Bible Study Trinity Evidence All False

[Squeakybro]

TRINITY EVIDENCE FALSE
Everything that the trinitarians claims makes Jesus God. Are the same things we can do also. And it doesnt make us God. Trinitarians have tried to form a belief on circumstantial verses, not factual verses. And they base their belief on principles that are not even in the Word of God. A Believer bases all their beliefs on what is written, not on what is not written.

Matt 20:22-23
22 But Jesus answered and said, "You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?" They said to Him, "We are able."
23 So He said to them, "You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father."

Circumstantial Verses
Circumstantial verses are verses that can be used either way. As in this one,(My Lord and my God) The word and can be used to separate Lord and God, it can also be used to bring them together as one. Now as John was addressing Jesus at this point John knew and believed that God was also in Jesus. So in his attempt to address them both he was addressing "My Lord Jesus Christ, and also my God the Father that dwells in You.

John 20:28
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
(NKJ)
Factual Verses
In the factual verses, they can only be taken one way, with no variations. So the carnal mind has to pervert the factual verses in order to believe the circumstantial verses. The factual verses explain the circumstantial verses. As in this one, "One God the Father". The Father is the one God. But if you read one you see there is also one Lord Jesus Christ, which explains why John said it the way he did.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)


THE DIVINITY(DEITY) OF CHRIST
Acts 17:29-30
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
30 "Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
(NKJ)
2 Pet 1:4
4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
ONLY GOD CAN BE WORSHIPPED (WE CAN AND WILL BE WORSHIPPED)
Rev 3:9
9 "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie-- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
THREE IN ONE GOD, ONE GOD IN THREE
Everything that separates trinitarians from Christians comes from out side of the scriptures. Trintiy, deity, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.


The apostles even said. Yet for us there is one God the Father.
Christians believe there is one God the Father.
Trinitarians always start with questions, this is how they deceive.
2 Tim 2:23
23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
(NKJ)
THE 'ARE ONE' DELUSION
WE ARE ONE WITH CHRIST AND GOD AND HOLY SPIRIT
IF JESUS IS GOD BECAUSE OF THE ONENESS-THEN WE ARE GOD. NOT SO!
John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
1 Cor 12:12-14
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
1 Cor 10:16-17
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.
1 Cor 3:7-11
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Rom 12:5
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
John 17:20-23
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
John 10:29-30
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30 "I and My Father are one."
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 6:17
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Matt 10:32-33
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
1 Cor 11:1
1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Rom 16:25-27
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Phil 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
2 Cor 4:13-14
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," we also believe and therefore speak,
14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you.
(NKJ)
xxOneness is all about agreement. John 17-22 Jesus prayed that we may be one the same way that Jesus and God are one. Jesus submitted to every Word of God that shows His agreement. We are to submit to every Word of God to show our agreement.
Jesus prayed John 17-22 that we "are one" with Jesus and God the Father. And that doesnt make us God any more than it made Jesus God to be one with God.

THE I AM DELUSION
John 7:39-43
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 7:51-52
51 Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
52 They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.
John 8:1-2
1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
John 8:12
12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:16-18
16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:21
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
John 8:23-24
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28-29
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)
xxx Jesus was teaching in the temple and they were questioning Him on whether or not He was the Christ. Then they all went home and came back the next day to question Him some more. When Jesus told them: you will die in your sins if you do not believe that I am He. Then in verse 58 Jesus was telling them that even before Abraham that I am . But they picked up stones to throw at Him so they cut Jesus off in the middle of His sentance and Jesus got out of there. Jesus was claiming that" I AM He" the Christ. Jesus was not claiming He was God.
verse 24 and 28 Jesus said it, I am he. Jesus was saying He was the Christ that they were speaking of in John 7-41. But in is obvious why they didnt understand from John 7-39 they havent received the Holy Spirit yet. And even today many do not know the Spirit and get deceived in the verses.
Only People Who Worship In The Flesh Believe Jesus Is God
On Ro 9
Paul is talking about having great sorrow and grief over those who worship in the flesh.According to the flesh he could even wish he were cut off from Christ. Because those who worship in the flesh believe that Christ came and that Christ is the eternally blessed God.But as Paul says they are not all Israel who are from Israel nor are they children of Abraham seed. Those who worship in the flesh and believe this are not children of God.
Rom 9:1-8
1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,
2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart.
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;
5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
Luke 16:15
15 And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

 

[Terral]

All Trinitarians Are Not Equal

Hi Sneakybro:

Thank you for starting this thread. You might be surprised to know that all trinitarians do not hold the same interpretations of Scripture. Please allow me to present a case for the Trinity that you have not seen before.

