesus means what he says in a direct literal fashion. He is saying the time has come for the end of the Old Testament food laws.

I do realize that this thread was not started to initiate a discussion of the food laws. So fear not - unless someone posts something really outrageous about the food laws, I will let the matter drop.

 

[Sparkey]

Greetings, (greeting each (who can receive it) with an holy kiss) Greetings!

May I join with a riddle that my children laugh at me about?
I have, like the author of Ecclesiastes, attempted to discover "Wisdom"
My thoughts and contemplations have turned to the "love of wisdom", Phileo-sophia.
I've heard that Wisdom "Calls out in the streets" (as does "Folly") drawing all mankind.

When I desired knowledge it was compared to Silver.
When I desired wisdom it was compared to Gold.

There was much beauty found in the analogies. Knowledge puffeth up, Wisdom helps us to put the knowledge we have to proper use while retaining our humble spirits.

The Riddle came from trying to see, trying so very hard to see:
If Silver is Knowledge,
If Wisdom is Gold,
What then is Understanding?

It is the riddle of this Sparrow, the riddle of "He-Who-Remembers" (as I called myself then), who searched diligently to discover the answer for more than ten years. The answer is part of the topic. My kids laugh at me because it was such a dark thing. One that pressed and goaded my search into mysteries found in the Bible.

• The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
  To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
  A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
  To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.[/*:m:223ci6v9]

What is understanding?

• So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
  Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
  If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
  Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
  For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.
  He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly.
  When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;
  Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee: [/*:m:223ci6v9]

Lord, what IS understanding??

• Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
  So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
  Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
  Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.
  The wise shall inherit glory: but shame shall be the promotion of fools.
  Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
  For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law. [/*:m:223ci6v9]

Yes, Lord - all Thy doctrines are right and true. You alone are the Good Father: I pray Thee, Lord, what is UNDERSTANDING??

• But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
  And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,
  Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,
  In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:
  And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtle of heart. [/*:m:223ci6v9]

Nay Lord, I shall not go to that house (I lied). Lord, is this understanding?

Who is blind like His servant? In my later years is given to know the answer to the riddle.
I am the harlot. I am the idolatress and the adulteress. I've seen the actions of my hands. I have committed harlotry under ever good tree and upon every hill in Jerusalem. O! Jerusalem. I long and crave for the Peace to be found in your city and to gaze upon Zion. I have found folly, we all have. Who can say they have not turned their eyes away from Him whom my soul loves? But WHAT IS UNDERSTANDING???

The answer?

• If Silver is Knowledge,
  If Wisdom is Gold,
  What then is Understanding?
  Understanding is to depart evil (Touch not the unclean thing)

______________________________
I would also like to thank the one who brought this word from the Holy Spirit:

...
Till then... 2 Cor 5:1-5
5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,
we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house
which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would
be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God,
who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. KJV

Christ gives us a deposit of this indwelling through the earnest of the Spirit
by which HE lives IN US....till this mortality is 'swallowed up of life'.

~Sparrowhawk

 

[sheshisown]

:D ~Sparrow

The answer?

If Silver is Knowledge,
If Wisdom is Gold,
What then is Understanding?
Understanding is to depart evil (Touch not the unclean thing)

So for my simple intellect to sum it up~ knowledge is required that we may aquire and learn to know how to apply what we know ( this is known in the mind ).To gain wisdom~(this is known in the heart) apply the knowledge of God and His word which is the skill in living godly~ and then understanding is to act upon our enlightened minds and hearts by the will (this last is known in the will).

How did I do? Did I err at all?

bonnie :shades

 

[Sparkey]

:D ~Sparrow

The answer?

If Silver is Knowledge,
If Wisdom is Gold,
What then is Understanding?
Understanding is to depart evil (Touch not the unclean thing)

So for my simple intellect to sum it up~ knowledge is required that we may aquire and learn to know how to apply what we know ( this is known in the mind ).To gain wisdom~(this is known in the heart) apply the knowledge of God and His word which is the skill in living godly~ and then understanding is to act upon our enlightened minds and hearts by the will (this last is known in the will).

How did I do? Did I err at all?

bonnie :shades

I'm learning from you here. This is what we are to do: to sit with each other and learn from our hearts - to share while reclining at His table, the bread that He serves. Some from me, some from you. Our conversations reflect our hearts, yes?

