Twisted Doctrine?

[jack1953]

This question and request for input is directed strictly to born again Christians. There is a pastor I know who, outside of a couple of 'suspect' beliefs, holds pretty much to God's Word in his messages. This pastor believes there are 2 creation stories. Adam and Eve and a scenario where God creates an unknown number of humans in the same way He created Adam and Eve. The scripture he uses is Genesis 1:26,27 which reads from the NKJV:

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the earth and over the fish of the sea, over the all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

He basis his belief on the scripture I have highlighted. He concludes that the word 'them' makes it plural so He had to have created more than Adam and Eve.

Now how I and everyone I've ever talked to or heard teach, interprets that 'them' simply means plural of 2. Adam and even being male and female, He created them.

I would like to hear from others on this doctrine.

Jack

 

[westtexas]

I'm not sure how this pastor could believe 2 different views of creation. There are some on this forum who hold a different viewpoint than I do but I personally believe in a plurality of 2- Adam and Eve.
Westtexas

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

yes them is adam and eve. The way you can know there is not two creation accounts if very very simple.

Why did Jesus die and be called the second adam?

Because He needed to redeem us from the curse of SIN and DEATH. He is the second adam because in Adam by ONE MANS SIN ALL MEN DIE so in CHRIST shall be many be made alive.

If there was a creation BEFORE adam and eve- then there was DEATH before adam and eve. But the word of God tells that there was no death until adam sinned and death through sin came into the world.

To have a seperate creation first means that every person and animal that God would have made in this " first" creation would have had to die for there to be a second creation where adam and eve were made. If that is true then death and sin did NOT come into the world by adam and his sin and all bible doctrine would crumble.

That would also mean that for these first creations to have died they have to have also sinned and brought sin into the world of which they recieved no saviour and which the creation would have already have been corrupted. All these things are not found in the bible- the pastor simply does not understand what is being said( and may possibly be trying to mix in some form of evolution or false science idea) to make it understandable to himself.

 

[justvisiting]

There is no need for two creations at all. Men in the time of Adam lived to be almost 1000 years old. They were still having children, while their children were having children...while their children were having children. That's probably why God let them live to be so old in the beginning. To procreate.
Theories aren't much use...for...or against. I just take the word for what it says.
The bottom line is... I believe in a Creator. I don't really care whether the earth is 10,000 years old or a whole lot older. The whole premise of adding tremendous time lengths is to get rid of the existence of God...in their minds. My opinion...I can only go on what it says, but if God did it differently...as in the age of the earth...I don't really care. He is still the creator.
Our very existence...and all the interactions of the universe, that allow us to survive...are not accidents. The cell and chemical reactions in the human body alone, are miraculous...now all this has to take place in a compatible Universe...yes, Universe...even the universe has to be in a proper place for everything to work out. What happens if the sun is too close to the earth. What happens if our solar system is in the wrong place in the Galaxy?
End of story. God is real...and I don't need the help of well meaning, but misguided Christians, to tell me it had to happen some other way...just to please some nonbelieving Evolutionist.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

This question and request for input is directed strictly to born again Christians. There is a pastor I know who, outside of a couple of 'suspect' beliefs, holds pretty much to God's Word in his messages. This pastor believes there are 2 creation stories. Adam and Eve and a scenario where God creates an unknown number of humans in the same way He created Adam and Eve. The scripture he uses is Genesis 1:26,27 which reads from the NKJV:

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the earth and over the fish of the sea, over the all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

He basis his belief on the scripture I have highlighted. He concludes that the word 'them' makes it plural so He had to have created more than Adam and Eve.

Now how I and everyone I've ever talked to or heard teach, interprets that 'them' simply means plural of 2. Adam and even being male and female, He created them.

I would like to hear from others on this doctrine.

Jack

Im not sure I totally agree with the pastor........

But ,,,26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

The word "man" here was taken from the hebrew word "'adam" which means ,,,men or mankind,,,So it was here on day 6 that God created makind.....

