Understanding HOW Lord Jesus Returns and Our Gathering

[Ezekiel]

Lets break some of this down in chapter 20. Is this a 1000 years

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

They are with Christ in heavens temple, not on earth where they reign. Time is for the cosmos, not in heaven no days and night. They will no more leave this Temple in that it make you think they were once there or came from there.

Revelation 3
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

So lets look about Satan then.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Lets break some of this down in chapter 20. Is this a 1000 years

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

No is this past tense of the 1000 years
It is clearly a case of stating for the record, in the heavenly realm, what these people endured on earth & were rewarded with.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Lets break some of this down in chapter 20. Is this a 1000 years

Revelation 3
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

This is post-1000 year reign as well.
"New Jerusalem" is built by God Himself.
Jesus will rule thousand years from the Third Temple,
A Temple built not for Him by human hands.
Though many Jews will come to Him and accept Him as Christ , His rule from this Temple, never intended for Him, built by human hands, will serve as a troubling physical memory for them of How wrong & for how long they were .


Gen 45:3
¶ I am Joseph; doth my father yet live? And his brethren could not answer him; for they were troubled at his presence.

 

[DavidT]

I never said Jesus "must" gathering the living saints.

I only quoted what the scripture says.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout,
• with the voice of an archangel,
• and with the trumpet of God.
• And the dead in Christ will rise first.
• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

So far there is no mention of destruction.


JLB

Yet some try to infer... that the saints still alive on earth (1 Thess.4:17) must be raptured to heaven before... God's consuming fire event, and I'm not talking about those on the false pre-trib rapture either.

 

[DavidT]

So I just want to understand this reality. So the dead in Christ rise, meet Christ in the heavens, then later them alive meet Christ with those with him but we don't go to the place Christ prepared for us. Then we all return to this earth for a 1000 years in that this planet will not house all these angels. Then after all we must go to the place he made for us. And after that the earth is destroyed. Then the new heavens are created.

This all starts well. Just so you know 1000 is wrong. Why would the 1000 years , then Christ leave and destroy earth. Just so you know it is wrote earth will be destroyed.

We must be careful not to ADD... men's doctrines into the Scriptures. Any idea that the saints still alive on earth are raptured to Heaven and wait out Christ's "thousand years" while in Heaven is not written.

And the "thousand years" of Rev.20 will be 'real'. It is linked with the first resurrection that is to happen on the 'last day' of this world when Jesus returns.

 

[DavidT]

Lets break some of this down in chapter 20. Is this a 1000 years

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

They are with Christ in heavens temple, not on earth where they reign. Time is for the cosmos, not in heaven no days and night. They will no more leave this Temple in that it make you think they were once there or came from there.

Revelation 3
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

So lets look about Satan then.

Sorry man, but you are missing a whole lot... of Bible truth, because the "mansions" in John 14 which Jesus promised to gather His saints to, will... be on earth, as it is the Millennial Sanctuary called God's House per the Ezekiel 40 through 47 chapters.

The Greek word for "mansions" in John 14 means 'abodes', 'chambers'. And those are defined in the Ezekiel layout of the future Sanctuary, on earth.

Revelation 20:9 also reveals where the saints are at the end of the "thousand years"...

Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV

The "beloved city" and "camp of the saints" will be ON EARTH, not up in Heaven away from the earth. Even in Zechariah 14 we are shown Christ's future return with His saints to the Mount of Olives on earth.

 

[DavidT]

So I just want to understand this reality. So the dead in Christ rise, meet Christ in the heavens, then later them alive meet Christ with those with him but we don't go to the place Christ prepared for us. Then we all return to this earth for a 1000 years in that this planet will not house all these angels. Then after all we must go to the place he made for us. And after that the earth is destroyed. Then the new heavens are created.

This all starts well. Just so you know 1000 is wrong. Why would the 1000 years , then Christ leave and destroy earth. Just so you know it is wrote earth will be destroyed.

Per 1 Thessalonians 4, Matthew 24:29-31, and Zechariah 14, and 1 Corinthians 15...

Day of The LORD Events When Jesus Comes:
* Immediately after... the "great tribulation"...
* "last trump" sounds
* the resurrection happens (both the "resurrection of life" and the "resurrection of damnation, per John 5:28-29).
* God's consuming fire burns the armies that come against Jerusalem, leaving a portion
* All alive on earth are 'changed' to spirit bodies when the "last trump" sounds
* Christ appears coming in the clouds, bringing the resurrected saints with Him
* the saints still on earth are gathered to Christ at His descent
* Christ's feet touch down upon the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, on earth, bringing all His saints there with Him
* Christ's "thousand years" reign with His elect, on earth, begin.
* the Millennial Sanctuary is built, called God's House that will have "many mansions".
* the leftovers that came against Jerusalem will be made to come worship Christ in Jerusalem, on earth, and keep the feast of tabernacles, from year to year.
* the unsaved will stand in judgment throughout the "thousand years", and be taught the difference between the clean and unclean, the profane and the holy.

