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Understanding My Mistake...

Edward

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A short while back, I made some statements in a thread (forget which one, perhaps the Walking in the Spirit thread?) where I said that sometimes the Holy Spirit leaves us, other times he is with us.

I got called on it by one or two respected members, and it has bugged me ever since. Further investigation by me now leads me to believe that I was incorrect. Scripture plainly says that He will never leave us or forsake us. I see this now and understand it. I made a mistake.

My thoughts that led me to write such a thing were that sometimes I can feel the Spirit upon me, and at other times I can not. I understand that leaning upon our own understanding is a mistake, and that relying upon feelings or emotions is no indicator whatsoever of the Spirits presence.

So my question is thus: Why am I able to at times feel the Spirit of God upon me, and not at other times? Help me to understand this please.
 
that is because often god wants it that way. we would become like some pentacostals. always looking for feelings rather then the word. a combo both is what god does.
 
Interesting, and very plausible. Thanks for your response.
 
its the word that keeps us not the feelings. often I don't feel saved, or when I do feel holy the Holy Spirit reminds me otherwise in words or in the Word.
 
I totally agree with you.
 
Hi Edward, I think of the beggar Bartimaeus in Mark chapter 10.
When he heard that Jesus was around, he cried out to him and Jesus came to him.
I think sometimes we expect Jesus to show up before we cry out to him.
 
Interesting, and very plausible. Thanks for your response.

I totally agree with Jason. People can get carried away with emotions to where the Christian walk is from one Holy Spirit "experience" to the next. It is the Word of God that renews our faith and causes it to grow. Without that faith in Christ we can do nothing it is always Him living and working through us that is real.
 
I think you're correct allenwynne, perhaps I was expecting to feel the presence of the Holy Spirit more consistently, and falling into doubt when I did not. Which brings us to Debs point, time to hit the scriptures again, keep my focus on Abba and keep up, lest I lose His hand, and get lost at the carnival. The Word does indeed bring us back into focus and show us in which direction He is.

I'm getting it. God did not change or leave me. Sometimes I turn my head and lose sight of Him for a moment.
 
Main Verse: Eph 4:30 ‘Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption’

Rom 8:9 ‘However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him’.
Eph 1:13 ‘In him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, having also believed, you were sealed in him with the Holy Spirit of promise…’

From these two passages it is clear that every born again believer in Jesus Christ has been given the Holy Spirit. In fact if someone doesn’t have the Holy Spirit he does not belong to Christ. So it's simple, the moment you believe and are saved you are given the Holy Spirit as a seal of Gods ownership upon you. This is not to say that each believer is necessarily "baptized" or "immersed" in the Holy Spirit from the start, (for instance, Peter wasn't) but that is a subject for another discussion entirely.

Eph 4:29 – 32 Grieving the Holy Spirit

To grieve: ‘to afflict with deep sorrow.’

Eph 4:29-31 ‘Let no unwholesome word proceed out of your mouth, but only such a word that is good for edification according to the need at the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice.

In its context the Holy Spirit can be grieved when we return to those things from which we have been set free.

Eph 4:32 ‘Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.’

This is how it is meant to work: Remember what God has (past tense) done for you. Taking into account all that has been freely forgiven you by God, how can we not then find forgiveness for others? If we were conscious of our own sin and the awesome grace that has been extended to us, how can we remain bitter and angry with other people? The order under grace is that you have been forgiven, so forgive others. The order under law is forgive others so that you can be forgiven. That’s why I said that it grieves the Holy Spirit when we hold onto bitterness and malice because it is a denial of that which God has done for us, and the great grace we have already received.

1Thess 5:16-21 - Quenching the Holy Spirit

To quench: ‘to extinguish or put out. ie the water quenched the fire.’

1 Thess 5:16-21 ‘Rejoice always; pray without ceasing; in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully, holding fast to that which is good.’

Regarding "prophetic utterances" -- this too is a different conversation, a different thread. Suffice it to say that I do agree with Jason and know that we have a more sure word of Prophecy, the Word of God. By this word we know that the Holy Spirit can be grieved, and quenched. We also know that He is easily entreated.
 
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What a great response Sparrowhawke. Your post and scriptures speak to me loudly this morning and convict me heavily. I am going through tribulation as we speak and am guilty of doing some of the things spoken of. I need to go pray. I need prayer right now.
 