Take me down in your estimation because it is God who lifts your head. We serve each other, yes? One of the skills that I would like to acquire is the ability to still my heart and listen to others (yes, you!) in much the same manner that I have been trained to listen to the Lord. One of the foolish things about preaching is that we reach into heaven as high as we can to bring back the best we find there. This can make one look 'wise" but as soon as that happens, God is faithful to show the folly to the man who is wise in his own heart. The words that come through me also cut in to me.

Still, as saints share the truth in kindness, the "background noise" fades and we get to ponder the gifts and fruits that are administered and distributed by the Holy Spirit amongst us. WE are joined together. We lift our hands and turn our eyes to Him. "Touch not the Unclean Thing" considers that as we are defiled within by sin (any sin) - we are self limiting our access to our heavenly Father upon whom we depend for all things.

Have you ever gone to your Father with a heavy conscience? Compare that to what we are admonished to do together as we burst into the ThroneRoom of the Most High giggling and laughing in true fellowship as childrens and heirs of the promise of the King. If we refrain and hold back our hand from each other because somebody ate pork or somebody else didn't, are we not yet again dividing that which simply can not be divided? All such things are folly. I'm not saying that we need to be unequally yoked or to touch the dead thing. In this sense it is okay to understand that we can let the dead bury the dead, yes? Some sin leads to death, not all sin does. When we see our brother sinning (and I don't mean pork-eaters either, except in a spiritual sense) we are told to "ask" and God will give life.

The discussion often centers on "The Law" because it is there where we can finding meaning to the terms. The law itself was added till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. A mediator is a "go-between" but a "go-between" can't do this for one only. And we know that God is one. Is the law therefore against the promises of God? Is that what Jesus is doing? Going back and forth between the children of the Promise and the Law?

Scripture has concluded all under sin, so that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. All those who believe in Christ have stopped sin. Do we yet walk in the world? Should we not each wash the feet of others? To touch back to the topic, we are not to go backwards and retreat to previous idolatry and adulteries. God sees much clearer into our hearts than we can pretend to. Touch not the unclean thing includes admonishment to not touch the dead. We've heard of whitewashed graves in the time of Jesus? Some religious leaders had taken the command about 'clean and unclean' too far and way too literal.

Did you err? Not in my sight, no. I like what you said and also like the spirit in which it was offered (although I do not deserve it too much). I want what you have, you see? I want the ability to be shown sacred secrets from the hand of the Almighty and remain meek and lowly like Christ did. It's not easy because my flesh is directly opposed and the battle inside of me continues. I don't know that I can "sum it up" but rather tend to agree with John (was it John?) who concluded about how many books could be made on such subjects. So many that they could fill the whole world, right? It would be a joyful work though, well at least to those who like to write.

~Sparrow

 

[sheshisown]

~Sparrow~

Take me down in your estimation because it is God who lifts your head. We serve each other, yes? One of the skills that I would like to acquire is the ability to still my heart and listen to others (yes, you!) in much the same manner that I have been trained to listen to the Lord. One of the foolish things about preaching is that we reach into heaven as high as we can to bring back the best we find there. This can make one look 'wise" but as soon as that happens, God is faithful to show the folly to the man who is wise in his own heart. The words that come through me also cut in to me.

Precious brother... We serve each other, absolutely, yes. Forgive me, if my typed words exalt unduly the Lord's servant. And it is true also that in weakness and by God's grace I esteem all others in His body before myself. I Know full well my sin~ I cannot truly know any other person’s for their intentions are for the Word's sword to divide as it does my own. But my intents are at least partially revealed to me by God~ Who is GOOD to shield me from knowing them all. I would die of shame of wallow in pity. Who can stand before The Mighty One?

