Bible Study True Believer

[JM]

All of the following are spoken of in the present tense, this is the present condition of each true believer:

Forgiven (Ro. 4:7; 1 Jn. 2:12) - If you are forgiven, how can you lose your salvation?

Justified (Ro. 5:1,9; Tit. 3:7) - If you are justified in the eyes of God, how can you lose your salvation?

Reconciled (Ro. 5:10) - If you are reconciled, how can you lose your salvation?

Risen with Christ (Ro. 6:3-6; Col. 3:1,2) - If you are risen with Christ, how can you lose your salvation?

A child of God forever (Ro. 8:15; Ga. 4:4-7; 1 Jn. 3:1) - If you are a child of God forever, how can you lose your salvation?

Sanctified in Christ (1 Co. 1:2) - Once sanctified, how can you lose your salvation?

New creation (2 Co. 5:17) - Once made new, how can you lose your salvation?

Accepted in the beloved (Ep. 1:6) - Once accepted in the beloved, how can you lose your salvation?

Saved (Ep. 2:8,9; 2 Ti. 1:9) - Once saved, how can you lose your salvation?

Light in the Lord (Ep. 5:8) - How can you lose your salvation?

Made fit for Heaven (Col. 1:12) - If made fit for heaven, how can you lose your salvation?

Complete in Him (Col. 2:10) - If complete in Him, how can you lose your salvation?

Citizens of Heaven (Ph. 3:20) - Once citizens of heaven, how can you lose your salvation?

Children of light (1 Th. 5:5) - Once children of the light, how can you lose your salvation?

Elect (1 Pe. 1:2) - Once God has made us one of his elect (any way you want to slice it), how can you lose your salvation?

Born again (1 Pe. 1:2,23) - How does one become unborn again, to lose salvation?

Sanctified once for all (He. 10:10) - Once your sanctified, how can you lose your salvation?

Perfected forever (He. 10:14) - Once made perfect, how can you lose your salvation?

Passed from death unto life (1 Jn. 3:14) - Tell me where we pass from death to life and then to death again, to lose salvation?

At least my position doesn't need fancy foot work to made the doctrine work. Grab you KJV and over the passages for youself. Our salvation is in Christ and Christ alone...He did it all and continues to do it all.

God bless.

 

[Khristeeanos]

There is a major difference between OSAS and the "P" in Tulip. They arrive at the same conclusions, but take a vastly different road to get there.

 

[JM]

There is a major difference between OSAS and the "P" in Tulip. They arrive at the same conclusions, but take a vastly different road to get there.

AMEN! The "P" means you are saved and perform good works because you are saved. If you don't have works, we have to question you salvation.

OSAS means you accept Christ and all will be well forever, no matter what. I use to lump them both together but never again. I did a study a few months ago and was changed by it, I'll never lump them together again.

 

[Free]

2 Peter 3:17, "You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness"

1 Tim. 4:1, "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"

If one cannot lose their salvation, why the numerous warnings about being steadfast and on guard? Why the explicit statement that "some will fall away from the faith"?

 

[JM]

Even the demons believe Free, are they saved? Is that a saving faith?

 

[Blazin Bones]

I'm going to be watching this thread because of it's title. No flamming includes suggesting another user is not a believer.

 

[JM]

I'm going to be watching this thread because of it's title. No flamming includes suggesting another user is not a believer.

That's assuming too much from the title. The OP is about the position of a believer in Christ, not what makes a person a believer.

 

[Khristeeanos]

There is a major difference between OSAS and the "P" in Tulip. They arrive at the same conclusions, but take a vastly different road to get there.

AMEN! The "P" means you are saved and perform good works because you are saved. If you don't have works, we have to question you salvation.

OSAS means you accept Christ and all will be well forever, no matter what. I use to lump them both together but never again. I did a study a few months ago and was changed by it, I'll never lump them together again.

I fully agree. While I don't hold to the Calvinistic "P," I even less hold to OSAS.

Some will quote:

1 Corinthians 3:13-15
...each ones' work will become clear; for the day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

and use this passage to say that if someone becomes a Christian for a while and then abandon their faith in favor of living a depraved life they are still going to be saved.

Surely we must realize that such a teaching is a license for immorality!

 

[Free]

Jason,

Even the demons believe Free, are they saved? Is that a saving faith?

This doesn't address the point made by my post. The Scriptures I gave clearly show that some will "fall away from the faith." I was more-or-less refuting all the "how can you lose your salvation" questions in your initial post.

It's not about whose saved and who isn't, but whether or not one can lose their salvation.

 

[JM]

Nice try Free...

I've shown that a believer who is saved is saved forever...I make no arguements for those that believe and are not saved, such as the demons.

It's not about whose saved and who isn't, but whether or not one can lose their salvation.