Sneaky >> TRINITY EVIDENCE FALSE - Everything that the trinitarians claims makes Jesus God.

No sir. This trinitarian recognizes the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) as the three witnesses (1 John 5:7-8) as the ‘Son of God’ = “Christ Jesus†and the “one Mediator†(1 Timothy 2:5) between God and men. The three witnesses of “The Almighty†(Revelation 1:8) are God To Come (spirit), God Who Is (blood) and God Who Was (water) of Revelation 1:8, who The Word of God calls “His God and Father.†Revelation 1:6. The Roman Catholic version has the right pattern, but the wrong names are plugged into the equation. The three witnesses of this creation = heavens (spirit), heaven (blood) and earth (water). The diagram looks like this:

Find “Heavenly Man Christ Jesus†and follow the red arrow down to the Father (spirit), son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) standing between God to the left and this Creation (men) on the right. Most people simply assume that since the Father, Son and Holy Spirit appear together in Matthew 28:19 that those three witnesses = God, when in fact those three witnesses represent the ‘image of the Invisible God’ (Colossians 1:15). We cannot make the broad assertion that the “Trinity Evidence†is false, because we have far too many ‘three witness’ groups of spirit, water and blood throughout the Bible.

Note that the three witnesses for each of the three realms above are found listed under “God’s Infinite Realm,†the “Realm of the Word†and this “Adamic Creation.†Elijah is the spirit witness, Christ is the blood witness and Moses is the water witness at the Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-8). Your family of man (spirit), children (Offspring = seed = blood) and woman (wife = helper = water) is another three witness group described by Scripture. Even your spirit (spirit), soul (blood) and body (water) was created in this same trinity image. A more complete listing looks like this:

Did you note the ‘Second Veil’ and ‘First Veil’ at the very bottom of the chart? Find the “Tabernacle of Moses†and realize that this tent version (10x30 cubits) of the Temple also has a triune nature, which is typical of the greater tabernacle “Christ Jesus†in the Holy Place between the two veils of the first diagram above. Christ Jesus is standing in the Holy Place of this triune mystery set above, as our High Priest making Intersession from the ‘soul’ section of that living heavenly tabernacle to our INFINITE God Almighty in the Holy of Holies (God’s Infinite Realm).

There is no denying the trinity ‘patterns’ that God is showing us in Scripture from beginning to the very end, but our task is to properly define and place each witness in their proper place. Trying to replace our “one God†with the “one Mediator†(Christ Jesus) of the same verse (1Timothy 2:5) is IDOLATRY, which I believe is the underlying hypothesis of your Opening Post to this thread. However, as presented from the top, everyone calling himself a ‘trinitarian’ does not replace “The Almighty†with His Only Begotten Son (F,S,HS = Christ Jesus). Therefore, when offering criticisms of ‘trinitarians,’ perhaps you will want to make some clarifying statements in the future. ; O )

Sneaky >> Are the same things we can do also. And it doesn’t make us God. Trinitarians have tried to form a belief on circumstantial verses, not factual verses. And they base their belief on principles that are not even in the Word of God. A Believer bases all their beliefs on what is written, not on what is not written.

Many Bible Boards like Bible.org, theChristianbbs.com and others will ban you for making these kinds of statements without blinking an eye. Instead of saying that their principles are not in the Word of God, maybe we should say that they bend and break Scripture to say whatever they wish. When confronted with the facts in Debate they simply ban and ask questions later. While I am new to this Board, it appears that the Mods here moderate discussion instead of dictating the content of members like other Boards. That is most certainly a good thing, so long as we are all using God’s Living Word to present our arguments for one thing or another.

