Unfulfilled Prayer Requests

[tessiewebb]

Many of the people Jesus healed didn't ask for it and those who did alike were "all" healed. I know there are a lot of theories out there about why some who do ask don't get healed or whatever else they ask for. One I'm sure is well-known so I'll state it here to get us started.

God's will is not that everyone should be healed.

To which I answer, then why is the Scripture that reads "by His stripes ye are healed" not qualified? Like if it said, "by His stripes ye can be healed if you have the faith of a mustard seed" as was partially written elsewhere. The God who says "Let your yea be yea and your nay be nay" because everything else is from the devil (through the mouth of Paul or one of the authors of the epistles, I can't think exactly which book that saying is found at the moment), can He let his yea be maybe?

The old "There's nothing wrong with God and there's nothing wrong with the Bible, so there must be something wrong with you" is a saw and not helpful except to throw aspersions on the one who is not healed. As if a sick or crippled one needs anymore condemnation! Although it may even be true to some extent, it is still most unkind. What if the sick one turned around and said, "No, you're the one I came to for prayer, so there must be something wrong with you, Pharisee!"

James tells us that if "anyone, notice, it is ANYONE among you is sick, let him call for the elders...after the anointing with oil, the sick one is supposed to be healed from the context of that verse.

It is written in Psalms that the death of a saint is "precious in the sight of God". And that certainly does not mean, as some say, that God loves to see His children die! What heresy that is! It means that it is "costly" in His sight. And Jesus said if we believe in Him we will NEVER die. So why do Christians die? The fewer of us on earth, the fewer will be in Heaven with us, therefore our deaths are costly to God.

Moreover, and this is my last point for this post: Jesus is at the right hand of the Father interceding for us, not to keep God from hurting us, but to demonstrate to the "powers and principalities" arrayed above our earthly level that His blood is ever efficacious. This must apply to intercession for answers to our prayers also.

Praise the Lord anyhow! I've got prayer requests that have not been answered but many that have, and even if I didn't have any, He is still praiseworthy. So, not complaining ok? Just want to see what the rest of you think on this subject.

 

[reba]

I believe God always answers. I dont believe He always says yes.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Many of the people Jesus healed didn't ask for it and those who did alike were "all" healed. I know there are a lot of theories out there about why some who do ask don't get healed or whatever else they ask for. One I'm sure is well-known so I'll state it here to get us started.

God's will is not that everyone should be healed.

To which I answer, then why is the Scripture that reads "by His stripes ye are healed" not qualified?

I´ve been teaching the scriptures for the past 19+ years and the reason this question hangs on is for te lack of study! The first rule of Hermeneutics I learned and remembered is that no single verse or group of verses can be understood with out the light of all other scripture shining on it/them. Your rather loose application of the quoted passage is a good illustration of that problem.

The very first error on your part appears to be the lack of having, consistently and properly reading/studying the whole Word of God! I am in the Final stage of Persistent Multiple Sclerosis and while the hour is not assured i will pass over before long and yet I will teach you that I am healed! All of the sins I was guilty of before I was 45 have been as far from the memory of God as the east is from the west! My sin from that date until now has been forgiven because I make sure to repent as soon as I realize I have sinned. I am healed!

Just as there is healing of many kinds at the hands of doctors it is more so with the Christ. I, in my condition, am just as busy as I can be blessing and being a blessing to as many folks as i can, I am healed! To misuse scripture in the fashion as you have here is a lost cause. If it were true nobody would need to age or to die, but they do and have ever since your quoted passage wa written.

 

[ivdavid]

I believe God always answers. I dont believe He always says yes.

I second this. I also agree to th1b.taylor's interpretation of being "healed".

See, one must also factor in the case of Paul seen in 2Cor 12, specifically v.9.

I think it ultimately boils down to
Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

If our prayers are expected to be fulfilled according to our will, that's not what is promised. If the Lord wills to fulfill a need we've been given to pray for, then it will be fulfilled. This keeps us completely dependent on God alone instead of on the strength or sincerity of our praying - as if God didn't know already what we had need of before we prayed.

Like I heard/read someone say, prayers are not meant to change God[His decisions], they're meant to change us. I personally think prayer is instituted by God to show us what's really in our hearts - and to keep us in a living relationship with Him, assuring us how He is with us all the time when actually He is beyond time itself.

 

[tessiewebb]

I believe God always answers. I dont believe He always says yes.

You are certainly entitled to your beliefs. However, the question is, reba, since Scripture says, for instance, "Whatever you ask in My Name..", or "if two or more of you agree on earth concerning anything..", why is it not answered in the same way, such as whatever we ask we get...or if two or more of us agree we get anything asked for? I'm sure you see the difference between those absolutes and the "no" that you are saying we get when He doesn't "say Yes".

