Turkish Airlines bans stewardesses' red lipstick

[farouk]

There are more Turkish immigrants in the western parts because West German invited them into the country to help do all the work that they had when the economy was on a high during the post WWII rebuilding of the country. East Germany had a few foreign workers from other countries, but not from Turkey. So there are still more people of Turkish origin in the western parts than here, but those east-west differences will diminish in time.

Claudya:

I'm sure you're right. When I was in Berlin, in the eastern part, even, there seemed to have been many Turks moved into some neightborhood, anyway, since Unification.

And I'm sure piercing/tattoo parlors have sprung up a lot in the former East, too.

 

[farouk]

That seems strange...

Edward:

For North America, at least, it would in very general terms seem rather strange for a woman in employment and meeting the public to be denied her red lipstick, anyway.

(...or for that matter, the teenaged girls, moms & little old ladies in church, etc.)

 

[handy]

That seems strange for the Turks to me. After all, they're the ones who invented the zipper on pants, to facilitate easy rape on raids. (More useless trivia, lol)

I thought the zipper was invented by a Swedish immigrant. At least, I had a Swedish teacher once who always claimed that...

 

[farouk]

I thought the zipper was invented by a Swedish immigrant. At least, I had a Swedish teacher once who always claimed that...

handy: Anyway I don't know about Turkish Airlines. But if, say, any church in North America tried banning it (!?), it would be ... unusual, right?

Blessings.

 

[handy]

There are still a number of churches that ban any wearing of make up. Some also that, while they would be OK with very muted make up would claim that red lipstick is of the debble... Not that these churches would have a huge membership, but they still exist.

My problem with churches like this is that they are too focused on the outward appearance.

 

[farouk]

There are still a number of churches that ban any wearing of make up. Some also that, while they would be OK with very muted make up would claim that red lipstick is of the debble... Not that these churches would have a huge membership, but they still exist.

My problem with churches like this is that they are too focused on the outward appearance.

handy:

Oh, well, maybe some women who go to those places redden theirs again by applying it after the service is over... (A tattoo, on the other hand, can usually be covered... )

I agree; it does say: 'Man looketh upon the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh upon the heart'.

Blessings.

 

[Claudya]

That seems strange for the Turks to me. After all, they're the ones who invented the zipper on pants, to facilitate easy rape on raids. (More useless trivia, lol)

Even if that was true, what would that have to do with an airline's dress code for its flight attendants' lipstick?

I thought the zipper was invented by a Swedish immigrant. At least, I had a Swedish teacher once who always claimed that...

If anyone cares here is a website with the history of the zipper invention.
There is mention of a swedish immigrant. No mention of turkish raiders and rapists though.

 

[Claudya]

For North America, at least, it would in very general terms seem rather strange for a woman in employment and meeting the public to be denied her red lipstick, anyway.

I would guess that depends very much on what job you do. In some kinds of jobs women may have to refrain from wearing make-up alltogether.

 

[farouk]

For North America, at least, it would in very general terms seem rather strange for a woman in employment and meeting the public to be denied her red lipstick, anyway.

I would guess that depends very much on what job you do. In some kinds of jobs women may have to refrain from wearing make-up alltogether.

Claudya:

Kind of odd, though, in a job where much of the time is spent with the public,...

 

[Mike S]

For North America, at least, it would in very general terms seem rather strange for a woman in employment and meeting the public to be denied her red lipstick, anyway.

I would guess that depends very much on what job you do. In some kinds of jobs women may have to refrain from wearing make-up alltogether.

Claudya:

Kind of odd, though, in a job where much of the time is spent with the public,...

My wife is a flight attendant, and there ARE airline rules about physical appearance, including required makeup. She's required to wear lipstick, but not any specific color. In fact, since she doesn't really like makeup, and she's plenty attractive without it, she uses a shade of lipstick that is practically just a natural skin color.

 

[farouk]

For North America, at least, it would in very general terms seem rather strange for a woman in employment and meeting the public to be denied her red lipstick, anyway.

I would guess that depends very much on what job you do. In some kinds of jobs women may have to refrain from wearing make-up alltogether.

Claudya:

Kind of odd, though, in a job where much of the time is spent with the public,...

My wife is a flight attendant, and there ARE airline rules about physical appearance, including required makeup. She's required to wear lipstick, but not any specific color. In fact, since she doesn't really like makeup, and she's plenty attractive without it, she uses a shade of lipstick that is practically just a natural skin color.

mark:

Interesting! Anyway, it doesn't surprise me that your wife reports she is obligated to wear lipstick. I guess the compulsion is almost in the other direction from that of Turkish Airlines: banned from not wearing lipstick! (I guess the color aspect is kind of separate.) Just goes to show, I suppose, how things can differ from one country to another. And I thought it was a bit interesting to recall the historical connection with woman suffrage, a century ago. (Kind of almost evokes an idea come full circle: almost compulsory voting for women, compulsory lipstick!)

I'm sure your wife is a lovely lady; mine is, too.

Blessings.