Day 7 God rested

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The word for "man" here is "eth-ha-adam" meaning a particula man,,,a certain man,,,the man Adam that would lead to the Christ.....By adding the "(Ha) and the (eth) you have article and particle identifying a certain person.....

Notice how God "CREATED" mankind but "FORMED" the man Adam...

Notice how God Gave mankind dominion over the wild animals but put the man Adam in a Garden with domestic animals...

Notice how God told the man Adam about "the tree of knowledge"(satan) and it is not mentioned in chapter 1.....

There is not 2 creation accounts because God Created mankind and formed Adam....

But it clear all men didnt come from one man Adam,,,,,just read Genesis 10.....

 

[justvisiting]

Actually, after thinking about this. Adam hasn't got anything to do with the present population anyway...Noah does. The whole world was destroyed with a flood...and only eight people survived it. From there the world became what it is.
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
BTW the world wide flood was not caused mostly from the rain... it was caused because the fountains of the deep were broken up. Apparently there is something like 5 times as much water under the ocean...as in the ocean. (Don't quote me on that) David Hockings mentions it in one of his sermons.
One person also suggests there may have been a canopy of water around the earth...protecting them from the ultra violet...and hence longer lives. (This is not clearly stated in the Bible though).
I'm sure as more discoveries are made about the earth, the world wide flood will be proven.

 

[justvisiting]

But it clear all men didnt come from one man Adam,,,,,just read Genesis 10.....
That's your opinion. I'll just stick to the Biblical one. You're taking a lot of interpretive license that isn't even there. Quoting Hebrew or Greek (which you haven't got a clue about) doesn't impress me either.
If you want to listen to a Hebrew and Greek scholar...listen to David Hocking.
He's been teaching for 50 years and he actually took all the training to know the languages.
Greek is more like French...and if you don't understand it's construction...it's easy to mess up what it means. As for Hebrew. You don't have a clue about it either. The vast majority of Theologians don't even have Hebrew as one of their languages. Furthermore to convert Hebrew directly across to Greek is practically impossible, if you don't understand both languages well. In fact it is hard, even you do.

I am a language theologian in neither. I just stick to the written word. Half your dissertations are nothing but leaning on your own understanding.
Picking a Hebrew or Greek word out of a lexicon does not a scholar make. I can quote from Strong's or Thayer's too. That doesn't mean the full context or intent of the phrase is divulged, by picking out one word.

 

[tim-from-pa]

This question and request for input is directed strictly to born again Christians. There is a pastor I know who, outside of a couple of 'suspect' beliefs, holds pretty much to God's Word in his messages. This pastor believes there are 2 creation stories. Adam and Eve and a scenario where God creates an unknown number of humans in the same way He created Adam and Eve. The scripture he uses is Genesis 1:26,27 which reads from the NKJV:

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the earth and over the fish of the sea, over the all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

He basis his belief on the scripture I have highlighted. He concludes that the word 'them' makes it plural so He had to have created more than Adam and Eve.

Now how I and everyone I've ever talked to or heard teach, interprets that 'them' simply means plural of 2. Adam and even being male and female, He created them.

I would like to hear from others on this doctrine.

Jack

I think I know the pastor you mean. I've encountered several creation story variances:

1) Adam was created the 8th day but pre-Adamic man was created the 6th.
2) Eve had intercourse with Satan (Serpent seed doctrine)
3) Angelic beings mated with human women in Genesis 6 and produced angelic-human hybrids.

Now for my comment on each one (you are primarily interested in #1 but I will comment on the others considering that you will come across them as well one day) Using both the bible and apocryphal works this is what I believe regarding each:

#1) This does not make sense, and is not supported by scripture nor apocryphal books. If I may borrow an "Armstongian" doctrine (although I am not affiliated with his group) the whole purpose of man's creation was to take the throne and authority of the earth that Satan failed at doing. Satan of course was jealous over this. So, if there are TWO lineages of man, then what's the point? I find two lineages rather pointless and needless to say, God would have inadvertently introduced conflict between the two lineages---- Conflict originates with Satan's Kingdom Vs. God's Kingdom, not something God created for His own purpose.