 

[tessiewebb]

I´ve been teaching the scriptures for the past 19+ years and the reason this question hangs on is for te lack of study! The first rule of Hermeneutics I learned and remembered is that no single verse or group of verses can be understood with out the light of all other scripture shining on it/them. Your rather loose application of the quoted passage is a good illustration of that problem.

The very first error on your part appears to be the lack of having, consistently and properly reading/studying the whole Word of God! I am in the Final stage of Persistent Multiple Sclerosis and while the hour is not assured i will pass over before long and yet I will teach you that I am healed! All of the sins I was guilty of before I was 45 have been as far from the memory of God as the east is from the west! My sin from that date until now has been forgiven because I make sure to repent as soon as I realize I have sinned. I am healed!

Just as there is healing of many kinds at the hands of doctors it is more so with the Christ. I, in my condition, am just as busy as I can be blessing and being a blessing to as many folks as i can, I am healed! To misuse scripture in the fashion as you have here is a lost cause. If it were true nobody would need to age or to die, but they do and have ever since your quoted passage wa written.

While I don't think my use of Scripture was "loose" and really the study you have done and the teaching is short term compared to my own studies and seeking which is now going on 39 years. However, now that we have batted around the "who knows the bible best" and accusations of lack of proper application of Scripture let me say that if you still have the disease you mentioned then you are not healed as were the people Jesus healed on earth. Oh, that you were!

I regret that my tone is a bit sharp here, I'd rather not have these kind of contests of who knows more. I also regret that you have taken the tone with my post that you have. I suppose you feel that being ill along with your studies and teaching and "Hermeneutics" have given you the right to speak so rudely to one still seeking after answers for tough questions. I do not believe that to be true. In fact, I believe that you are quite angry that you have not been healed what with all your studies, and presumably, much prayer.

However, you are entitled to state your opinion for what good it has done you so far. Oh, and btw, I don't believe we must die. I pray that you will not and that you will be healed here and now.

 

[tessiewebb]

I second this. I also agree to th1b.taylor's interpretation of being "healed".

See, one must also factor in the case of Paul seen in 2Cor 12, specifically v.9.

I think it ultimately boils down to
Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

If our prayers are expected to be fulfilled according to our will, that's not what is promised. If the Lord wills to fulfill a need we've been given to pray for, then it will be fulfilled. This keeps us completely dependent on God alone instead of on the strength or sincerity of our praying - as if God didn't know already what we had need of before we prayed.

Like I heard/read someone say, prayers are not meant to change God[His decisions], they're meant to change us. I personally think prayer is instituted by God to show us what's really in our hearts - and to keep us in a living relationship with Him, assuring us how He is with us all the time when actually He is beyond time itself.

What was Jesus' reply to the man you quoted in Mt 8:2, ivdavid?

 

[reba]

Wow if God answered yes to all my requests my poor husband would have been dead years ago!

Many times i have asked for XYZ and not gotten XYZ then a bit more time passes and wow i can see XYZ was not the correct request. The ABC God blessed me with was much better in many different ways. Often better for those around me etc...

When we ask for bread He does not give us stone.... He also knows we are allergic to wheat...

Amen Taylor :yes

 

[ivdavid]

What was Jesus' reply to the man you quoted in Mt 8:2, ivdavid?

And what was God's reply to Paul in 2Cor 12:9?

And the man in Matt 8:2 did ask if it was God's will - he didn't presume it was.
The point is that our willing something to happen need not necessarily be God's will. We must ask and pray as Paul did but be humble enough to know that God knows best whether to grant us our request or not - and in His time, He will reveal the wisdom behind it too.

Scripture says, for instance, "Whatever you ask in My Name.."

Scripture is quoted in Matt 4:6, and yet it is qualified with another quote from Scripture in Matt 4:7.
Similarly, John 14:13 must be qualified with 1John 5:14.

What is your understanding on this - why do you think prayer requests go unfulfilled?

 

[Webb]

I believe "by his stripes ye are healed" refers not to physical healing but to the healing of sin.

 

[tessiewebb]

And what was God's reply to Paul in 2Cor 12:9?

And the man in Matt 8:2 did ask if it was God's will - he didn't presume it was.
The point is that our willing something to happen need not necessarily be God's will. We must ask and pray as Paul did but be humble enough to know that God knows best whether to grant us our request or not - and in His time, He will reveal the wisdom behind it too.



Scripture is quoted in Matt 4:6, and yet it is qualified with another quote from Scripture in Matt 4:7.
Similarly, John 14:13 must be qualified with 1John 5:14.