 

[JLB]

Yet some try to infer... that the saints still alive on earth (1 Thess.4:17) must be raptured to heaven before... God's consuming fire event, and I'm not talking about those on the false pre-trib rapture either.

The saints that are raptured at His coming, are caught up after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

• that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.

• the dead in Christ will rise first.

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

No where does it say the saints are raptured to heaven.

They are caught together with the dead in Christ in the air, and will be with the Lord as He continues to return to Jerusalem when He destroys those who have come against that city, on the Day of the Lord.

I believe He scorches the earth by fire after His saints are gathered together unto Him high above the earth in the clouds, in the air as He continues toward Jerusalem.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-5

again


And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12






JLB

 

[DavidT]

....

No where does it say the saints are raptured to heaven.

They are caught together with the dead in Christ in the air, and will be with the Lord as He continues to return to Jerusalem when He destroys those who have come against that city, on the Day of the Lord.

I believe He scorches the earth by fire after His saints are gathered together unto Him high above the earth in the clouds, in the air as He continues toward Jerusalem.

That underlined part is what I've been talking about. That's not true either, nor is it written, it is only assumed God's consuming fire will only occur after... the gathering by Christ. You have totally missed what Daniel 3 shows about the hot fiery furnace heated 7 times hotter than necessary, and Jesus was in that fire with them, and they came out of that furnace and their clothes didn't even smell of smoke. That is symbolic of the day when God's consuming fire will burn man's works off this earth and end this present world, and also will change us to our spiritual bodies at the same time.

In reality then, "last trump" = time of God's consuming fire.

1 Cor 15:50-53
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
KJV

By that Apostle Paul was pointing to our being already 'changed' to our "spiritual body" when Jesus gathers us from the earth.

 

[Ezekiel]

Sorry man, but you are missing a whole lot... of Bible truth, because the "mansions" in John 14 which Jesus promised to gather His saints to, will... be on earth, as it is the Millennial Sanctuary called God's House per the Ezekiel 40 through 47 chapters.

The Greek word for "mansions" in John 14 means 'abodes', 'chambers'. And those are defined in the Ezekiel layout of the future Sanctuary, on earth.

Revelation 20:9 also reveals where the saints are at the end of the "thousand years"...

Rev 20:7-9
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
KJV

The "beloved city" and "camp of the saints" will be ON EARTH, not up in Heaven away from the earth. Even in Zechariah 14 we are shown Christ's future return with His saints to the Mount of Olives on earth.

Be aware I know that temple and the wheels and the prophecies related of it, and the brass man that builds it, and them that has come to pass and will come to pass in the book of Ezekiel.
By your words 1000 years, Jesus has about 7 years before earth is destroyed its not going to happen with end days earth will be pulled out to and different orbit and will never recover.


Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
3 The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the Lord hath spoken this word.
4 The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
7 The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.
8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
10 The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.
12 In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
13 When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.
14 They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the Lord, they shall cry aloud from the sea.
15 Wherefore glorify ye the Lord in the fires, even the name of the Lord God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
16 From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

 

[DavidT]

Be aware I know that temple and the wheels and the prophecies related of it, and the brass man that builds it, and them that has come to pass and will come to pass in the book of Ezekiel.
By your words 1000 years, Jesus has about 7 years before earth is destroyed its not going to happen with end days earth will be pulled out to and different orbit and will never recover.

....

Christ is who will build the Ezekiel temple of Ezekiel 40 thru 47. And it has never, ever... been built to this day. It will be Christ's Sanctuary which the Book of Daniel speaks of being cleansed when Jesus returns in our near future.

And I am well aware of the false teachings of the Pre-trib Rapture school, for they say Christ secretly raptures His Church off the earth PRIOR to the time of "great tribulation" and they go to Heaven to live out the trib, and then return with Jesus at the end of the trib. That idea is from men, and not from God, and is nowhere written in God's Word.

Furthermore, on a deeper note, which many I don't think are prepared to understand, since many brethren still just believe whatever their preacher tells them while not... checking it out for themselves in God's Word, is this:

On the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15, Apostle Paul said that those of us who are alive and remain on the day of Christ's coming, will be 'changed' "at the twinkling of an eye", but changed to what? Changed to our "spiritual body" that he was teaching about on that day, which is also the type body the 'asleep' saints that have died will be resurrected to.