2) This is far more plausible, as Satan would want to ruin the lineage of mankind and defeat Messiah, but such beings from Satan would have been wiped out in the flood as only Noah was perfect (not cross-breeding) in his generations. Of course, I believe the pastor you are mentioning does not believe in a worldwide flood, and that's another subject, but I believe it was worldwide for differing reasons I am not mentioning here. In addition, it pays to understand that there is some apocryphal literature that suggests Eve was impregnated by Satan, so this is not a new idea.

3) this IMO DEFINITELY happened, and the human-angelic hybrids resulted in giants. The original ones were wiped out in the flood, but this occurred later on (as the bible says) when the children of Israel faced giants while spying out the land. The first set of giants were meant to corrupt the human race, but later on the activity seems to have been to thwart Israel. The bible strongly suggests these were angelic hybrids, and virtually ALL the apocryphal books says they were. Today we hear stories about "aliens doing reproductive experiments" or just as common people "raped by a Poltergeist". The fact that young girls are often involved leads me to believe these new paranormal phenomenon are actually powerful demons in which "they took them wives of all which they chose" as Genesis 6 said. If these "sons of God" were merely righteous humans, then giants would not have resulted. Interestingly, Jesus said that in the end days things will be "as in the days of Noah". That gives me the (paranormal) chills! Definitely keep tuned for that to happen, as it should prove interesting.

 

[A-Christian]

He basis his belief on the scripture I have highlighted. He concludes that the word 'them' makes it plural so He had to have created more than Adam and Eve.

Now how I and everyone I've ever talked to or heard teach, interprets that 'them' simply means plural of 2. Adam and even being male and female, He created them.

I would like to hear from others on this doctrine.

I'm sure that as he studied scripture, that pastor was lead to truth by the Holy Spirit. Why dispute that pastor's interpretation?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

But it clear all men didnt come from one man Adam,,,,,just read Genesis 10.....
That's your opinion. I'll just stick to the Biblical one. You're taking a lot of interpretive license that isn't even there. Quoting Hebrew or Greek (which you haven't got a clue about) doesn't impress me either.
If you want to listen to a Hebrew and Greek scholar...listen to David Hocking.
He's been teaching for 50 years and he actually took all the training to know the languages.
Greek is more like French...and if you don't understand it's construction...it's easy to mess up what it means. As for Hebrew. You don't have a clue about it either. The vast majority of Theologians don't even have Hebrew as one of their languages. Furthermore to convert Hebrew directly across to Greek is practically impossible, if you don't understand both languages well. In fact it is hard, even you do.

I am a language theologian in neither. I just stick to the written word. Half your dissertations are nothing but leaning on your own understanding.
Picking a Hebrew or Greek word out of a lexicon does not a scholar make. I can quote from Strong's or Thayer's too. That doesn't mean the full context or intent of the phrase is divulged, by picking out one word.

Greek is more like French...

What are you talking about this is Hebrew not Greek nor french


Obviously I know something about the Hebrew,,,,I know the difference in the word "man" in Genesis 1:6 and the man in Adam (eth-ha-adam)......

Quoting Hebrew or Greek (which you haven't got a clue about) doesn't impress me either.

WHo are you????? DO you actually thing one second of my day goes to impress you???? Slick tongue from miles away.... :nag

What are you talking about,,,im not converting Hebrew to Greek,,,,get on page son...

Im sure the reader will conclude I know more about Hebrew then you wheter one agrees or not....

Ok your post is a joke I dont care about your David hocking all I care about is truth,,,but if your interested so much,,,I study from many different sources Ginsberg is one you know who Ginberg is right????One of the main contributers to the Massorah,,,,You do understand theat Ginsberg only let 1 american translate his massorah right??????? And it wasnt David Hocking.....