Thank you again for starting this thread,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Squeakybro]

Thanks for the reply I will look it over later. It looks like it will take me awhile to go through it, so dont give up on me yet.

 

[Terral]

God Created 'eth Shamayim AND 'eth Erets In Genesis 1:1.

Hi Sneakybro:

Thank you again for starting this trinity thread.

Sneaky >> Thanks for the reply I will look it over later. It looks like it will take me awhile to go through it, so don’t give up on me yet.

No problem. Please ask any questions and I am more than happy to give clarifying statements. The basic premise is that everything existed in a singularity expression through the perfect ages of Genesis 1:1, where God (spirit), His Word (blood) and this Adamic Creation (blood) existed as three perfectly round spheres.

Note that The “Realm of God’s Word†(Word with God = John 1:2) stands between this Adamic Creation and God’s Infinite Realm AND that this Intercessory Realm is “Heaven†(‘eth Shamayim = #853 + #8064 = Hebrew of Genesis 1:1). Our Creation is called “Earth†(‘eth Erets’ = #853 + #776) of the same opening verse of Scripture. However, the Satanic Rebellion caused the water witness (Adamic Creation = Earth) to become divided into the ‘heavens’ (spirit) and ‘earth’ (water) halves, so that ‘heaven’ (Genesis 1:8) come be ‘begotten’ by the joining of the two. God could not send His Perfect “Logos†(blood) into this broken Creation (now spirit, water and blood), because He continued to exist in His Perfect Singularity Expression as “The Word.†This forced God to divide His Word into the same spirit witness (Father) and water witness (Holy Spirit), so that rejoining them caused His Son (blood) to become the “Only Begotten.â€Â

The Father is the ‘spirit’ of Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit is the ‘body’ (water) of Christ Jesus and the Son is the ‘soul’ (blood) of Christ Jesus (blood) as One Heavenly “Man†(1 Timothy 2:5) standing between God’s Infinite Universe (spirit) and this now broken triune Universe (water). The diagram shows that the Father + Son + Holy Spirit = “The Logos†or “The Word of God.†Figure 2 shows the three witnesses of Revelation 1:8 representing the “one God†of 1 Timothy 2:5. The Roman Catholic Church has the right ‘pattern’ for their man-made ‘trinity doctrine,’ but they have replaced the three witnesses of “The Almighty†with those of His Only Begotten Son (F,S,HS). We know that replacing our “one God†with the “one Mediator†(Christ Jesus) of the same verse (1 Timothy 2:5) is commonly called “IDOLATRY.†However, that does not mean the ‘pattern’ of their doctrine is incorrect. Any counterfeit must look like the real thing and their doctrine does indeed mimic ‘the truth’ on this topic. Another way to view these things is like this:

God is One in the beginning with His Word and our universe is “IN†Both in John 1:1. We see our current three witness arrangement of today between the two equal signs (=) with the central begotten blood witnesses summing up the other two spirit and water witnesses. This is why we see only “The Son†in 1 Corinthians 15:27, as the Father and ly Spirit are indeed summed up “IN†Him within Figure 2 and inside the Holy Place of these three realms. Creation must be subjected back to the Word from which it came and the Word Himself must go back into God from where He came; until God is “all in all†on the far side of the final equal sign to the right.

I hope this helps you to see that all ‘trinitarians’ do not see things the same way.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[MrVersatile48]

DO FORGIVE ANY DUPLICATION - I have the wrong glasses on

Very briefly, as I must soon dash, I just have time to point out that the Hebrew elohim, translated as The Lord, is a plural - yet the verbs put with it are singular

Just 1 illustration of the 3-in-1

Also, the Holy Spirit is called both the Spirit of God & the Spirit of Christ

Finally, John 1, Colossians 1 & Hebrews 1 all make it crystal clear that Jesus is the Almighty Creator in human form

Genesis 1 records the Spirit as active in creation too

Just time to post link to the Creation & Science part maybe...

http://www.christianforums.net/viewforum.php?f=19

Must eat!

