Bible Study Tree of Life = Immortality

[Jay T]

In order to possess an endless existence, man must continue to partake of the tree of life.

Deprived of this, his vitality would gradually diminish until life should become extinct.
It was Satan's plan that Adam and Eve should by disobedience incur God's displeasure; and then, if they failed to obtain forgiveness, he hoped that they would eat of the tree of life, and thus perpetuate an existence of sin and misery.

But after man's fall, holy angels were immediately commissioned to guard the tree of life (Genesis 3:22-24).
Around these angels flashed beams of light having the appearance of a glittering sword.

None of the family of Adam were permitted to pass the barrier to partake of the life-giving fruit; hence there is not an immortal sinner.

The tide of woe that flowed from the transgression of our first parents is regarded by many as too awful a consequence for so small a sin, and they impeach the wisdom and justice of God in His dealings with man. But if they would look more deeply into this question, they might discern their error. God created man after His own likeness, free from sin. The earth was to be peopled with beings only a little lower than the angels; but their obedience must be tested; for God would not permit the world to be filled with those who would disregard His law.

Yet, in His great mercy, He appointed Adam no severe test.

And the very lightness of the prohibition made the sin exceedingly great. If Adam could not bear the smallest of tests, he could not have endured a greater trial had he been entrusted with higher responsibilities.

Had some great test been appointed Adam, then those whose hearts incline to evil would have excused themselves by saying, "This is a trivial matter, and God is not so particular about little things."

And there would be continual transgression in things looked upon as small, and which pass unrebuked among men.
But the Lord has made it evident that sin in any degree is offensive to Him.

To Eve it seemed a small thing to disobey God by tasting the fruit of the forbidden tree, and to tempt her husband also to transgress; but their sin opened the floodgates of woe upon the world.
Who can know, in the moment of temptation, the terrible consequences that will result from one wrong step?

Many who teach that the law of God is not binding upon man, urge that it is impossible for him to obey its precepts.
But if this were true, why did Adam suffer the penalty of transgression?

The sin of our first parents brought guilt and sorrow upon the world, and had it not been for the goodness and mercy of God, would have plunged the race into hopeless despair.

Let none deceive themselves.

"The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

 

[Bick]

Tree of life=immortality

Jay T: I'm not sure what you mean in your opening statement,
quote:
In order to possess an endless existence, man must continue to partake of the tree of life.

It was a lesson to man, so he wouldn't take his immortal life (up to that point) for granted.
This was one of the downfalls of satan, who swelled with pride in 'his' gifts, of vast intelligence and beauty, above every other creature God created in the universe.

If you mean we are in Christ "the tree of life", and He is in us, and we are raised (potentially) with Him, then I could agree.

Christ is not the tree of life.
And, that would make no sense in the light of Genesis 3:22-24.

As for Adam, and also Eve, in the garden before "the fall", isn't it possible that they ate of the tree of life?

Yes, that is what happened. But once man sinned...they were then forbidden access to it.

Also, every translation I've read, says they were cherubim, not angels, who guarded the way to the tree of life.

Chreubims, are a special class of angels. And they are mentioned some 67 times in the Bible.

Where did you get the idea they were beams of light, not a flaming sword
the cherubim used to guard the way? Young's Concordance says the word is "sword".

To human eyes, wouldn't angels be glowing in very bright light ?

 

[Bick]

Tree of life=immortality

Jay T: I'm not sure what you mean in your opening statement,
quote:
In order to possess an endless existence, man must continue to partake of the tree of life.

If you mean we are in Christ "the tree of life", and He is in us, and we are raised (potentially) with Him, then I could agree.

As for Adam, and also Eve, in the garden before "the fall", isn't it possible that they ate of the tree of life? God did not forbid it. They must have had a wonderful curiosity to taste every thing edible.

Part of the confusion is that the KJV, and others, say, if they ate of the tree of life they would live "forever". The word translated "forever", is "olam", whose basic meaning is "age-lasting" according to Young's
Concordance. It could mean the age of a man, animals, events etc. or an unknown period of time.

As it is, Adam lived 969 years.

Also, every translation I've read, says they were cherubim, not angels, who guarded the way to the tree of life.

Where did you get the idea they were beams of light, not a flaming sword
the cherubim used to guard the way? Young's Concordance says the word is "sword".

Enough for now, Bick

 

[yesha]

In order to possess an endless existence, man must continue to partake of the tree of life.