So what realm does the "spiritual body" belong to? To the realm of Spirit, that other dimension where God and the angels dwell. And Isaiah 25, is where Apostle Paul got the idea of 'death swallowed up in victory' from, will also happen for the unsaved that are still alive on that day of Christ's coming too.

Thus in reality, on the "last trump", the heavenly is going to be manifested right here upon this earth! Only The Father will still remain in His Abode in a place of separation off the earth, like Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:23-28 also. Then after Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect saints, and after the GWT Judgment and "lake of fire", then The Father will return to this earth also, which is what Paul is pointing with the idea of God being all in all (1 Cor.15:28)

 

[Ezekiel]

David if I may, that s a good name, My name is David I'm the son of Jessie. You are correct Christ will build, look up He is building it now as the New Heavens are forming. But earth will make up moons and other things as the New earths are being made.

 

[JLB]

You have totally missed what Daniel 3 shows about the hot fiery furnace heated 7 times hotter than necessary, and Jesus was in that fire with them, and they came out of that furnace and their clothes didn't even smell of smoke. That is symbolic of the day when God's consuming fire will burn man's works off this earth and end this present world, and also will change us to our spiritual bodies at the same time.

Paul nor Jesus makes reference to the three Hebrew children in the fiery furnace when teaching about the coming of the Lord and the gathering of His people in the resurrection and rapture.


I try to keep it simple and use scripture with direct quotes from Jesus or Paul.


Remember it was Nebuchadnezzar that three the children into the fiery furnace, not God.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

The Lord's day being the day of the Lord is a day of Gods great wrath being poured out into the world that will have a great impact on those who refuse to repent and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. It is always pointed out as the day at hand meaning in Gods timing in Rev 1:10. The phrase "the day of the Lord" is used nineteen times in the Old Testament (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6, 9; Ezekiel 13:5, 30:3; Joel 1:15, 2:1,11,31; 3:14; Amos 5:18,20; Obadiah 15; Zephaniah 1:7,14; Zechariah 14:1; Malachi. 4:5) and five times in the New Testament (Acts 2:20; 1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:2; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 1:10). It is also alluded to in other passages like Revelation 6:17; 16:14.

The Lord's day only appears once in scripture in Rev 1:10. It gives no reference to what day of the week it was as every day is the Lord's day, but more specific is also referred to the Sabbath day beginning Friday at sunset to Saturday at sunset.

John was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, but yet in his physical body when he received from the angel Jesus sent to him who gave him all these revelations that he wrote down. Throughout scripture the Lord's day is usually referred to as the Sabbath being the seventh day of the week, Genesis 2:1-3 a day of rest.

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

In 2 Peter 3:1-10 Peter is not talking about six days of creation with the seven day as a sabbath. The full context is Peter addressing the mockers about the return of Christ, 2 Peter 3:1-7. Peter is actually quoting Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. This also parallels with Psalms 63:6 and Psalms 119:148 that speak of night watches that we read in 2 Peter 3:10 that Jesus will come as a thief in the night and that we just need to be ready as we watch for His return, Matthew 24:43; 1 Thessalonians 5:2.

Vs. 8-10 Peter gives the manifestation of the day of the Lord and if you take notice of the "is" and "as" in vs. 8 they are a figure of speech or a simile as being like a thousand years, but yet God's timing, not our timing. It's also like "a twinkling of an eye" in 1 Corinthians 15:2 as you can not define a twinkling in measurement of time. Man's literal counting of days is not always how God numbers days in hours, minutes or seconds. This is why I do not consider 1000 years as being literal in 2 Peter 3:8 or Rev 20, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Anaphora]

Good post and documentation.

Jesus will gather His election. The majority worshipped antichrist at the 6th trump. Jesus returns 7th trump.

Matthew chapter 24:31. And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His Elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The saints are God's Elect, set aside ones. They have holy spirit and discernment. They didn't worship satan as antichrist at 6th trump.

The majority will worship antichrist near future. They lack knowledge of Gods word.

Revelation chapter 13;8 . And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Either too lazy to study the bible. And hirelings teaching traditions of men and false doctrine. Teaching rapture theory, which is false doctrine.

False preachers won't teach old testament or revelation. Lie about what happened in garden of eden. The congregation is biblically illiterate.

Ephesians chapter 6. You need gospel armour on. Wisdom and knowledge of Gods word.

Isaiah 43:6 . I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back; bring My sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth.

Matthew chapter 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with abraham and isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
8:12.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness;, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Those who worshipped antichrist near future, will end up in sheol, its holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked until judgement.

Many people have spirit of stupor. They will be taught during millennium. Revelation chapter 20 to document.

The fake shepherds go into pit during the millennium with satan.