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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Tribulation and Rapture
- Thread starter heather
- Start date
L
Lord Give me a Sign
Guest
I have a question concerning this, is the rapture before or after the tribulation period? I always thought it was before, but I've recently found out that some Christians believe its after.
IMO, all Christians will be taken in the Rapture (again - it's only MO).heatherentz said:
I did find this verse:
Rev 3:10
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Lee100 said:
Hi Lee - Funny you added this, as I was reading/researching last night I found this out. However, this brings up the questions:
Rapture would then take place throughout tribulation?
God takes the weakest Christians first and leaves the strongest to preach the Word?
Are the raptured being taken to judgement? When will they be judged?
Thanks - Marla
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,230
- 4
Hi Spiffy,Spiffy said:
This is a good verse to use, but it doesn't mean what many think it means.
There are two things to look at; first, lets look at the actual verse.
The key word here is "keep". It comes from the Greek word "tereo". Here is the definition of tereo:
Here are it's usages in the NT:
As you can see, "keep" is used 57 times in the KJV, 27 times in the NASV. In all of it's various interpretations, "remove" is never used. Therefore, there is no indication that Rev. 3:10 means remove.
Now we look at the entire passage and we read this:
Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
There are seven churches being addressed in Revelation, but only one of them is given the promise of protection (not removal). This is the church of Philadelphia. They were (are) considered the true and faithful church.
There is no promise of anyone being removed prior to any form of trial or tribulation. Jesus wasn't removed before His time of trial and tribulation; neither were the other Apostles and the countless believers that were martyred for their faith. But... we are promised this:
1 Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
That is wrath, as in the Wrath of God. We are not appointed to the Wrath of God. The unjust will be though.
Hope this helps.
I think the way it has been taught, most people don’t have a proper concept of what tribulation is. It means exactly what it says, “times of troublesâ€Â.
If the Church needs to be raptured before this, it needs to be gone already. We live in times of conflict toward God, as it has never been before. There are vices, and devices, that do nothing more than draw mans attention away from God, and you know what!; I think they are meant to.
As someone pointed out God promised to save us from his wrath, not through times of troubles. He gave us the Holy Spirit to discern between right, and wrong. So that we might be able to avoid the wrong, and seek to do what is right. The problem is so many Christians have ignored the Spirit, until they no longer know right from wrong. They no longer know troubles from wrath, and by the time they figure it all out; it will be to late.
If the Church needs to be raptured before this, it needs to be gone already. We live in times of conflict toward God, as it has never been before. There are vices, and devices, that do nothing more than draw mans attention away from God, and you know what!; I think they are meant to.
As someone pointed out God promised to save us from his wrath, not through times of troubles. He gave us the Holy Spirit to discern between right, and wrong. So that we might be able to avoid the wrong, and seek to do what is right. The problem is so many Christians have ignored the Spirit, until they no longer know right from wrong. They no longer know troubles from wrath, and by the time they figure it all out; it will be to late.
heather
Member
- Sep 13, 2007
- 922
- 0
- Thread starter
- #10
I know it's really hard to discern what scripture means when it's talking about end times.
Wouldn't it be so easy if the Bible said, " the Anti-Christ will come and his name will be __________. You will know his mark because it's ____________. It will look like this." with a nice little drawing next to it. The problem is that there are so many people out there who think they know what will happen but haven't taken the time to read God's Word or to meditate on it or pray about it. Even when someone does, it's still hard to know if you're seeing what God puts in front of you or if you're seeing what you want to see or what the devil wants you to see.
Wouldn't it be so easy if the Bible said, " the Anti-Christ will come and his name will be __________. You will know his mark because it's ____________. It will look like this." with a nice little drawing next to it. The problem is that there are so many people out there who think they know what will happen but haven't taken the time to read God's Word or to meditate on it or pray about it. Even when someone does, it's still hard to know if you're seeing what God puts in front of you or if you're seeing what you want to see or what the devil wants you to see.
Here is one example:
Ro:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Here is another:
Psalms:1:1: Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
The trouble is, there are not many transformers, oh I forgot, that's just a toy. None of us can be perfect, but some are a long way away from it. A lot of them, are those who we trust and listen to every Sunday, others are the so called Bible scholars. Who have said we need new Bibles, because the old ones are outdated!. I guess God is outdated also?.
Ro:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Here is another:
Psalms:1:1: Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
The trouble is, there are not many transformers, oh I forgot, that's just a toy. None of us can be perfect, but some are a long way away from it. A lot of them, are those who we trust and listen to every Sunday, others are the so called Bible scholars. Who have said we need new Bibles, because the old ones are outdated!. I guess God is outdated also?.
L
Lord Give me a Sign
Guest
Im sorry about that, I guess i misread your post.heatherentz said:
I got another question about this though, which is the more popular belief amongst Christians; Pre-trib or post-trib rapture?
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,230
- 4
There is a branch of End Times study called preterism. The person believing their position is called a preterist. The basic belief of the preterist is that all prophecy has been fulfilled by the time of the great diaspora of the Jews from AD 67-70. The actual period spanned 3 1/2 years and ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. Jesus spoke about this event:Spiffy said:When you read Revelations, it "appears" that the rapture is pre-tribulation. BUT...some people believe we're already in the tribulation due to their opinion of NERO being the antichrist?????
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to show him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Nero ordered the destruction of the Temple and was responsible for the death of many a Christian and Jew.
The preterist believes that Jesus did return during the revolt of the Jews in that 3 1/2 year timespan. They say He returned to pass judgment on the Jews. They say His return was a spiritual return. But that presents a problem when one reads this passage:
Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
If He physically ascended into Heaven and if we read this last verse in a literal sense, it claims He will return just as He left... a physical return.
Personally, I don't believe a literal reading of Revelation presents a pre-tribulation harpazo (rapture). I also believe the the ekklesia (church) has been in some form of tribulation since it was established by Jesus some 2,000 years ago. What I do believe it that there will be a type of tribulation greater than ever before. I just don't combine this coming persecution with the Wrath of God, nor do I confine it to a seven year period.
I don't believe Daniel 9:26-27 is referring to seven year period in our future, nor do I believe it is about some future antichrist. I believe what samuel posted here:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=26766&p=417419#p417419
Vic C.
Member
- Mar 16, 2003
- 18,230
- 4
Awe, thanks.Spiffy said:Thanks Vic!
Your teachings are awesome! I am going to study this a bit further and I will probably have tons of MORE questions!
I can only answer with what I've learned over the years and am willing to share it, whether I believe it or not. 
Of course, I will usually add a brief comment about what I believe. ;) Yes, always ask questions and check scripture for accuracy. The study of End Times is not a prerequisite to salvation but it can enhance one's understanding of Scripture. Also, always consider the historical understanding, meaning, what was the writer of any particular passage in scripture trying to convey to the reader of his time. It's good to get some Biblical history under your belt and sometimes a bit of extra Biblical writing is in order.