Bible Study Trinity vs Oneness

[JLB]

I’m hoping to have a good scriptural study.

I’m posting this video of a brother who believes in Oneness so he will explain his position.

I’m not Oneness. Oneness believes that Jesus is the only member of the Godhead.

 

[for_his_glory]

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

1. God is Spirit, John 4:24, not flesh and blood and in the OT either spoke directly to the prophets or by angels and also various objects like a burning bush or an Ass for example. Between the OT and NT God was silent towards Israel as when they returned to Israel from the Babylonian captivity they came back as merchants and not shepherds as they were disobedient to God going after other gods, Book of Malachi.

2. Jesus being the very Spirit of God before the foundation of the world as He and the Father are one was prophesied by the Prophets in the OT and spoken of by John the Baptist in the NT as John being the forerunner of Christ calling all to repent. As foretold Christ did come as the word of God made flesh (skin, bone, blood) to be that light that shines in darkness. He came as redeemer Savior through Gods grace as Christ is our faith that all can repent of their sins and have eternal life with the Father to all who will believe in Him as Lord and Savior. John 1:1-4; 1 Peter 1:13-21

3. After the sacrifice of Christ God raised Him from the grave and as He had to ascend back up to heaven the promise was that He would never leave us or forsake us as when He ascended He sent down the Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) to indwell all who will believe in Christ and His finished works on the cross. In the OT Gods Spirit fell on them for a time and purpose under heaven. Now we are indwelled with that power and authority through Gods grace that the Holy Spirit now works in us and through us teaching all things God wants us to learn. All three are Spiritual and Spiritual awaking's in us to know the will of God and walk in His statures. John 16:7-15

Ephesians 4: 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[tdidymas]

I’m hoping to have a good scriptural study.

I’m posting this video of a brother who believes in Oneness so he will explain his position.

I’m not Oneness. Oneness believes that Jesus is the only member of the Godhead.

I see some serious problem with what he claims, even though I only saw about 12 min. of it. It's not the "slam dunk" he thinks it is.

1. He gripes that Parr and MacArthur don't understand the simultaneous manifestations - ok, but then he claims that the Trinitarian view came from tritheism, so he doesn't understand the Trinitarian view.

2. Whatever happened to "let US create man in OUR image" - the plurality of God in early Genesis, long before any other manifestation?

3. Who was Jesus praying to in John 17? Why would he say "the glory I had with Thee before the world was"? Unless there are real distinctions between the Father and Son, with a real relationship, long before there was any different manifestations of God?

4. Why would he say "the Father loveth the Son" unless there was real relationship between them, as two distinct persons? Why would Genesis say that man was created in the image of God, male AND female - depicting a real relationship between them - and then saying "the two shall become one flesh" - unless there was real distinction between Father and Son that is depicted by the "one flesh" relationship between husband and wife?

5. When Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit, he said "when he comes," not "when I come to you as Spirit." There is a big difference between those two ideas.

It seems to me that oneness doctrine makes the mistake of thinking that God has only one consciousness, as opposed to multiple. God must be multidimensional if He created a multidimensional universe. Since God is omnipresent, His consciousness is all-encompassing, and it's a small step to recognizing that His consciousness is multidimensional. So if "the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" is the name, identity, and authority of the Godhead, then why cannot God be three "persons" in one being?

It just seems to me that oneness doctrine is limiting God in some way to a lesser understanding of God, and thus an erroneous interpretation of scripture. You have to somehow avoid literal interpretation of scripture to make any sense of "oneness" in light of the scriptures I mentioned.

 

[Free]

I’m hoping to have a good scriptural study.

I’m posting this video of a brother who believes in Oneness so he will explain his position.

I’m not Oneness. Oneness believes that Jesus is the only member of the Godhead.

While both MacArthur and Parr did misrepresent the Oneness position, which they should have known, they aren't entirely wrong in that Oneness is based on Modalism. I believe Oneness are simply trying to distance themselves from a known heresy. Hence why I refer to it as Coexistent or Concurrent Modalism. It's half-way between Modalism and Trinitarianism.

And, as tdidymas correctly pointed out, immediately after pointing out the misrepresentation of the Oneness position, he goes on to misrepresent the Trinitarian position. He says that Trinitarians cherry-pick verses, but then goes on to cherry-pick himself. The points he makes against Trinitarianism are largely irrelevant and are low hanging fruit--easy picking.

It's interesting that he actually states that Trinitarians believe that all three persons loved each other from eternity (15:50), but completely ignores the fact that the Trinitarian position alone accounts for John's claims that God is love (1 John 4:8, 16), which is to say that love is intrinsic to his nature. Oneness cannot believe that love is intrinsic to the nature of God, since love requires at least two persons. So, if love is intrinsic to God's nature, then it necessarily follows that there must have been at least two eternal, timeless persons.

Whether or not Oneness are brothers in Christ remains to be seen.

 

[JLB]

I see some serious problem with what he claims, even though I only saw about 12 min. of it. It's not the "slam dunk" he thinks it is.

1. He gripes that Parr and MacArthur don't understand the simultaneous manifestations - ok, but then he claims that the Trinitarian view came from tritheism, so he doesn't understand the Trinitarian view.

2. Whatever happened to "let US create man in OUR image" - the plurality of God in early Genesis, long before any other manifestation?

3. Who was Jesus praying to in John 17? Why would he say "the glory I had with Thee before the world was"? Unless there are real distinctions between the Father and Son, with a real relationship, long before there was any different manifestations of God?

4. Why would he say "the Father loveth the Son" unless there was real relationship between them, as two distinct persons? Why would Genesis say that man was created in the image of God, male AND female - depicting a real relationship between them - and then saying "the two shall become one flesh" - unless there was real distinction between Father and Son that is depicted by the "one flesh" relationship between husband and wife?

5. When Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit, he said "when he comes," not "when I come to you as Spirit." There is a big difference between those two ideas.

It seems to me that oneness doctrine makes the mistake of thinking that God has only one consciousness, as opposed to multiple. God must be multidimensional if He created a multidimensional universe. Since God is omnipresent, His consciousness is all-encompassing, and it's a small step to recognizing that His consciousness is multidimensional. So if "the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" is the name, identity, and authority of the Godhead, then why cannot God be three "persons" in one being?

It just seems to me that oneness doctrine is limiting God in some way to a lesser understanding of God, and thus an erroneous interpretation of scripture. You have to somehow avoid literal interpretation of scripture to make any sense of "oneness" in light of the scriptures I mentioned.

The major foundational flaw of Oneness is they believe there is one member of the Godhead, Jesus; who expresses Himself as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

That this one is three.


The scriptures teach us these three are one.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. 1 John 5:7


I believe the Father is God.

I believe the Son is God.

I believe the Holy Spirit is God.

I believe each individual is God; YHWH the LORD God.

I believe collectively they are God; YHWH the LORD God.


I believe you can not separate their divine essence and label them as something other than God individually, so that together collectively they are still the same divine essence.


The Son however is not God the Father; although they are one Spirit.