Now if you got something worth saying,,,then say it,,,but I can care less about your tough guy attitude,,from behind a computer....

Ok as for as Hebrew,,,,the Hebrew has article and particle,,,to let the reader know if the "man" being spoken of is Plural or singular ,,,a man versus mankind.....

The man('adam) in Genesis 1:26 has no article or particle thus its rendered "men" or "mankind"

The man formed not created but formed in Genesis chp 2 has article and particle letting the reader know we are talking about a certain man,,,the (eth-ha-adam) that would lead to the Christ....

SO from this end you look like so ignorant student that cant even defend what they believes,,,I think I shoud be having this conversation with David,,,not you......

When you understand the differance in (adam),,(ha-adam) ,,(eth-ha-adam) and

1. 'Adam, denotes his origin, as being made from the "dust of the Adamah" ground (Lat. homo).
2. 'Ish, has regard to sex, a male (Lat. vir).
3. 'Enosh, has regard to his infirmities, as physically mortal, and as to character, incurable.
4. Geber, has respect to his strength, a mighty man.

Then holla at me.......

 

[NIGHTMARE]

This question and request for input is directed strictly to born again Christians. There is a pastor I know who, outside of a couple of 'suspect' beliefs, holds pretty much to God's Word in his messages. This pastor believes there are 2 creation stories. Adam and Eve and a scenario where God creates an unknown number of humans in the same way He created Adam and Eve. The scripture he uses is Genesis 1:26,27 which reads from the NKJV:

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the earth and over the fish of the sea, over the all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

He basis his belief on the scripture I have highlighted. He concludes that the word 'them' makes it plural so He had to have created more than Adam and Eve.

Now how I and everyone I've ever talked to or heard teach, interprets that 'them' simply means plural of 2. Adam and even being male and female, He created them.

I would like to hear from others on this doctrine.

Jack

I think I know the pastor you mean. I've encountered several creation story variances:

1) Adam was created the 8th day but pre-Adamic man was created the 6th.
2) Eve had intercourse with Satan (Serpent seed doctrine)
3) Angelic beings mated with human women in Genesis 6 and produced angelic-human hybrids.

Now for my comment on each one (you are primarily interested in #1 but I will comment on the others considering that you will come across them as well one day) Using both the bible and apocryphal works this is what I believe regarding each:

#1) This does not make sense, and is not supported by scripture nor apocryphal books. If I may borrow an "Armstongian" doctrine (although I am not affiliated with his group) the whole purpose of man's creation was to take the throne and authority of the earth that Satan failed at doing. Satan of course was jealous over this. So, if there are TWO lineages of man, then what's the point? I find two lineages rather pointless and needless to say, God would have inadvertently introduced conflict between the two lineages---- Conflict originates with Satan's Kingdom Vs. God's Kingdom, not something God created for His own purpose.

2) This is far more plausible, as Satan would want to ruin the lineage of mankind and defeat Messiah, but such beings from Satan would have been wiped out in the flood as only Noah was perfect (not cross-breeding) in his generations. Of course, I believe the pastor you are mentioning does not believe in a worldwide flood, and that's another subject, but I believe it was worldwide for differing reasons I am not mentioning here. In addition, it pays to understand that there is some apocryphal literature that suggests Eve was impregnated by Satan, so this is not a new idea.

3) this IMO DEFINITELY happened, and the human-angelic hybrids resulted in giants. The original ones were wiped out in the flood, but this occurred later on (as the bible says) when the children of Israel faced giants while spying out the land. The first set of giants were meant to corrupt the human race, but later on the activity seems to have been to thwart Israel. The bible strongly suggests these were angelic hybrids, and virtually ALL the apocryphal books says they were. Today we hear stories about "aliens doing reproductive experiments" or just as common people "raped by a Poltergeist". The fact that young girls are often involved leads me to believe these new paranormal phenomenon are actually powerful demons in which "they took them wives of all which they chose" as Genesis 6 said. If these "sons of God" were merely righteous humans, then giants would not have resulted. Interestingly, Jesus said that in the end days things will be "as in the days of Noah". That gives me the (paranormal) chills! Definitely keep tuned for that to happen, as it should prove interesting.