Deprived of this, his vitality would gradually diminish until life should become extinct.
It was Satan's plan that Adam and Eve should by disobedience incur God's displeasure; and then, if they failed to obtain forgiveness, he hoped that they would eat of the tree of life, and thus perpetuate an existence of sin and misery.

By continually partake of the fruit, I presume you mean man must continue to eat it forever or they would die.
If this is so, then even if they ate from the tree of life, if it was cut off, would not sin and misery be cut off aswell?

None of the family of Adam were permitted to pass the barrier to partake of the life-giving fruit; hence there is not an immortal sinner.

Would Satan classify as an immortal sinner?

And there would be continual transgression in things looked upon as small, and which pass unrebuked among men.
But the Lord has made it evident that sin in any degree is offensive to Him.

a good insight

Many who teach that the law of God is not binding upon man, urge that it is impossible for him to obey its precepts.
But if this were true, why did Adam suffer the penalty of transgression?

This raises the question for me of is it possible to not sin. Surely it must be possible, as Christ demonstrated, yet the scripture says that all men sin. I suppose it is possible, but only by God's power, not our own??? I suppose that Adam didn't have a 'sin nature', and therefore for him to sin, would be like us not sinning, it is against our nature, and perhaps likewise Adams sin was only possible with Satans influance. So perhaps Adams sin, which may seem small to us who are familar with sin, was for Adam a huge, seemingly unachievable disaster with an accordingly huge penelty.

"The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

Nasty stuff, that sin.

 

[andy153]

The purpose of the tree of life is not to "possess" an endless existence.

Why have you posted the same post twice under different headings ???

with love and respect , andy153

 

[Jay T]

In order to possess an endless existence, man must continue to partake of the tree of life.

[quote:e996d]
By continually partake of the fruit, I presume you mean man must continue to eat it forever or they would die.
If this is so, then even if they ate from the tree of life, if it was cut off, would not sin and misery be cut off aswell?

Exactly, as explained in scripture.....sin results in every description of pain and suffering this world has ever known, since sin began.

Man was cut off from the tree of life once he sinned, which sin is dewscribed as breaking God's commandments.
And in Revelation 22:14, we are told that those who obey the commandments of God are then allowed the right to have access to the tree of life again.

[quote:e996d]
None of the family of Adam were permitted to pass the barrier to partake of the life-giving fruit; hence there is not an immortal sinner.

Would Satan classify as an immortal sinner?

color=blue] How can satan be an immortal sinner, when we are told in scripture, that he is destined for the Lake of Fire, which will destroy him for all time, once he has paid the prise for all the sins, he has caused men to commit ?[/color]

Many who teach that the law of God is not binding upon man, urge that it is impossible for him to obey its precepts.
But if this were true, why did Adam suffer the penalty of transgression?

This raises the question for me of is it possible to not sin. Surely it must be possible, as Christ demonstrated, yet the scripture says that all men sin. I suppose it is possible, but only by God's power, not our own???

Jesus Christ went on record as telling people....'go and sin no more' (John 5:14 & 8:11).
But, He also said, 'that without me, ye can do nothing'.
So, the evidence is clear.....to live a life without sin, we must have Jesus Christ, living out his life 'in' us.

"The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

Nasty stuff, that sin.

[/quote:e996d][/quote:e996d] And since the modern Christian world has failed, to understand what the Bible defines as sin.....many will be LOST ...as scripture says, in Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[yesha]

How can satan be an immortal sinner, when we are told in scripture, that he is destined for the Lake of Fire, which will destroy him for all time, once he has paid the prise for all the sins, he has caused men to commit ?

Is Satan, along with the angels, then not considered immortal? I thought that he/they were.
Do they need to eat from the tree of life too?
Doesn't the scriptures say that Satan will be tormented day and night for ever and ever in the lake of "fire and brimstone"?

And since the modern Christian world has failed, to understand what the Bible defines as sin.....many will be LOST ...as scripture says, in Matthew 7:21-23.

How does the modern Christian world understand sin, and what is the correct understanding in your opinion?

 

[Jay T]

And since the modern Christian world has failed, to understand what the Bible defines as sin.....many will be LOST ...as scripture says, in Matthew 7:21-23.

How does the modern Christian world understand sin, and what is the correct understanding in your opinion?

Without an understanding of what sin is...how can anyone be saved 'from' sin ?

Maybe that is why, the Bible says.......
Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple".