God bless!

Ian

 

[Terral]

Father + Son + Holy Spirit = Three Witnesses Of God's Son

Hi MrVersatile:

MrVersatile >> Very briefly, as I must soon dash, I just have time to point out that the Hebrew elohim, translated as The Lord, is a plural - yet the verbs put with it are singular.

Yes, we agree. That is about the first thing out of the mouth of most educated trinitarians in this kind of Debate. The difference is ‘which’ three witness group you are going to plug into the equation. The common misconception is that the Father + Son + Holy Spirit = "The Almighty" of Revelation 1:8. Do you see those three witnesses in that verse? No. Scripture is showing us “Jesus Christ†(Revelation 1:1,2,5) as the “Son of God†(Revelation 2:18) and “The Almighty†(Revelation 1:8) as “His God and Father.†Revelation 1:6. The three witnesses of “The Almighty†= God To Come, God Who Is and God Who Was of Revelation 1:8. The three witnesses of Matthew 28:19 (F,S,HS) are the three witnesses of His “Only Begotten Son†from the “Realm of the Word†in my diagrams above.

God Almighty cannot function inside this puny creation, because of His INFINITE (1 Kings 8:27) nature. Imagine yourself trying to reassemble the broken parts of a single molecule of water and that is more possible than for our INFINITE God trying to fix anything in this Creation. After all, your physical body is finite and that molecule of water is also finite, but the tip of God’s pinky finger cannot fit inside this Universe. That is why He had to send His Only Begotten Son AND why He works through His Own ‘three witnesses’ of Revelation 1:8. Christ is the “IMAGE†(Colossians 1:15) of the Invisible and INFINITE God Almighty, which allows Him to be the “one Mediator†(Christ Jesus) BETWEEN God and men (1 Timothy 2:5).

MrVersatile >. Just 1 illustration of the 3-in-1 Also, the Holy Spirit is called both the Spirit of God & the Spirit of Christ

The Holy Spirit is the water witness of Christ Jesus, as the restored “The Logos†or the “Word of God.†The three witnesses of “The Almighty†include “God Who Was†as the water witness in the very same way. God Who Is (blood) is the central begotten blood witness called into existence the instant that God Himself (His witnesses) entered this realm of time and space, as His INFINITE Past (God Who Was) and INFINITE Future (God To Come) merge together and overlap into “God Who Is†in much the same process that the Father (spirit) and Holy Spirit (water) merged so that the “Son†(blood) became the “Only Begotten.†This teaching is better understood, when you realize that “God Who Is†and his two witnesses are pushing the Second Veil of the diagrams into the “Realm of the Word,†as that barrier extends around His Throne “IN†His Son. (This is an advanced teaching of "The Mystery" (Ephesians 3:3), but some will see it)

Note how the “Second Veil†divider is pushed from God’s Infinite Realm (spirit) into His Son (blood) and how God sent His Son into this Creation (water). God being “IN†Christ (2 Corinthians 5:19) forced those two veils upon one another, so that when Christ incarnates “IN you†(Colossians 1:27) through this “mystery among the Gentiles,†then those two veils appear “IN†you also. This is what qualifies each member of “Christ’s body†(1 Corinthians 12:27) to judge the world and the angels (1 Corinthians 6:2-3) in the first place.

Figure 1 shows the member of Christ’s body believing the Gospel so that God’s Son takes up residence “IN†his very soul (heaven in you). Note above that you are standing in the Outer Court (water), as the physical ‘son of God’ (Romans 8:14, 19, Galatians 3:27) on this earth. Figure 2 shows the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) standing “IN†you and the “Son in the bosom of the Father.†The Holy Spirit is the water witness allowing this “three into the one†(1 John 5:8) ‘man’ (Christ Jesus = 1 Timothy 2:5) to become “Christ in you†(Colossians 1:27). Figure 3 shows how God is “IN†Christ (2 Corinthians 5:19) reconciling men to Himself through you and through His Son in you, as you became a perfect “three into the one†witness of God on this earth (God = spirit, God's Son = blood, You = water = 3 into the 1). Those Two Veils of the diagram above are stretched tightly around the nose of God’s three witnesses “IN†Christ “IN†you, as They are active participants in the judgment of each man (world) and angel (heavens) host for the ‘ages to come’ (Ephesians 2:7). Unsaved souls bear the image of Figure #1, but the completed (mature) member of the body of Christ has Christ and God “IN†Him and resembles the diagram of Figure 3.