What a great response Sparrowhawke. Your post and scriptures speak to me loudly this morning and convict me heavily. I am going through tribulation as we speak and am guilty of doing some of the things spoken of. I need to go pray. I need prayer right now.
And the trust you were born with, created for and promised. Know that He is easily entreated. Consider the Greatness of our God -- and especially those words that you love, found in 1 Corinthians 13. Consider also the words of Peter, found in 1Peter 5:16 and all of chapter 4. I am convinced (beyond doubt) that when we pray for each other in this manner we are to have the confidence that we pray according to the will of the Father and that our prayer is answered!

James 3:17 said:
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.

See also Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:36; Rom 12:9; 2Cor 7:11; Titus 3:2; Heb 12:11; James 1:5;2:13;4:8

Main Verse: James 3:17 "Easily Entreated" But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Greek: eupeithēs --> followed by, "full of mercy and good fruits" --> these are the fruits that are found in you, Edward. In you. All praise to our King, the Most High who has said that those who believe in His name, shall be saved!

Our Lord has said that even those trees that bear fruit shall be pruned. I've found that it was Trial that produced endurance, and we are told to allow (let) endurance have it's perfect work (maturing each of us), that we may be equipped for every good work. It is such a blessing for me to be allowed to participate (in prayer) with you in our service to the Holy One. I don't know how to say it except "Thanks be to God!".
 
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I think Paul, in writing to the Thessolanians, used an appropriate verb in describing what you feel, Edward.
1 Thessalonians 5NASB16 Rejoice always; 17 pray without ceasing; 18 in everything give thanks; for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. 19 Do not quench the Spirit; 20 do not despise prophetic utterances. 21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; 22 abstain from every form of evil.
The word translated "quench" is the Greek sbennumi is just as its English counterpart: To extinguish, as a flame or a fire. And the sentence "Do not quench the Spirit," is conjoined with these other admonitions: Rejoice always (for there truly is joy in the Lord, even when we don't feel joyful); pray without ceasing (for prayer keeps one in the presence of God); give thanks in everything, which is self-explanatory in the followup to that: "It is the will of God;" and then, after warning against extinguishing, or stifling to a bare flicker within us, Paul continues, do not despite prophetic utterances (the equivalent of which is the holy word of God as has been given to us by God) but carefully examine what is passed off as "the word of God" to make sure it lines up with what we know already; and lastly, to hold fast to that which is good and abstain from evil, for if we allow ourselves to act sinfully, then it becomes easier the next time to surrender to the desires of the flesh.


When we don't feel the presence of the Spirit, perhaps we should consider that He didn't leave, but we stifled Him through our own self-fish desires and won't let Him speak up against what we are doing, because we don't want to hear it. I've been there often, and it requires me to stop, seek God through prayer, reading and meditating on His word, and refocusing myself, because I've allowed that focus to shift to me and the world, not Christ.
 
the Holy Spirit is the spirit of love, regardless of our state God always loves us

1 John 4:7-21 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit(viz. of His Love, which is perfect love towards all humans). And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment(i.e. when we are always preferring/persisting for the quite direct and complete salvation to all humans in God and Jesus - even in the most critical moments): because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment(i.e. non-salvation and perdition). He that feareth is not made perfect in love(i.e. is not become perfect in the deeds of salvation). We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also."

Blessings
 
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Thanks, Brothers. That was exactly what I needed to hear right now. I did quench the Spirit last night. But today through prayer and supplication I am better. Undoubtedly, your prayers helped also. I can feel it. I was so wronged, and it was so easy to turn vengeful in Spirit. Luckily it was only within my Spirit and I took no action or brought evil to anyone. I continue to praise God for being with me and ask
His Blessings be upon all who prayed for me.

I still don't understand why I was done so wrong when I have been so good to those who wronged me. But the Spirit of the Blessed God is upon me heavily now and I suppose I am growing as we speak. I am in a better place than I was this morning or last night, and for that I praise God. :praying
 
A short while back, I made some statements in a thread (forget which one, perhaps the Walking in the Spirit thread?) where I said that sometimes the Holy Spirit leaves us, other times he is with us.

I got called on it by one or two respected members, and it has bugged me ever since. Further investigation by me now leads me to believe that I was incorrect. Scripture plainly says that He will never leave us or forsake us. I see this now and understand it. I made a mistake.

My thoughts that led me to write such a thing were that sometimes I can feel the Spirit upon me, and at other times I can not. I understand that leaning upon our own understanding is a mistake, and that relying upon feelings or emotions is no indicator whatsoever of the Spirits presence.