 

[yesha]

Without an understanding of what sin is...how can anyone be saved 'from' sin ?

I'm not sure that that answers my question. You said that modern Christianty doesn't understand what sin is. I think that most people do know what sin is, whether they are Christian or not. I was wondering what you think sin is that would be different from the common conception. Or do you mean by that that you feel most self professed Christians don't care if they sin or not?

But you raise another question here. Can one be saved from something that they don't even know of? In terms on consequences of sin, certainly. Someone who refrains from some sin, who intellectually has no concept of how that sin may ill-effect their life, can indeed be saved from the consequences by simply trusting in the Word.

But in terms of knowing what sin is, or knowing the Law, Paul demonstrates (Romans 7) that our knowledge of the Law actually condemns us, and does not save us, because we are sinful by nature. So one might expect that you must know sin, so that you might not sin, and then be saved from it, but knowing it only identifies for us how sinful we are, and does not save us at all, but draws us to realize how only God can save us.

Rom 7:10
10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
(NIV)

 

[Jay T]

Without an understanding of what sin is...how can anyone be saved 'from' sin ?

[quote:e5bb6]
I'm not sure that that answers my question. You said that modern Christianty doesn't understand what sin is. I think that most people do know what sin is, whether they are Christian or not. I was wondering what you think sin is that would be different from the common conception.

THe Bible defines sin this way:
#1.)Romans 3:20......."for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin".

#2.) 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law".
(Now, both these Bible verses mentions the Law, but which law ?)
Paul tells us.....

#3.) Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet".

Had the Christian world understood what the Bible defines as sin...they would not hold their worship services on Sunday, which violates the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).

Or do you mean by that that you feel most self professed Christians don't care if they sin or not?

This may be more true than most think.
It becomes a case of, "God Says, But I Think"

No one will enter heaven until, they have overcome sin in their lives (Revelation 3:5)

But you raise another question here. Can one be saved from something that they don't even know of?

Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God...."

In terms on consequences of sin, certainly. Someone who refrains from some sin, who intellectually has no concept of how that sin may ill-effect their life, can indeed be saved from the consequences by simply trusting in the Word.

How does one trust in something they know nothing about ?

But in terms of knowing what sin is, or knowing the Law, Paul demonstrates (Romans 7) that our knowledge of the Law actually condemns us, and does not save us, because we are sinful by nature. So one might expect that you must know sin, so that you might not sin, and then be saved from it, but knowing it only identifies for us how sinful we are, and does not save us at all, but draws us to realize how only God can save us.

[/quote:e5bb6]Exactly.....
Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple".

Once the law reveals our sin...then we are to go to Jesus, and ask for His forgivness, and repent of 'past' sin, to do them no more.

 

[yesha]

THe Bible defines sin this way:
#1.)Romans 3:20......."for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin".
#2.) 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law".

I'm with you here. Transgressing the Law that God has called you to obey would definitly be sin.

(Now, both these Bible verses mentions the Law, but which law ?)
Paul tells us.....
#3.) Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet".

Which law is a good question. But by this answer, due to context of this verse, you make me think that you believe that all Christians are bound to OT Law. Is this your view , and if so, which OT laws?

Had the Christian world understood what the Bible defines as sin...they would not hold their worship services on Sunday, which violates the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).

You've really lost me here. Are you suggesting that those who worship on Sunday are somehow breaking the sabbath?
If so how?

No one will enter heaven until, they have overcome sin in their lives (Revelation 3:5)

By overcome sin, do you mean that they no longer commit any sin?

Once the law reveals our sin...then we are to go to Jesus, and ask for His forgivness, and repent of 'past' sin, to do them no more.

It sounds so easy. Yet is there anyone who claims that they have no sin in their lives?

Now I had a thought about what you said, "Without an understanding of what sin is...how can anyone be saved 'from' sin ?".
Certainly Christ's sacrifice will forgives us of sin we know nothing about. Consider the guilt offering for example.
But consider the Holy Spirit, is not He our Law? Or as Paul uses, Christ's Law. Is not the Law written in our hearts. Someone can feel the guilt of some sin, along with it's sting, without even knowing whether or not the bible says anything about it.
Would you agree to that statement?

Jer 31:33-34
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."
(NIV)

 

[Jay T]

[#3.) Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? [is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet".

Which law is a good question. But by this answer, due to context of this verse, you make me think that you believe that all Christians are bound to OT Law. Is this your view , and if so, which OT laws?