 

[farouk]

.. Some also that, while they would be OK with very muted make up would claim that red lipstick is of the debble... .

@handy :

PS: A bit arbitrary to pick and choose which color to 'ban', though.....

 

[handy]

.. Some also that, while they would be OK with very muted make up would claim that red lipstick is of the debble... .

@handy :

PS: A bit arbitrary to pick and choose which color to 'ban', though.....

Oh, very arbitrary. That's the problem when focusing on the wrong things...by nature it's arbitrary. Red lipstick is of the devil, but being a glutton and weighing in at 300lbs.... (cue cricket sound fx)

 

[handy]

I thought the zipper was invented by a Swedish immigrant. At least, I had a Swedish teacher once who always claimed that...

If anyone cares here is a website with the history of the zipper invention.
There is mention of a swedish immigrant. No mention of turkish raiders and rapists though.

Looks like Mr. Olson was correct. He usually was about all things Swedish...lol...

I wonder what his thoughts would have been about lipstick on Airline attendants?

 

[farouk]

I wonder what his thoughts would have been about lipstick on Airline attendants?

handy:

Given the history of the rise in widespread use of red lipstick in relation to Woman Suffrage a century or so ago (see earlier posts), maybe he would have empathized somewhat when North American women, airline attendants, etc. want to wear their red lipstick with confidence?

Blessings.

 

[Claudya]

Flight attendant didn't really have a very "feminist" job for many decades anyway. They were supposed to be female, young, pretty, thin and unmarried, because those traits would appeal to travelling businessmen. So for the hard work they do up there they were considered but sex objects and eye candy in return and fired when they got married or reached age 35.
I wonder if the suffragette women of those days would even want to get a job like that.

 

[farouk]

Flight attendant didn't really have a very "feminist" job for many decades anyway. They were supposed to be female, young, pretty, thin and unmarried, because those traits would appeal to travelling businessmen. So for the hard work they do up there they were considered but sex objects and eye candy in return and fired when they got married or reached age 35.
I wonder if the suffragette women of those days would even want to get a job like that.

Claudya:

Well, to some extent there may once have been some truth to what you say, but actually one key rôle to their job was always about passenger safety (an element often overlooked beyond their lipstick smiles...)

 

[Claudya]

I'm not meaning to disrespect their job in any way. But I guess many guys only saw pretty flying waitresses in them and continue to do so until now. Friend of mine (male) returned from a vacation and disappointedly told me that on his flight back home 2 of the three attendants were guys. So if not being able to look at pretty girls during the flight causes disappointment in him it shows that flight attendants still seem to be tied to certain expectations.
The sexist discrimination related to female flight attendants may have been reduced greatly since the 60s and 70s though. Lipstick may be a sign of women's confidence, but it may also be a sign for discrimination against women, because it puts an emphasis of a sexual cue (red lips) and can under some circumstances reduce a woman to being an object of male fantasy.
Confidence and pride aren't tied to wearing lipstick.
Some women completely dislike make up for feminist reason. We are beautifull the way God made us, so why would we spend money and time on painting ourselves? Are we really to blindly follow some beauty ideal imposed on us by the (male dominated) media?
Well personally I'm not opposed to make-up, but I'm opposed to the idea that make up is somehow relevant for our confidence or our pride.
So what I'm trying to say is that red lipstick = woman's confidence is not true today. Neither is the opposite true. Confidence should never be based on outside appearance.

 

[farouk]

I'm not meaning to disrespect their job in any way. But I guess many guys only saw pretty flying waitresses in them and continue to do so until now. Friend of mine (male) returned from a vacation and disappointedly told me that on his flight back home 2 of the three attendants were guys. So if not being able to look at pretty girls during the flight causes disappointment in him it shows that flight attendants still seem to be tied to certain expectations.
The sexist discrimination related to female flight attendants may have been reduced greatly since the 60s and 70s though. Lipstick may be a sign of women's confidence, but it may also be a sign for discrimination against women, because it puts an emphasis of a sexual cue (red lips) and can under some circumstances reduce a woman to being an object of male fantasy.
Confidence and pride aren't tied to wearing lipstick.
Some women completely dislike make up for feminist reason. We are beautifull the way God made us, so why would we spend money and time on painting ourselves? Are we really to blindly follow some beauty ideal imposed on us by the (male dominated) media?
Well personally I'm not opposed to make-up, but I'm opposed to the idea that make up is somehow relevant for our confidence or our pride.
So what I'm trying to say is that red lipstick = woman's confidence is not true today. Neither is the opposite true. Confidence should never be based on outside appearance.

Claudya:

There might be some truth to this in some cases. I do find it very hard to believe that every little old lady in North American churches who applies the color to her lips is doing it to chase men. The same comment for women in business.

Far be it from me to claim too much insight. But I guess that in very general terms it's a customary thing done in order to appear appropriately smart and presentable, and - yes, the c-word - confident, too.

I can't speak for Turks, though.

 

[farouk]

I know some lipstick trivia, but I'll keep it out of this thread.

Edward: I guess we shall have to be the poorer, then...