That you have wisdom and have been anointed to share it~ is fully the calling and gifting of the Holy Spirit. He decides how we impart the beauties of heaven to one another. It is GOOD to be gifted and thou it is fearful to think about, a anyone who has been entrusted with unfolded truth must walk in the gift or be like Elijah~ as the Lord's words burned within him. :Study

Have you ever gone to your Father with a heavy conscience? Compare that to what we are admonished to do together as we burst into the ThroneRoom of the Most High giggling and laughing in true fellowship as childrens and heirs of the promise of the King. If we refrain and hold back our hand from each other because somebody ate pork or somebody else didn't, are we not yet again dividing that which simply can not be divided? All such things are folly. I'm not saying that we need to be unequally yoked or to touch the dead thing. In this sense it is okay to understand that we can let the dead bury the dead, yes? Some sin leads to death, not all sin does. When we see our brother sinning (and I don't mean pork-eaters either, except in a spiritual sense) we are told to "ask" and God will give life. The discussion often centers on "The Law" because it is there where we can finding meaning to the terms. The law itself was added till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. A mediator is a "go-between" but a "go-between" can't do this for one only. And we know that God is one. Is the law therefore against the promises of God? Is that what Jesus is doing? Going back and forth between the children of the Promise and the Law?

The word tells us to come into His presence… boldly... thou He receives us as His One Body, certainly He deals with us in turn. I do not understand or know of the Body that is One without its many individual parts. Our fellowship is filled with childish sin, one gossips one parades one strives another envies. Not that the sin is less evil for each sin marked the blessed holy body of the Lamb. Yet God the Father sees only His lovely Son ~ in me, in you. Wonder! :infinity

Have I held back my hand of friendship and love in the name of some standard of men devised, or the Law of God by which I am condemned myself without Christ? I pray not, if so~ God forgive and cleanse my heart and my way to each one for peace’ sake.

As I spoke of unequal yoking it was a warning (I took this morning) that I studied further from a devotional on a website. I was blessed in the corrective rod of God and I shared it. Especially, as it told of the perfect yoke of Christ, again I hoped to bless each one. My discussion centered on the word, not on the Law. Yet at times I love the Word as the scribes of old loved the Law… I can see where this may hinder another~ and I receive the admonition from my brothers loving concern for the whole Bride.
I see the word is seed. Jesus our Mediator imparts the whole seed by planting it individually after He has tilled each heart. Sometimes He calls us the cast the seed about, for He knows where each syllable will land. We may then water one another’s ground and shade each other’s plant ~ yes. However, there are infestations which can spread and devour the good seed. But in our orchard there is no fumigation only irrigation ~ no weed killers only fertilizer ~ Sometimes we even bend too far and break to guard a little one from careless sowers who send the seed out like darts.

How can the Law through which God’s promises became necessary be against what it helped to establish?

Scripture has concluded all under sin, so that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

:yes

All those who believe in Christ have stopped sin.

Do we yet walk in the world? Should we not each wash the feet of others?

I have so long loved the witness of Abigail yet come FAR from her example…

To touch back to the topic, we are not to go backwards and retreat to previous idolatry and adulteries. God sees much clearer into our hearts than we can pretend to. Touch not the unclean thing includes admonishment to not touch the dead. We've heard of whitewashed graves in the time of Jesus? Some religious leaders had taken the command about 'clean and unclean' too far and way too literal.

And so I ask for the Lord to search it, to reveal wicked ways in me, and He is faithful…ever. Yes, we can go too far with the word. This is evident when standards set by men are set up for crowds of Christians to follow. Where we make our love of Lord unite with politics or economics or busi~ness ordering. :crazy

Yet we can trust God to find a way, our Way-Maker. Jesus laid down His life once, and created the bridge that that needed. And now today we walk over his lovely lain body to meet one another and to greet one another… to sing songs and hymns and spiritual songs to one another… A blessing we become then.

Did you err? Not in my sight, no. I like what you said and also like the spirit in which it was offered (although I do not deserve it too much). I want what you have, you see? I want the ability to be shown sacred secrets from the hand of the Almighty and remain meek and lowly like Christ did. It's not easy because my flesh is directly opposed and the battle inside of me continues. I don't know that I can "sum it up" but rather tend to agree with John (was it John?) who concluded about how many books could be made on such subjects. So many that they could fill the whole world, right? It would be a joyful work though, well at least to those who like to write.