The Law the Christ wrote out Himself, on Mt. Sinai, the 10 commandments (Exodus 31:18).
The Law which Jesus said would only pass away, 'after' heaven and earth passed away, first (Matthew 5:17,18)

Had the Christian world understood what the Bible defines as sin...they would not hold their worship services on Sunday, which violates the 4th commandment (Exodus 20:8-11).

You've really lost me here. Are you suggesting that those who worship on Sunday are somehow breaking the sabbath?
If so how?

To break just one of the commandments, is to break them all, (James 2:10-12)

No one will enter heaven until, they have overcome sin in their lives (Revelation 3:5)

By overcome sin, do you mean that they no longer commit any sin?

God points out a people who have done that very thing, but not in their own human strenght, but by the same faith Jesus had:Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus".

Once the law reveals our sin...then we are to go to Jesus, and ask for His forgivness, and repent of 'past' sin, to do them no more.

It sounds so easy. Yet is there anyone who claims that they have no sin in their lives?/quote] No man may clain such as thing because it is not men who live the sinless life, but Christ who lives within them that does the sinless living: 1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin.....because he is born of God".
[quote:719d5]
Now I had a thought about what you said, "Without an understanding of what sin is...how can anyone be saved 'from' sin ?".
Certainly Christ's sacrifice will forgives us of sin we know nothing about. Consider the guilt offering for example.
But consider the Holy Spirit, is not He our Law? Or as Paul uses, Christ's Law. Is not the Law written in our hearts. Someone can feel the guilt of some sin, along with it's sting, without even knowing whether or not the bible says anything about it.
Would you agree to that statement?

[/quote:719d5]Since the Holy Spirit inspired men to write the Bible, it is thru the Bible one gains faith (Romans 10:17), and Jesus said, that man shall live by brea alone but by 'EVERY' word, that proceeds from the mouth of God....which is only found in the Bible (Matthew 4:4).
A person can only, be 'born-again' thru the word of God ( 1 Peter 1:23).....and it takes the Law of God, in the process of converting a person: Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple".

 

[yesha]

The Law the Christ wrote out Himself, on Mt. Sinai, the 10 commandments (Exodus 31:18).
The Law which Jesus said would only pass away, 'after' heaven and earth passed away, first (Matthew 5:17,18)

You feel, then, that all Christians are bound to the ten commandments, and no other OT Law?

To break just one of the commandments, is to break them all, (James 2:10-12)

So you're saying that Christians who worship God on Sunday are breaking some kind of commandment, and therefore according to the above scripture also break the commandment to not work on the Sabbath. If that is correct, then exactly what commandment is being broken by those who Worship on Sunday?

No man may clain such as thing because it is not men who live the sinless life, but Christ who lives within them that does the sinless living

That may be, but I'm wondering if you actually know anybody, or feel yourself, that you have 'acheived perfection', and no longer have any sin to confess?

Since the Holy Spirit inspired men to write the Bible, it is thru the Bible one gains faith (Romans 10:17), and Jesus said, that man shall live by brea alone but by 'EVERY' word, that proceeds from the mouth of God....which is only found in the Bible (Matthew 4:4).
A person can only, be 'born-again' thru the word of God ( 1 Peter 1:23).....and it takes the Law of God, in the process of converting a person

There certainly is much use for the Word of God, but do you also not think that one can be forgiven of sins they do not even know they have commited?

 

[Jay T]

You feel, then, that all Christians are bound to the ten commandments, and no other OT Law?

The 10 commandments cannot be altered because they reveal what sin is: 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law:.And without the Law there is no sin(Romans 4:15), therefore no need of a Savior.
But, some other laws are still active such as the dietary laws in Leviticus, as shown in Isaiah 66:15-17, because when Jesus returns to this earth, those eating PORK, and the other abominations...will be destroyed.

To break just one of the commandments, is to break them all, (James 2:10-12)

So you're saying that Christians who worship God on Sunday are breaking some kind of commandment, and therefore according to the above scripture also break the commandment to not work on the Sabbath. If that is correct, then exactly what commandment is being broken by those who Worship on Sunday?

satan has changed the Lord's day, as Bible prophecy said he would attempt (Daniel 7:25...'think to change times and laws'). He has subsituted his day of worship in place of God's.

There certainly is much use for the Word of God, but do you also not think that one can be forgiven of sins they do not even know they have commited?

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Matthew 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God".
How can any Christian plead ignorance, when they have access to a Bible ?