So my question is thus: Why am I able to at times feel the Spirit of God upon me, and not at other times? Help me to understand this please.

What you are describing can be many things. When you feel darkness come across your heart, it may be something is happening to someone you love. Sometimes it is a forboding of something coming. It can be somebody saying something or thinking something bad about you. It can be a lie we have unwittingly accepted. Oftentimes it is physical as in lack of sleep or proper nutrition, chemical or hormonal imbalance. Stop. Ask God what it is. Pray about it even if you don't know what it is. For every dark emotion there is a Light that will fill the darkness. Remember you are not helpless and can always draw close to God with thankfulness, praise and worship.
 
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This thought is so similar to what I read in the first chapter of James. We are to consider, to reckon something to be our chiefest source of joy and it doesn't make sense to even try, well, not unless we do it. Then, as we apply it to ourselves it begins to make sense and the light goes on...

Main Verse: James 1:2 "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;"

That "count it all joy" part means, "consider it this way" or "count it as such" --> and what are we to count as our chiefest source of joy? Of all things, it is falling into various trials that is to be thought of this way.
James expands on the thought and I'm certain that you've already heard of the workings behind our maturing in the Mind and Fellowship of Christ. The word of Faith is nigh thee and it's in our mouth. We just need to speak it. God will put that burden in you, this message is for every one of us. Lord knows how many times I've seen that God has put a burden on people for the whole body.

The light of the Body is the eye, the eye doesn't give off light, but through it, light enters. Mt. 6:22 In the context one of the literal greek words means lamp, the lamp contains the light. If the eye is single (single means unified) - it has to do with being simple (opposite of being double minded or confused) and sincere and honest, that a situation is regarded without a second thought --- verse 24 has to do with serving 2 masters, you can't do it. Verse 25 says, "take no thought for your life..." and being single means being simple and without a second thought. The Greek for "without a second thought" is used of a cloth that is folded over once. One fold, is simple - you fold a cloth once, being simple, not complicated or artsy, it's not folded to look pretty but instead simply to let it fit on the shelf you have, just a single fold - simple as that, God is going to meet the needs in your life, therefor have your heart simply and purely upon Him. In the concept this is what our eye is to be - Matthew ties this thought up with our treasures also - lay up treasures in heaven, verse 21, for where your treasures are there also will be your heart. Treasure has to do with that which is laid aside, and as the Greek points out, there's two different treasures: 'vertical' which has to do with a treasure that is used, and horizontal (there's these expressions in the Greek) and there is one that means it is 'horizontal' and that means it is laid away. And so here are treasure is, there our heart is and then it talks about the eye being single.

Hebrews 5:14 Let us understand that the eye is the spirit of man, and when it is given over to God and allows His light to enter, therefore it is the Spirit of God... it is the means through which the Spirit of God enters into our soul. Strong meat belongs to them that are full age. The eye is a spiritual preceptor that by reason of use, it might see both good and evil. The only way that we may see both good and evil is by the Word of God. In Psalms 119:105 it says, "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." That's the light and that's the lamp and yet it's our eye, if our eye be full of light... and the word is the light... it's saying that if your spirit be full of the word of God... you'll have light and you'll know how to walk. In Jeremiah, and I believe it's chapter 10, it says that it is not in man to direct his steps. But as we open our eye, and the light of God enters in, as we take in his Word and it is in-grafted into us, we are opening to God and He will direct our steps. This is what it means when it says "by being of a single eye".

Returning to James then, we are to count our trials, the ones that we fall into (through no fault of our own) as our chiefest source of Joy. What will you think about as your chief source of joy when you are with Him? What will we point back to as the source of our ultimate blessing? Will it be our trails themselves, seen from that perspective that caused our growth? That provided the endurance necessary for all believers to continue with him, single minded? We are to know something here: "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience..." or endurance and we are to allow something here: "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing..."

Therefore let your mind, your eye, be simple and set on God alone - and then your whole body will be sound and full of light. And in James 1:9 "Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:" -- that he is not like "the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away, but rather that He is exalted by the Father of Mercy, and celebrated by those who are given to see such things.

It is a blessing to be counted among those who are called "sons of God" and those who are able to partake of such things.
 
This thought is so similar to what I read in the first chapter of James. We are to consider, to reckon something to be our chiefest source of joy and it doesn't make sense to even try, well, not unless we do it. Then, as we apply it to ourselves it begins to make sense and the light goes on...