What is your understanding on this - why do you think prayer requests go unfulfilled?

Actually it looks like the man knew Jesus was able to do the healing. His wording shows that. He wasn't asking if it was Jesus' will to do it. As someone has said, we know He can, we question if He will. This brings me to another point. If we never know what God wills and He knows best for us anyway, the last of which I believe also, then why bother praying at all? Paul said somewhere to make our requests known.

Of course, God can do as He chooses about our prayers. Which brings up another question, why then did He inspire the writing of Scripture that says every thing we ask for we will receive and others that have qualifiers, for instance, if we delight ourselves in Him He will give us the desires of our hearts? I'm looking for answers to these questions. I am NOT, believe me, questioning why He should or shouldn't answer out prayers.

I don't know why prayer requests go unfulfilled,which is why I started this thread. I have my theories from day to day, most of which end in the garbage dump of forget about it when Scripture contradicts them. I tend to get hung up on the "oh, ye of little faith" statements Jesus made. I started this thread, though, hoping to see input on the issue that might shed some light on it. I appreciate every post. Each person posting is shedding a little more light.

 

[tessiewebb]

I believe "by his stripes ye are healed" refers not to physical healing but to the healing of sin.

Me too, Webb. I've always had trouble seeing how that is interpreted as physical healing. Nevertheless, there are plenty of other Scriptures which refer directly to physical healing and in most of them, the healing is instantaneous. So the question then is, why do we now see so little of these miracles? I know some say that the sort of healing the disciples did after Jesus went home were not meant for today but to me that is ludicrous. If God is the same yesterday, today and forever, it stands that His Word is also. And the very ones who say the miracles are not for today are the same ones that preach "Go and preach the gospel to every creature, baptizing them.." Weird, isn't it?

Of course I'd like to be able to disregard certain verses myself, like the one that says women are not permitted to speak (in church). No matter what explanations I hear or read about how that was only meant for a particular church, or that Paul just had a problem with women which was common in his day and all that, I'm still uncomfortable with it. Especially since I do speak in church. The God who said to "let your yea be yea and your nay nay because everything else is from the evil one" is the God of today. If He expects us to live by this surely He Himself does. So then if He said something, even if it contradicts something else He said, there has to be a harmony in what He inspired to be written. Now if only we could seek out the truth of how the contradiction is imaginary. Else we'd have to say He does contradict Himself, also a ludicrous thought, right?

 

[ivdavid]

If we never know what God wills and He knows best for us anyway, the last of which I believe also, then why bother praying at all?

I'd already written something on this in my first post... I'll re-post it here -

Like I heard/read someone say, prayers are not meant to change God[His decisions], they're meant to change us. I personally think prayer is instituted by God to show us what's really in our hearts - and to keep us in a living relationship with Him, assuring us how He is with us all the time when actually He is beyond time itself.

He wasn't asking if it was Jesus' will to do it.
As someone has said, we know He can, we question if He will.

Didn't quite get you there. Isn't "questioning if He will" the same as "asking if it's His will"?

why then did He inspire the writing of Scripture that says every thing we ask for we will receive and others that have qualifiers, for instance, if we delight ourselves in Him He will give us the desires of our hearts?

I think it's kind of linked circularly. If I truly delight in God, the desire of my heart would be to see His glory manifested unto His praise - and this He does without fail - there is never a "no" to this. I guess we wrestle with ourselves when we get to the specifics - for instance, I might think that healing me of a physical sickness today might bring glory to His Name and I'm expecting God to fulfill this - but God, in absolute wisdom, might declare that His strength and glory would be made complete in my weakness.

I do believe we have to qualify "ask anything" as "ask anything according to His will" - and Rom 12:2 says we could and should grow in our knowledge of what His will is. Perhaps that's what you'd like to discuss.

Another pointer would be to check if we are praying in the flesh or in the spirit.

 

[WIP]

I'm leaning more with th1b.Taylor. Sometimes I think we are healed but not necessarily of the ills we think we have or in the time frame we hope for. All saved will be healed of all ills one day. There will be no more sorrow or pain. Just because God doesn't jump when we ask doesn't mean he won't respond at all.

"Watever ye ask in my name..." Does faith come into play here?

 

[Sinthesis]

Should God's people take offense at not receiving a gift of physical healing?

Luk 4:23 - And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.
Luk 4:24 - And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.
Luk 4:25 - But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;
Luk 4:26 - But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, [a city] of Sidon, unto a woman [that was] a widow.
Luk 4:27 - And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.
Luk 4:28 - And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,
Luk 4:29 - And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong.​

Can Jesus be glorified only by healing physical ailments?