Hosea" 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee.....seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God.."

 

[yesha]

The 10 commandments cannot be altered because they reveal what sin is: 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law:.And without the Law there is no sin(Romans 4:15), therefore no need of a Savior.
But, some other laws are still active such as the dietary laws in Leviticus, as shown in Isaiah 66:15-17, because when Jesus returns to this earth, those eating PORK, and the other abominations...will be destroyed.

So we know know to keep the 10 commandments, along with the diatary Laws.
Do you also feel that all males should be physically circumsized, as required by OT law?
Or people should pray facing Jerusalem?
What is your belief on all the purity laws?
What about wearing clothing made of two different kinds of materials?

satan has changed the Lord's day, as Bible prophecy said he would attempt (Daniel 7:25...'think to change times and laws'). He has subsituted his day of worship in place of God's.

So we know know that you believe that Christians should worship God on Saturday only, and not on Sunday, and that those who do worship God on Sunday, are actually sinning in their worshiping of God.
Do you think that the scripture has changed to show the "Lord's Day" as Sunday, or do you think that people are misinterpreting it to mean Sunday?

How can any Christian plead ignorance, when they have access to a Bible ?

So it's your belief then, that there is no sin that people could be unaware of because people now have access to the bible. Suppose someone had not finished reading the bible, or had not fully comprehended the depth of sin, or have misunderstood some passage, and unintentionally sins, is it your belief that there is no forgivesness for these because the person must first be aware of the sin, and then repent, and only then would they find forgiveness?

Also, I didn't catch it if you answered this already. Do you know anybody, including yourself, who has 'achieved perfection' and no longer has any sin to confess?

BTW, do you know of some kind of denomination that shares your views?

 

[Jay T]

So we know know to keep the 10 commandments, along with the diatary Laws.
Do you also feel that all males should be physically circumsized, as required by OT law?
Or people should pray facing Jerusalem?
What is your belief on all the purity laws?
What about wearing clothing made of two different kinds of materials?

And, it is the lack of the Bible knowledge, that satan has the advantage, over the Christian world.

satan has changed the Lord's day, as Bible prophecy said he would attempt (Daniel 7:25...'think to change times and laws'). He has subsituted his day of worship in place of God's.

So we know know that you believe that Christians should worship God on Saturday only, and not on Sunday, and that those who do worship God on Sunday, are actually sinning in their worshiping of God.

Matthew 15:9 "But in vain ...they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men".

Do you think that the scripture has changed to show the "Lord's Day" as Sunday, or do you think that people are misinterpreting it to mean Sunday?[quote:f73be]
God (Christ) has identified the Lord's day, as the 7th day Sabbath:
#1.) Exodus 20:8-11
#2.) Isaiah 58:13,14
#3.) Ezekiel 20:12,20
#4.) Matthew 12:8
#5.) Mark 2:28
#6.) Luke 6:5

[quote:f73be]
How can any Christian plead ignorance, when they have access to a Bible ?

So it's your belief then, that there is no sin that people could be unaware of because people now have access to the bible. Suppose someone had not finished reading the bible, or had not fully comprehended the depth of sin, or have misunderstood some passage, and unintentionally sins, is it your belief that there is no forgivesness for these because the person must first be aware of the sin, and then repent, and only then would they find forgiveness?

John 15:22 "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin".

Also, I didn't catch it if you answered this already. Do you know anybody, including yourself, who has 'achieved perfection' and no longer has any sin to confess?

Christianity is a growth process....as Jesus Christ describes in (Mark 4:26-29).

BTW, do you know of some kind of denomination that shares your views?

[/quote:f73be][/quote:f73be]Forget denominations...(as I prefer to remain silent, on the matter)
The Bible itself, is what any Christian should concern themselves with !

 

[yesha]

And, it is the lack of the Bible knowledge, that satan has the advantage, over the Christian world.

Are you saying you don't yet have those answers? Or that you do have an opinion and don't wish to share it.

God (Christ) has identified the Lord's day, as the 7th day Sabbath:
#4.) Matthew 12:8
#5.) Mark 2:28
#6.) Luke 6:5

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, therefore the Sabbath is the Lord's day.
I guess that's not unreasonable, even though I think everybody understand's the Lord's Day to be Sunday.

You didn't answer this question for me.
According to you belief's does one first have to know of, and then repent of thier sin to be forgiven, or will not God forgive someone who sins unintentionally?
Another question, do you feel God would forgive someone who sins intentionally?