Main Verse: James 1:2 "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;"

That "count it all joy" part means, "consider it this way" or "count it as such" --> and what are we to count as our chiefest source of joy? Of all things, it is falling into various trials that is to be thought of this way.
James expands on the thought and I'm certain that you've already heard of the workings behind our maturing in the Mind and Fellowship of Christ. The word of Faith is nigh thee and it's in our mouth. We just need to speak it. God will put that burden in you, this message is for every one of us. Lord knows how many times I've seen that God has put a burden on people for the whole body.

The light of the Body is the eye, the eye doesn't give off light, but through it, light enters. Mt. 6:22 In the context one of the literal greek words means lamp, the lamp contains the light. If the eye is single (single means unified) - it has to do with being simple (opposite of being double minded or confused) and sincere and honest, that a situation is regarded without a second thought --- verse 24 has to do with serving 2 masters, you can't do it. Verse 25 says, "take no thought for your life..." and being single means being simple and without a second thought. The Greek for "without a second thought" is used of a cloth that is folded over once. One fold, is simple - you fold a cloth once, being simple, not complicated or artsy, it's not folded to look pretty but instead simply to let it fit on the shelf you have, just a single fold - simple as that, God is going to meet the needs in your life, therefor have your heart simply and purely upon Him. In the concept this is what our eye is to be - Matthew ties this thought up with our treasures also - lay up treasures in heaven, verse 21, for where your treasures are there also will be your heart. Treasure has to do with that which is laid aside, and as the Greek points out, there's two different treasures: 'vertical' which has to do with a treasure that is used, and horizontal (there's these expressions in the Greek) and there is one that means it is 'horizontal' and that means it is laid away. And so here are treasure is, there our heart is and then it talks about the eye being single.

Hebrews 5:14 Let us understand that the eye is the spirit of man, and when it is given over to God and allows His light to enter, therefore it is the Spirit of God... it is the means through which the Spirit of God enters into our soul. Strong meat belongs to them that are full age. The eye is a spiritual preceptor that by reason of use, it might see both good and evil. The only way that we may see both good and evil is by the Word of God. In Psalms 119:105 it says, "Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." That's the light and that's the lamp and yet it's our eye, if our eye be full of light... and the word is the light... it's saying that if your spirit be full of the word of God... you'll have light and you'll know how to walk. In Jeremiah, and I believe it's chapter 10, it says that it is not in man to direct his steps. But as we open our eye, and the light of God enters in, as we take in his Word and it is in-grafted into us, we are opening to God and He will direct our steps. This is what it means when it says "by being of a single eye".

Returning to James then, we are to count our trials, the ones that we fall into (through no fault of our own) as our chiefest source of Joy. What will you think about as your chief source of joy when you are with Him? What will we point back to as the source of our ultimate blessing? Will it be our trails themselves, seen from that perspective that caused our growth? That provided the endurance necessary for all believers to continue with him, single minded? We are to know something here: "Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience..." or endurance and we are to allow something here: "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing..."

Therefore let your mind, your eye, be simple and set on God alone - and then your whole body will be sound and full of light. And in James 1:9 "Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:" -- that he is not like "the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away, but rather that He is exalted by the Father of Mercy, and celebrated by those who are given to see such things.

It is a blessing to be counted among those who are called "sons of God" and those who are able to partake of such things.

This post lifts me up. And I didn't even know I was down.
 
I understand what you are saying Sparrowhawke, but honestly I am having a very hard time counting it as joy what happened to me. I prayed about it and meditated upon it and I can still see no joy in it. 200K years from now it will mean little but even then I doubt I would look back as see it as the source of my chiefest blessing. The nature of the tribulation doesn't lend itself to that in any way that I am able to see. :(

I will pm you and explain further. I still need prayer. I am in a bad way.
 
Thanks, Brothers. That was exactly what I needed to hear right now. I did quench the Spirit last night. But today through prayer and supplication I am better. Undoubtedly, your prayers helped also. I can feel it. I was so wronged, and it was so easy to turn vengeful in Spirit. Luckily it was only within my Spirit and I took no action or brought evil to anyone. I continue to praise God for being with me and ask
His Blessings be upon all who prayed for me.

I still don't understand why I was done so wrong when I have been so good to those who wronged me. But the Spirit of the Blessed God is upon me heavily now and I suppose I am growing as we speak. I am in a better place than I was this morning or last night, and for that I praise God. :praying
This puts you in good company Ed, Joh_1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
 
This puts you in good company Ed, Joh_1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

You have no idea how right you are reba. ;)

Please pray for me.
 
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