I did not intend to haphazardly sum up the finer deeper things you were sharing with us Sparrow~ :opps I was seeking to get the gist of it, so I could learn and let Him add, that’s one way the Lord teaches me. I pray your hearts desire comes to fruition in this life brother dear… yet the knowing of things unwritten, that I admit is difficult for me to receive. For the word has been finished ~ for now. To be continued in heaven. For me~ It is enuf to take in the written revelation and grow in working it out as He is working it into me. As a fellow writer perhaps I may join my brother in that blessed work in heaven one day! :nod

Our glorious Lord bless and keep our lives and souls in Christ till He comes~~~
bonnie[/i] :shades

 

[Sparkey]

"And so I ask for the Lord to search it, to reveal wicked ways in me"

If I were to pick a single thing sis - and point to the 'err' it would be < here >
You are marvelously clean. Inner beauty clean.

I see your God dancing over you. Taking delight in you. Pleased.
You are pleasing to him! Just as you are, just who you are. Delightfully pleasing.
I wish I could go up to heaven right now and hear directly what He might say if He were to give me that, I would fetch it down. That to me is the gift of Prophecy in operation. I want this but don't need it to know that you have and are and will continue to please Him.

Hear it from me if you must but rather take it from Him.
My suggestion is instead of asking Him to help you become holier -- ask Him to tell you about you. He has shown me things about me that I didn't even know myself. It brought me to my knees in another of those precious moments. Ask Him to show you (however it is that He does) but to show you whatever it is that pleases Him to show you. You might be surprised. :shocked!

Okay, here is the prayer I have for you in this: I want Him to be the lifter of your head. (and I am secretly asking that He show you this truth in a very striking unmistakable way).

Sparrowhawke

(lol - oops there I go again - stamp a totopic on my forehead, please?)

 

[whirlwind]

"And so I ask for the Lord to search it, to reveal wicked ways in me"

If I were to pick a single thing sis - and point to the 'err' it would be < here >
You are marvelously clean. Inner beauty clean.

I see your God dancing over you. Taking delight in you. Pleased.
You are pleasing to him! Just as you are, just who you are. Delightfully pleasing.
I wish I could go up to heaven right now and hear directly what He might say if He were to give me that, I would fetch it down. That to me is the gift of Prophecy in operation. I want this but don't need it to know that you have and are and will continue to please Him.

Hear it from me if you must but rather take it from Him.
My suggestion is instead of asking Him to help you become holier -- ask Him to tell you about you. He has shown me things about me that I didn't even know myself. It brought me to my knees in another of those precious moments. Ask Him to show you (however it is that He does) but to show you whatever it is that pleases Him to show you. You might be surprised. :shocked!

Okay, here is the prayer I have for you in this: I want Him to be the lifter of your head. (and I am secretly asking that He show you this truth in a very striking unmistakable way).

Sparrowhawke

(lol - oops there I go again - stamp a totopic on my forehead, please?)

As the writer of the OP allow me to say.....you, Jack Sparrow and SheisHisown, are certainly given my permission to take this thread wherever you two please. It is delightful to read what you both write and I thank each of you. :yes

 

[whirlwind]

... But, what of the "touch not the unclean thing?"

...Throughout the Bible God compares adultery to idolatry. ...I believe that He uses this analogy so we understand how He feels when His wife chooses another one to worship....adultery/idolatry.

Idolatry, worship of another god, is the unclean thing we are not to touch. Notice in the descriptions of the word "touch" as used in scripture, we see that it is a euphemism for lying with a woman and relations with someone. This physical act describes the spiritual act.

Is not worshipping another god, or gods, a simple matter? On the surface I would say....Yes, but we know that Satan is the great deceiver and doesn't work openly. [/b]

Scripture uses the word - 'JOIN' or 'JOINED' (TOUCH = JOINED within this study)
Other uses of 'TOUCH' - Jesus 'touched the leper' and he became 'clean'. Mt 8:3

Hosea 4:17-18
17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
18 Their drink is sour: they have committed whoredom continually:
her rulers with shame do love, Give ye. KJV

1 Corinthians 6:16-17
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body?
for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.KJV

What happens LITERALLY in the flesh, becomes a SPIRITUAL analogy, symbolism.
Who am I 'JOINED' to...? If I am dead to the world, I am alive (JOINED) to Christ!

Hosea 4:11-12
11 Whoredom (harlotry) and wine and new wine take away the heart ('understanding' ASV).
12 My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them:
for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err,
and they have gone a whoring from under their God. KJV

The 'SPIRIT' of whoredoms/harlotry = everything, and anything that comes between us and God.
From people, to property, to money, even pride has it's hold on me/us! I can't say I'm free of everything as I still have a credit card, property, some of that 'green' stuff. OH...don't forget the computer I'm writing this on, sometimes I feal I would be 'lost' without it! ... :help

My hope - the Lord will deliver me/us from these 'things' that have such a strong hold on us. Oh, some major things are already GONE!...but there's more to go. Something like an onion...one layer at the time gets tossed away!