Christianity is a growth process....as Jesus Christ describes in (Mark 4:26-29).

And therefore they still have sin in their lives. But in your view can they be saved with unrepented sin?

Forget denominations...(as I prefer to remain silent, on the matter)
The Bible itself, is what any Christian should concern themselves with !

Sure, but I'm just wondering if there is anybody else who shares you views.

 

[John the Baptist]

Elijah here: Sure, I do! :fadein: Some of them anyhow :wink: .

Most problems with the sin question can be solved if we have a understanding of the start of sin & the finished product. James 1:15.

1 John 5:16-17 tells us of both endings. Not unto death & then unto death.
It can be the same evil, (any & all known sin) yet, when fully MATURE it is secured as either saved or lost. Over coming, or being overcome.

Psalms 19:7-13 gives in depth LIGHT on this subject if read prayerfully.
First we see the PERFECT LAW of the Lord able to CONVERT! John 3:3.
On down we see how we determine our error. (sin) Then take note in verse 13? Psalms 19:13 states that it is the presumptuous sins that are known, and that are kept before us (see Romans 8:14) & we reject the Lord's power & Grace to overcome them, that lead to the sin against the Holy Ghost. The Power & Grace are ours for the USING (Loving works!) See Philippians 4:13 & 2 Corinthians 12:9.

And surely the day of WORSHIPING THE LORD is included in His Everlasting Covenant, huh? The Birthday of Christ's creation week! :fadein: See Hebrews 13:20 & Ecclesiastes 12:13-14.

 

[Jay T]

And, it is the lack of the Bible knowledge, that satan has the advantage, over the Christian world.

[quote:b0fca]
Are you saying you don't yet have those answers? Or that you do have an opinion and don't wish to share it.

To withhold information in regards to other men's salvation would be, at the loss of mine own self, for all eternity:
Ezekiel 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

God (Christ) has identified the Lord's day, as the 7th day Sabbath:
#4.) Matthew 12:8
#5.) Mark 2:28
#6.) Luke 6:5

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, therefore the Sabbath is the Lord's day.
I guess that's not unreasonable, even though I think everybody understand's the Lord's Day to be Sunday.

And, so is the Bible verse written: "satan, which deceives the [whole] world", (Revelation 12:9).

You didn't answer this question for me.
According to you belief's does one first have to know of, and then repent of thier sin to be forgiven, or will not God forgive someone who sins unintentionally?

Since I'm not God, that is hard to answer.

We can only go with what information, the Bible provides us.

Psalms 19:7 "The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple".

This Bible verse tells me that to be truely converted, towards Jesus Christ, knowledge of what the Law says, is required study.

However, it is only the first step, towards salvation.

Step 2 is needed !
And that, is where Psalms 51:1-10 is essential study !!!

Another question, do you feel God would forgive someone who sins intentionally?

Sins can only be forgiven, when the offender asks for that forgiveness....which Christ grants, without hesitation.

Christianity is a growth process....as Jesus Christ describes in (Mark 4:26-29).

And therefore they still have sin in their lives.

It is the duty of the born-again person, to make sure there is no known sin in their lives, and that comes with Bible study only !
Eccles. 12:13 "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man".
1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin...because he is born of God".

But in your view can they be saved with unrepented sin?

Please, I'd like to reframe from the term: 'my view'.
There is no personal view, or opinions other than what the Bible says, OK ?

The Bible says, No.
"The wages of sin is death, (Romans 6:23)

Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die".

Forget denominations...(as I prefer to remain silent, on the matter)
The Bible itself, is what any Christian should concern themselves with !

Sure, but I'm just wondering if there is anybody else who shares you views.

[/quote:b0fca]
Yes, there is.

There are some....in the 7th Day Adventist church, which the Bible describes, in Revelation 12:17.....
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ".

And again in Revelation 14:12......
"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus".

 

[yesha]

To withhold information in regards to other men's salvation would be, at the loss of mine own self, for all eternity

Then I repeat…

Do you also feel that all males should be physically circumsized, as required by OT law?
Or people should pray facing Jerusalem?
What is your belief on all the purity laws?
What about wearing clothing made of two different kinds of materials?

Once I have the answers to these questions, I would like to pursue how you interpret verses that seem to oppose your viewpoints. For example, the bible tells us that the first century church met on the first day of the week. Do you believe they were in sin? Or what do you make of it?