Jhn 11:3 - Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.
Jhn 11:4 - When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.​

Paul's poor eyesight was clearly an infirmity that he prayed to be corrected. How did he respond to this unfulfilled prayer request?

2Cr 12:5 - Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.
2Cr 12:6 - For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but [now] I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me [to be], or [that] he heareth of me.
2Cr 12:7 ¶ And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2Cr 12:8 - For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Cr 12:9 - And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2Cr 12:10 - Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.​

The Lord works in mysterious ways far beyond our comprehension. Fortunately, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us in ways that reach beyond our own personal earthly self interest.

Rom 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 - And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.
Rom 8:28 - And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.​

We are to trust that the cross we bear for our short time on earth is for the glory of God.

Luk 14:27 - And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.​

WWJD

Mat 26:38 - hen saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Mat 26:39 - And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].
Mat 26:40 - And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 - Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.
Mat 26:42 - He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Mat 26:43 - And he came and found them asleep again: for their eyes were heavy.
Mat 26:44 - And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words.​

 

[tessiewebb]

I'm leaning more with th1b.Taylor. Sometimes I think we are healed but not necessarily of the ills we think we have or in the time frame we hope for. All saved will be healed of all ills one day. There will be no more sorrow or pain. Just because God doesn't jump when we ask doesn't mean he won't respond at all.

"Watever ye ask in my name..." Does faith come into play here?

I understand your position but consider this: God is the one who inspired the Scriptures in use here. He is the one that did not include qualifications in them. So, it is not a position of demand we speak from in prayer requests but a position of "it is written". I think that adequately explains my puzzlement on why these statements cannot be taken at face value for all situations. Maybe this is one of the "deep things" of God that will be revealed if we press in. At least I'm hoping so.

In answer to your last, I do believe faith counts. However, that is our side. On God's side the statements are written without qualification in several places. As deep as I have been able to go into this issue, I have been unable to see where our faith is required for activation of the statements made and written without qualification. I'm really digging here, trying to get at what puzzles me and I appreciate the posters who have responded for staying on point with it.

 

[Bonairos]

Wow if God answered yes to all my requests my poor husband would have been dead years ago!

HAHAHAHA!

(gasping) Reba?!

HAHAHAHA!


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

 

[WIP]

I understand your position but consider this: God is the one who inspired the Scriptures in use here. He is the one that did not include qualifications in them. So, it is not a position of demand we speak from in prayer requests but a position of "it is written". I think that adequately explains my puzzlement on why these statements cannot be taken at face value for all situations. Maybe this is one of the "deep things" of God that will be revealed if we press in. At least I'm hoping so.

In answer to your last, I do believe faith counts. However, that is our side. On God's side the statements are written without qualification in several places. As deep as I have been able to go into this issue, I have been unable to see where our faith is required for activation of the statements made and written without qualification. I'm really digging here, trying to get at what puzzles me and I appreciate the posters who have responded for staying on point with it.

Do you suppose that sometimes we need to suffer in life in order to be healed in spirit? We (mankind) are an unruly bunch. Perhaps God needs to inflict tough love once in a while to shake us up and bring us back to the straight and narrow. Just thinking.

 

[tessiewebb]

Do you suppose that sometimes we need to suffer in life in order to be healed in spirit? We (mankind) are an unruly bunch. Perhaps God needs to inflict tough love once in a while to shake us up and bring us back to the straight and narrow. Just thinking.

That's as good an answer as any, I suppose, however, it still doesn't answer why the Scriptures are written without qualification. We know He does chastise his own, that is Scripture, as you know. I'm really striving to get the mind of Christ on this issue. And so far, as with yours, I"m getting carefully thought out answers, for which I'm grateful.

Yet so far none have answered fully, if you understand what I mean. No comment on your post intended. I'd like to hear from one who believes they have the mind of Christ on the matter, wouldn't you? I think any of us who have questioned this would like to know.

I've not gotten clear on it myself, that is for sure. As for "wisdom from God who upbraideth not", something like is in James. See, those kinds of statements drive me a bit wild. I've certainly asked the question I put forth here and asked for wisdom on it. So far no answer, including the several I've thought of in my times of seeking, have satisfied.

Still, I find with every post I read on this thread, more light is shed. Maybe the real answer is that it depends on the circumstances whether the verses fit the individual situation or not. I just wish the variation wouldn't shed such a poor light on the Scriptures, making them seem untrue for those who don't get answers.

 

[reba]

HAHAHAHA!

(gasping) Reba?!

HAHAHAHA!


Be blessed, Stay blessed, and be Bold!

;) ;)