MrVersatile >> Finally, John 1, Colossians 1 & Hebrews 1 all make it crystal clear that Jesus is the Almighty Creator in human form

No sir. Those are your ‘interpretations’ of those passages, which hopefully you will try to argue using Scripture. John the Baptist ‘clearly’ says that Jesus Christ is the “Son of God†(John 1:34), just like Peter (Matthew 16:16) and Christ Himself before (John 10:36) and AFTER (Revelation 2:18) Calvary. Since Jesus Christ never changes (Hebrews 13:8), then we can ‘clearly’ realize that He is still most certainly the “Son of God†(Romans 1:4). Here is a little puzzle for you to solve, which ‘clearly’ shows Christ Jesus is the “one Mediator†standing between God and men. First of all let’s agree that God’s Word cannot be broken (John 10:35).

“For there is one God, and one Mediator* also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus . . .â€Â. 1 Timothy 2:5.

The Greek term “Mesities*†(#3316) does not allow the “one Mediator*†to be either the “one God†OR the “men†for whom He mediates.

-------------------

Mesites = http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/ ... -2567.html

1) one who intervenes BETWEEN two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant

2) a MEDIUM of communication, arbitrator[/qu
------------------

Paul ‘clearly’ shows Jesus Christ at the “right hand of God†(Romans 8:34) making intercession for all believers as we speak. The equation looks something like this with > meaning “greater than.â€Â

One God (The Almighty; Revelation 1:8) > One Mediator (Christ Jesus = F,S,HS) > men.

The Greek itself does not allow us to move Christ Jesus (Son of God) from the “one Mediator†position BETWEEN the ‘one God’ and ‘men’ of the same verse.

MrVersatile >> Genesis 1 records the Spirit as active in creation too. (snip link)

This does not prop up your “Jesus = The Almighty†interpretation at all. Please try again . . .

Thank you very much for writing,

In Christ Jesus the Son of God,

Terral

 

[Imagican]

So, all that Christ stated to us was 'false' except for the couple of places that 'trinitarians' use as their 'proof' of 'trinity'? When Christ states that the Father is greater.......... That His power comes from............ He is the ONLY begotten...........My Father, My Father, My Father...............And when Jesus prayed, in essence, from a 'trinitarian' point of view, He prayed to 'Himself'? And upon the cross, He was asking Himself why He had forsaken Himself? And in the garden He was asking Himself to 'let this cup pass over...............? And Christ doesn't sit at the right hand of God?

Give it up guys. 'Trinity' is a man-made theology based on pagan beliefs practiced before Christs' visit. Created to 'blind' God's children from the 'truth'. There is ONLY ONE GOD. And there is ONLY ONE MEDIATOR. And there is ONLY ONE HOLY SPIRIT. ONLY ONE is to be worshipped AS GOD. Christ is NOT the ONE. Christ IS the ONLY begotten of the Father. He is to be worshipped AS THE SON, NOT the Father. Father, Son, and Spirit being of the 'same' family does NOT make them the 'same'.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

I don't believe in the Trinity. I just don't see it in the Scriptures. Is Jesus God? Sure he is but is he equal to the Father. Let me let my Lord and my God answer that.

John 14:28 (King James Version) ...for my Father is greater than I.

John 10:29-30 (King James Version) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

Clearly the Father is greater then the Son. But notice that Jesus and His Father are One. But does Oneness mean that they are co-eternal and co-equal. No! My hand is One with the rest of my body, yet it is not equal to my heart or my brain. Jesus says with His own lips that He had a begining.