Well I disagree with some but I definatly agree with some of your post,,,,,see im one who believes that the angels mated with the daughters of Adam to stop the birth of Christ,,,,I also believe this Idea came from there leader satan as he did the very same thing to Eve.....

 

[Ret]

This question and request for input is directed strictly to born again Christians. There is a pastor I know who, outside of a couple of 'suspect' beliefs, holds pretty much to God's Word in his messages. This pastor believes there are 2 creation stories. Adam and Eve and a scenario where God creates an unknown number of humans in the same way He created Adam and Eve. The scripture he uses is Genesis 1:26,27 which reads from the NKJV:

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the earth and over the fish of the sea, over the all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Jack

Genesis 1:26, 27 is talking about being made in the IMAGE of GOD. Jesus Christ is the only man that fits this description within it's completeness. The first Adam is only symbolic of the second Adam.

• Hebrews
  1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he [Jesus Chris] had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; KJV
  
  Colossians
  1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
  15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: KJV
  17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
  18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,
  the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. KJV

Male [Jesus Christ] and female [the church] = "male and female He created them".

 

[NIGHTMARE]

This question and request for input is directed strictly to born again Christians. There is a pastor I know who, outside of a couple of 'suspect' beliefs, holds pretty much to God's Word in his messages. This pastor believes there are 2 creation stories. Adam and Eve and a scenario where God creates an unknown number of humans in the same way He created Adam and Eve. The scripture he uses is Genesis 1:26,27 which reads from the NKJV:

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the earth and over the fish of the sea, over the all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Jack

Genesis 1:26, 27 is talking about being made in the IMAGE of GOD. Jesus Christ is the only man that fits this description within it's completeness. The first Adam is only symbolic of the second Adam.

• Hebrews
  1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he [Jesus Chris] had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; KJV
  
  Colossians
  1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
  15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: KJV
  17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
  18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,
  the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. KJV

Male [Jesus Christ] and female [the church] = "male and female He created them".

I dont understand?????

Genesis 1:26 is not about Christ......For its says I Let us (Elohim) make man ('adam men, mankind) in our image.....

This is refering to all of mankind male and female all the races being made by God in the image of God,,,it will be a little later that the man Adam husband of Eve (eth-ha-adam particular man ) would be formed,,,to lead to the Christ.....

 

[Caroline H]

Just so that everyone is aware of the changes, there has been an amendment to our ToS concerning Dual Seed or Serpent Seed "doctrine" and UR....

3 - No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussing these doctrines are fine, as long as the beliefs are not actively promoted. This includes Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine which are only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.

Let's be careful how we slant things here...

 

[Croc7801]

This question and request for input is directed strictly to born again Christians. There is a pastor I know who, outside of a couple of 'suspect' beliefs, holds pretty much to God's Word in his messages. This pastor believes there are 2 creation stories. Adam and Eve and a scenario where God creates an unknown number of humans in the same way He created Adam and Eve. The scripture he uses is Genesis 1:26,27 which reads from the NKJV:

"Then God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the earth and over the fish of the sea, over the all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.' So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

He basis his belief on the scripture I have highlighted. He concludes that the word 'them' makes it plural so He had to have created more than Adam and Eve.

Now how I and everyone I've ever talked to or heard teach, interprets that 'them' simply means plural of 2. Adam and even being male and female, He created them.

I would like to hear from others on this doctrine.

Jack

Your pastor has made a serious error and should be gently corrected; chapters 2 and 3 of Genesis, clearly only speaks of 2 people getting the boot from the garden as an act of mercy on God's part. Imagine is they had discovered that tree of life and lived forever in an earthly state of sin and rebellion..praise God for getting them out of there.