The green stuff, a place to live and our wonderful computers are necessities in this flesh life. The computer is a tool in our work for Him, the deliverer of the Sword. (the Holy Spirit certainly was at work in providing mine ) In considering it's use.....

Psalms 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, Which teacheth my hands to war, And my fingers to fight: :type

But, we aren't alone in this battle....

Proverbs 6:12 A naughty person, a wicked man, Walketh with a froward mouth. He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, He teacheth with his fingers;

In reading that it brought to mind the discussion we had a few weeks ago about "feet." We are the feet of Christ and His Words are spoken through us...His children. The wicked men are the feet of the enemy and they too...teach with their fingers.

So, as we peel the onion we can't throw the parts away that are needed, the parts He provides and blesses us with but our duty in this contract is to be certain that those "things" remain just things and never come between us and our Father....or be so treasured that we worship them.

In the post about your daughter you made me realize, in the context of "Touch not the Unclean Thing," that where the two new-age philosophers teach SELF....that is a/the unclean thing. Putting our trust in or worshipping SELF is idolatry.

 

[sheshisown]

:waving whirlwind~

As the writer of the OP allow me to say.....you, Jack Sparrow and SheisHisown, are certainly given my permission to take this thread wherever you two please. It is delightful to read what you both write and I thank each of you.

"HUGS" :adore You are precious whirlwind... But SO much more precious in the eyes of our Jesus~ you got Him grinning this morning my love.


BTW~ dear girl~ you do know that Jack Sparrow was a ~ pirate right? :scared

We are accepted in the Beloved... pirates and all! sheshisown

 

[Ret]

The Riddle came from trying to see, trying so very hard to see:
If Silver is Knowledge,
If Wisdom is Gold,
What then is Understanding?

It is the riddle of this Sparrow, the riddle of "He-Who-Remembers" (as I called myself then), who searched diligently to discover the answer for more than ten years. The answer is part of the topic. My kids laugh at me because it was such a dark thing. One that pressed and goaded my search into mysteries found in the Bible.

• But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.
  And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding,
  Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house,
  In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night:
  And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtle of heart. [/*:m:uv1mkznv]

Nay Lord, I shall not go to that house (I lied). Lord, is this understanding?

Who is blind like His servant? In my later years is given to know the answer to the riddle.
I am the harlot. I am the idolatress and the adulteress. I've seen the actions of my hands. I have committed harlotry under ever good tree and upon every hill in Jerusalem. O! Jerusalem. I long and crave for the Peace to be found in your city and to gaze upon Zion. I have found folly, we all have. Who can say they have not turned their eyes away from Him whom my soul loves? But WHAT IS UNDERSTANDING???

The answer?

• If Silver is Knowledge,
  If Wisdom is Gold,
  What then is Understanding?
  Understanding is to depart evil (Touch not the unclean thing)

~Sparrowhawk

God has blessed you with some powerful thoughts, Sparrow. Thoughts that are beyond those that live on this earth...called the 'land of the living'....So, I had to go back to Job and review...

Job 28:12-21 & 28

12 But where shall wisdom be found? and where is the place of understanding?
13 Man knoweth not the price thereof; neither is it found in the land of the living.
14 The depth saith, It is not in me: and the sea saith, It is not with me.
15 It cannot be gotten for gold, neither shall silver be weighed for the price thereof.
16 It cannot be valued with the gold of Ophir, with the precious onyx, or the sapphire.
17 The gold and the crystal cannot equal it: and the exchange of it shall not be for jewels of fine gold.
18 No mention shall be made of coral, or of pearls: for the price of wisdom is above rubies.
19 The topaz of Ethiopia shall not equal it, neither shall it be valued with pure gold.
20 Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?
21 Seeing it is hid from the eyes of all living, and kept close from the fowls of the air.

28 And unto man he said, Behold,
the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and
to depart from evil is understanding. KJV (Touch not the unclean thing)

....... :amen ..........and.......... :amen