Under the Law: False Advertising.....

[Georges]

Just an observation.....

No one is "Under the Law"....not even the Israelites....


You either choose to obey it...or not...

If you choose to obey it, you are not under it because it is obedience by choice...

If you choose not to obey it....then that's your problem....


God proposed the Torah....the Israelites accepted it...the Gentiles didn't and still don't.

Deu 5:27 Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear [it], and do [it].

An agreement to terms...."ie...obey and prosper" does not mean "under" as in a prison term....

 

[undertow]

If you choose not to obey it....then that's your problem....

God proposed the Torah....the Israelites accepted it...the Gentiles didn't and still don't.

If non-Jews don't follow the law then I can't see that God would see it as a "problem". Where did God say in the Old Testament that the law was for non-Jews?

 

[Georges]

According to tradition...the Torah was given in the 70 known languages at the time at Sinai....this would have been the original Pentecost (Shavout) in Exe 19. The Jews are the only one on record to accept the proposition.

It's sister passage is in Acts 2 where the apostles spoke in the 120 known languages at the 1st Pentecost (Shavout) after the Resurrection.

 

[undertow]

According to tradition...the Torah was given in the 70 known languages at the time at Sinai....this would have been the original Pentecost (Shavout) in Exe 19. The Jews are the only one on record to accept the proposition.

OK, but if they didn't accept it then presumably they are not bound by it. Jews consider gentiles to be bound only by the "Seven Noahide Laws", and not all the laws of the Torah.

 

[Georges]

According to tradition...the Torah was given in the 70 known languages at the time at Sinai....this would have been the original Pentecost (Shavout) in Exe 19. The Jews are the only one on record to accept the proposition.

OK, but if they didn't accept it then presumably they are not bound by it. Jews consider gentiles to be bound only by the "Seven Noahide Laws", and not all the laws of the Torah.

Sure, if you want to look at it that way....who in their right mind would turn down an offer as God presented?

The offer paraphrased:

God gave a splended opportunity for all at Sinai. "If you will obey my commandments, you will prosper"......Israel is the only nation to accept the offer...prophetically, they will be the ones to prosper during the Messianic Millennium....Israel will be the lead nation.

and....the Torah is the Noahide Law fine tuned.....

 

[Georges]

Read this today....remembered this thread....

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

My interpretation of this verse is.....God's commandments aren't hard to keep....

anyone else read it differently?

 

[Lewis]

Wait a minute if you except the law in your heart you are bound by it. Was not Rachab a gentile at first, and did not Jesus come from her. My mom her mom, and some aunts and cousins are people of color Hebrews. But anyway are they still bound by the school master ? My thing is if you except the law as such, then you are bound by it. My folks do not except the New Covenant, and I am sad about that but there is nothing that I can do about it.

 

[Georges]

Wait a minute if you except the law in your heart you are bound by it.

Lewis....a Christian misinterpretation of what the law is...

The Torah is a guideline to righteous living...simple as that. As John affirms, it isn't hard to keep the law...The problem is is the false thinking that you have to keep 100% of the Law 100% of the time...

God knows that man is incapable of that and provided a system of atonement...and basically, concerning sacrificial system, it's not the sacrifice but the motive and commitment that God requires...

Was not Rachab a gentile at first, and did not Jesus come from her. My mom her mom, and some aunts and cousins are people of color Hebrews. But anyway are they still bound by the school master ?

As Paul would teach it yes....but as the other Apostles (John) teach it, no.

My thing is if you except the law as such, then you are bound by it.

My thing is that it is a poor perception to call it bondage...it's a law of freedom...numerous places in the Book God constantly bless those who follow the Torah....In Hebrew, it's "instruction" as in "Guide". It is only bondage if you percieve it to be a burden...it's all in the attitude.

My folks do not except the New Covenant, and I am sad about that but there is nothing that I can do about it.

The New Covenant is easier to preach without the baggage associated with Pauline Christianity (the way it has developed)...the early Christians were Nazarene Jews made up mainly of Pharisees, and they didn't have Paul. If they can believe, your folks can too...

Lewis, it's all about the perception of what Torah is....unfortunately, both Christians and Jew's are to blame for the current split between the two.

 

[lovely]

I think it does depend on what parts of the law apply to you, and who you are in God, but most certainly that we should be obedient. I think verse 3 refers to the fact that obedience is born from our love of God...this is why his commandments are not grievous, or burdensome, to us.

1 John 5:1-5

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The Lord bless you.

 

[Lewis]

I do not see the law as bondage. But I like Paul's cunclusion on the matter.

 

[Georges]

I do not see the law as bondage. But I like Paul's cunclusion on the matter.

That's nice...I like John's...and James'...and Peter's...and Jesus'...and God's.....

Stick with Paul if you like... 8-)

 

[Georges]

I think it does depend on what parts of the law apply to you, and who you are in God, but most certainly that we should be obedient. I think verse 3 refers to the fact that obedience is born from our love of God...this is why his commandments are not grievous, or burdensome, to us.

1 John 5:1-5

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The Lord bless you.

Yet...Pauliniists would have you believe that the Law was put forth to show us "our sin"....when in reality it was given as a guide to behave in a Godly, righteous manner. The Israelites were given the Torah, the Israelites were to obey Torah as an example of how to live righteously (as a light) to the rest of the gentile world...Trouble is, the Jews because they are human, dropped the ball....Still that doesn't mean that the original intent of the purpose of the Torah is wrong....yet Paulinists would have you under that burden that it is a burden....

 

[Lewis]

Yet...Pauliniists would have you believe that the Law was put forth to show us "our sin"....when in reality it was given as a guide to behave in a Godly, righteous manner.

Same thing. Because how would people know how to act, unless God put down standards, or the Law if you will, for us to go by. And like I said them Moral Laws still stand today, for instance thou shall not lie with thy sister, or a man like it was a women, and so on. So even today we are still to be bound by these Laws, I don't care how you put it.

 

[Georges]

Yet...Paulinists would have you believe that the Law was put forth to show us "our sin"....when in reality it was given as a guide to behave in a Godly, righteous manner.

Same thing. Because how would people know how to act, unless God put down standards, or the Law if you will, for us to go by. And like I said them Moral Laws still stand today, for instance thou shall not lie with thy sister, or a man like it was a women, and so on. So even today we are still to be bound by these Laws, I don't care how you put it.

I'm not sure what we are debating about...? Are we disagreeing with anything?