That's exactly the point, what is saving faith? I'm still waiting for someone to tell me at which point does one lose salvation or become unborn again. The OP gives a list of truly saved believers, Christ work has been completed for them, not those who 'fall away.'

Jason ;-)

 

[Free]

I've shown that a believer who is saved is saved forever...I make no arguements for those that believe and are not saved, such as the demons.

And I've shown that it is possible to lose one's salvation. You are adding to the texts I've given.

 

[JM]

I've shown that a believer who is saved is saved forever...I make no arguements for those that believe and are not saved, such as the demons.

And I've shown that it is possible to lose one's salvation. You are adding to the texts I've given.

And I've shown that it is possible to be saved forever by the power of God. You are subtracting from the text I've given.

[See how silly that sounds?]

Anyways, lets move on Free.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Jason, I know that I could be taking the title to serious, I also know, and you and free are proving what I suspected, that the way you entered the discussion can bring tension. The last post was just a polite warning to becareful what you say.

As for OSAS, I still have yet to be convinced for either side, because both have strong arguements. That is why I said in the Last thread about this topic that we should live to please God whether or not we are OSAS.

 

[JM]

As I said before, it's time to move on.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Without what Bias?

I have no preference in this aguement because whether I have eternal salvation or not, my call is to serve with all my heart.

 

[JM]

Without what Bias?

I have no preference in this aguement because whether I have eternal salvation or not, my call is to serve with all my heart.

I thought your preference was against OSAS from the following: As for OSAS, I still have yet to be convinced for either side, because both have strong arguements. That is why I said in the Last thread about this topic that we should live to please God whether or not we are OSAS.

It doesn't matter Brutus (is that your real name?), we've been buttin' heads over this one and it won't be settle anytime soon.

jason
PS: I don't believe OSAS, I believe in the "P" of the the TULIP. :D

 

[Adams son]

All of the following are spoken of in the present tense, this is the present condition of each true believer:

Forgiven (Ro. 4:7; 1 Jn. 2:12) - If you are forgiven, how can you lose your salvation?

First of all the question is not whether one can "lose" or "keep" one's salvation. Salvation is not a possession but an event. We do not lose or keep events. The REAL question for Christians is whether or not they will be saved when Jesus comes again.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

As you can see, you are not saved yet in this sense.

Secondly, in regards to forgiveness of sins:

For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. (2 Peter 1:9).

Do you really believe you are already forgiven for the sins you will commit next year? Why then will you repent at that time and ask God to forgive you for those sins?

Justified (Ro. 5:1,9; Tit. 3:7) - If you are justified in the eyes of God, how can you lose your salvation?

Someone is going to be justified on judgment day - Matthew 12:36-37. Who is it?

Reconciled (Ro. 5:10) - If you are reconciled, how can you lose your salvation?

Why is Paul exhorting Christians to be reconciled to God then?

To the church of God which is at Corinth with all the saints who are throughout Achaia..... Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (2 Corinthians 1:1; 5:18-20).

Risen with Christ (Ro. 6:3-6; Col. 3:1,2) - If you are risen with Christ, how can you lose your salvation?

Are you really up there in heaven with Christ or is Paul speaking in a positional sense about the obedient in Christ?

Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. (Luke 20; see Romans 8:18-23).

A child of God forever (Ro. 8:15; Ga. 4:4-7; 1 Jn. 3:1) - If you are a child of God forever, how can you lose your salvation?

Nothing here says you are a child of God forever and ever.

Sanctified in Christ (1 Co. 1:2) - Once sanctified, how can you lose your salvation?

To be sanctified is to be holy. Now explain why Peter is exhorting born again Christians to be holy with judgment day and judgment by works in view:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead... As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY." If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth. (1 Peter 1:15-17).

New creation (2 Co. 5:17) - Once made new, how can you lose your salvation?

This "new creation" is the new man, new humanity. Now ask yourself why Paul exhorts CHRISTIANS to put on the new man.

Accepted in the beloved (Ep. 1:6) - Once accepted in the beloved, how can you lose your salvation?

Depends on your relationship to Jesus the Beloved doesn't it?

Saved (Ep. 2:8,9; 2 Ti. 1:9) - Once saved, how can you lose your salvation?

You are NOT yet saved in this salvation event:

"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. (Matt 24:13).

"Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed." (Romans 13:11).

Maybe you need to start asking yourself what you were saved from in the Eph 2:8 event and what you will be saved from when Jesus comes again.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Hey Jason, first off, My real name is Timothy. However, while I'm online I just perfer to Go by Brutus.

As for TULIP, we both know your A five pointer, and I'm not. However, I'm not of an Ameanian's perspective either.

Such discussions on these topics are great for discovering more about our father, I just try to keep them on a civil level.