Revelation 3:14 (King James Version) And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

 

[Squeakybro]

THE 'ARE ONE' DELUSION
WE ARE ONE WITH CHRIST AND GOD AND HOLY SPIRIT
IF JESUS IS GOD BECAUSE OF THE ONENESS-THEN WE ARE GOD. NOT SO!
John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
1 Cor 12:12-14
12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free-- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.
1 Cor 10:16-17
16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
17 For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.
1 Cor 3:7-11
7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Rom 12:5
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
John 17:20-23
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
John 10:29-30
29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
30 "I and My Father are one."
Eph 4:4-6
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor 6:17
17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Matt 10:32-33
32 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
1 Cor 11:1
1 Imitate me, just as I also imitate Christ.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
1 Cor 11:3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Rom 16:25-27
25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
26 but now has been made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures has been made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith--
27 to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
1 Cor 1:10
10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
Phil 3:16
16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.
2 Cor 4:13-14
13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," we also believe and therefore speak,
14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you.
(NKJ)
xxOneness is all about agreement. John 17-22 Jesus prayed that we may be one the same way that Jesus and God are one. Jesus submitted to every Word of God that shows His agreement. We are to submit to every Word of God to show our agreement.
Jesus prayed John 17-22 that we "are one" with Jesus and God the Father. And that doesnt make us God any more than it made Jesus God to be one with God.

 

[D46]

According to the Scriptures, Jesus said...John 14:9 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

God also indicates that when a man and woman are married they become one flesh. Jesus said he and the Father are one but, I sure couldn't say he that has seen me has seen my wife!! We were not the same, but; Jesus was God incarnate and could make that statement because he was/is God.He is also the Comforter or Holy Ghost.

John 15:26 (KJV) But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 (KJV) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[Imagican]

Obviously you have misinterpreted what you have read. For Christ also states that NO ONE but Hisself hath seen the Father.

So both statements CAN'T be correct in the respect that you offer.

I think that what Christ actually is saying is that 'since you KNOW me, you know the Father'. Since you have seen what I have done, you have seen the power of He that sent Me. Something along these lines. Otherwise, when He states in John that NO ONE has seen the Father, your interpretation of this verse would make no sense whatsoever.

 

[Squeakybro]

invisible

God always has been invisible. You could be looking at Him right now. And God was in Christ and we seen the the evidence of that.

Rom 1:20
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
(NKJ)

Col 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
(NKJ)

1 Tim 1:17
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
(NKJ)

Heb 11:27
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible.
(NKJ)

 

[Squeakybr0]

Squeakybro is using carnal language

Squeakybro,

You said:
God always has been invisible.

I said:
I am glad your carnal opinions will mean nothing on judegment day. Your language is carnal, you must learn how to use spiritual language (verses).

Perhaps this revelation will help you.

CARNAL LANGUAGE vs SPIRITUAL LANGUAGE(VERSES)
1 Cor 15:1-3
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-- unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
Matt 12:34-37
34 "Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
35 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.
36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
Eph 5:6-7
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Col 3:6-7
6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience,
7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
1 Cor 14:20
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
Rom 1:18-19
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
Col 2:8
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Eph 4:14-15
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head-- Christ--
John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:5-8
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Cor 14:7-10
7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played?
8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without significance.
Gal 6:7-9
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
9 And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.
2 Cor 9:6
6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
(NKJ)
xxThe problem with using carnal language(human wisdom) is there is no absolute with the carnal language. There is an absolute with the verses(Spiritual language). The absolute with the verses is that it is from the Holy Spirit our guarantee. But with the carnal language(human wisdom) it could either be a thought from your guardian angel or from the devil. This is why we have to purge our minds of the knowledge of man to come to the knowledge of the Spirit(which is the verses). The new wine is the verses the old wine is carnal language. But we also know that humans dont like change.

Luke 5:39
39 "And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, 'The old is better.'"
(NKJ)

 

[Rick W]

I see a personal feud developing here between the two Squeaks. Or quite possibly it's been going on for a while elsewhere. In any case the contention is not to continue here as far as I'm concerned.

Squeaky:
You've posted this topic before and before and before. No more.
This thread is locked.