Venerating Statues

[bibleberean]

What does the Bible say about venerating Statues and graven images?

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them" Deuteronomy 5:8-9,

Many apostate churches claim that there are miracles connected with their icons and idols. Weeping paintings and icons ets.

What saith the scriptures?

Psalms 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

Psalms 115:5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

Psalms 115:6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

Psalms 115:7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

Psalms 115:8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Check out the pagan practices of apostates at the following sites

http://www.sspxasia.com/Newsletters/200 ... Rosary.htm

Catholic children are lead into idolatry at an early age!

http://www.stfrancisvernon.org/Crowning5th.htm

Here is one of "Devotion of the infant Jesus"

You have to read this garbage to believe it. A very short read...

http://www.medjugorjecenter.org/prague/page2.htm

Catholics venerate statues of Jesus as a baby. Jesus is not a baby. He grew and died for our sins as a man...

John 19:5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!

It may be alright to have thoughts of Jesus as a baby. He is not to be worshipped today as a baby in His mothers arms.

Jesus did not save us from our sins. Jesus was a grown man when He died for our sins and when He was resurrected from the dead.

Jesus is not a baby sitting at the right hand of God the Father, interceding for us. When judgement day comes it will not be a baby Jesus who judges our sins.

Stay away from what the bible clearly fobids. Don't pray rosaries to a false Mary. Don't worship or venerate a false baby Jesus.

Don't venerate or worship statues of someone who is supposed to be Peter.

He did not want that kind of homage on earth and he sure as there is a hell doesn't want it now that he sleeps in Christ.

Acts 10:25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

Acts 10:26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

There is a statue of that is allegedly of Peter in a basilica that so many thousands of people have kissed the foot of it has worn down....

:smt078

 

[D46]

This is a good link and I believe to be well covered in the bible about idolatry.

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/idolatry.htm

http://www.catholicconcerns.com/
Scroll down to "Venerating Statues" and "What is Idolatry"

 

[bibleberean]

This is a good link and I believe to be well covered in the bible about idolatry.

http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/idolatry.htm

http://www.catholicconcerns.com/
Scroll down to "Venerating Statues" and "What is Idolatry"

I just looked briefly at the first link. I liked what I saw...

Thanks,

Robert

 

[D46]

Though not statues in and of themselves, this is interesting about more symbolism. A couple are about the "infant Jesus".

http://www.piney.com/His56.html

http://www.karmel.at/prag-jesu/english/firsten.htm

http://karmel.at/prag-jesu/english/eng/saticken.htm

http://idolpictures.tripod.com/idols/id7.html

 

[Soma-Sight]

Here is a graven image I found the other day...........

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Yeah, Soma, here are a couple more I found...

or this

and my personal favorite, a graven image from Satan's living room wall...

 

[bibleberean]

Leviticus 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Isaiah 46:5 To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?

Isaiah 46:6 They lavish gold out of the bag, and weigh silver in the balance, and hire a goldsmith; and he maketh it a god: they fall down, yea, they worship.

Isaiah 46:7 They bear him upon the shoulder, they carry him, and set him in his place, and he standeth; from his place shall he not remove: yea, one shall cry unto him, yet can he not answer, nor save him out of his trouble.



Psalms 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

Psalms 115:5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

Psalms 115:6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

Psalms 115:7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

Psalms 115:8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Habakkuk 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

You've used that post at least two dozen times, Robert, please get some new schtick

T shirt idolatry

Flannelgraph Sunday School Idolatry

Americolatry in a country church (hail Satan)

Baptist bannerolatry

Look here- good Baptists bowing at an 'altar call' to an altar that isn't there- not only are they idolaters, they're confused.

Protestant bible cover idolatry

Ficus plant idolatry
j/k


Jewish idolatry

I think the planks will need to be pulled out of the protestant Fundamentalist eye before they help us with our speck.

 

[bibleberean]

Bowing down and praying to idols is wrong. Reading the bible is not the same thing and kids painting pictures is not the same as praying to or through statues.

Your logic is deceptive and your practices sinful.

The truth bears repeating. :D

 

[AwedbyGod]

Bowing down and praying to idols is wrong. Reading the bible is not the same thing and kids painting pictures is not the same as praying to or through statues.

Your logic is deceptive and your practices sinful.

The truth bears repeating. :D

Perhaps if you ever find it, you can start repeating it.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Bowing down and praying to idols is wrong. Reading the bible is not the same thing and kids painting pictures is not the same as praying to or through statues.

Your logic is deceptive and your practices sinful.

Your logic is absent and your practices are prideful and empty. You avoid replying to those elements that staple you to the wall.
1. Altar call- bowing to an altar that is not there. If it was just bowing to Christ, that could be done away from the front of the Church. This is an empty ritual chiefly practiced and employed by Finney and Spurgeon, now emulated by the clueless.
2. The winged cherubim on the mercy seat- this couldn't be any clearer an example of how divine images were granted sanctity.
+
In whom we have redemption through (Christ's) blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person

Lest you forget, God put on this flesh and sanctified again the image that had fallen.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him.

This "image," Hebrew tselem, is synonymous with Greek eikon, or icon.

How was the image restored? At the heavenly mercy seat, after this

As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

Yes, He was marred in image so that our image would be restored.

I say these things not to you, but to those who would be polluted by your iconoclasm.

The truth bears repeating. :D

That point is moot: for you have spoken no truth, only the false piety of the iconoclast.

 

[bibleberean]

Bowing down and praying to idols is wrong. Reading the bible is not the same thing and kids painting pictures is not the same as praying to or through statues.

Your logic is deceptive and your practices sinful.

The truth bears repeating. :D

Perhaps if you ever find it, you can start repeating it.

Okay,

Bowing down before an idol such as a statue of the false goddess of the RCC is a sin.

The bible clearly refutes such practices.

Pope Pius XII (1876-1958)
(Pontiff 1939-1958)

The Essential Mary Handbook : a summary of beliefs, practices, and prayers : with a glossary of key terms and cross-referenced to the Catechism of the Catholic Church / [edited and compiled by Judith A. Bauer] Imprint Liguori, Mo. : Liguori Publications, c1999, BX2160.2 .E88 1999 , pp. 123-4

To Our Lady of Rest
Hear, O Blessed Virgin, the prayers which we address you, Our Lady of Rest, as we are mindful of that maternal love in which you receive your children...



...O Mary, under your patronage we find peace in the midst of earthly tribulation. You are the quiet certainty of the strong soul, ever on guard against the enemy. You are the sanctuary of the pure who remain unstained by earth’s corruption. And just as, with you, we find peace during the present life, so shall we find with you, when the days of our pilgrimage are over, everlasting peace in the world to come. Amen."


Praying on your knees before a statue of the devil goddess of the RCC for peace, sanctuary and rest is the lowest form of blasphemy.

True followers of Christ find rest in the sinless son not in the corrupt demon that the RCC has created.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

To the pit with Catholic idols!

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

True Christians wait for the Son not "big mommy in the sky"

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

 

[bibleberean]

God tells us that idol worship and sacrifice He has not commanded is an abomination to Him.

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Leviticus 19:4 Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 29:17 And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them

Deuteronomy 29:18 Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the LORD our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;

2 Kings 17:12 For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing.

2 Kings 21:11 Because Manasseh king of Judah hath done these abominations, and hath done wickedly above all that the Amorites did, which were before him, and hath made Judah also to sin with his idols:

2 Kings 23:23 But in the eighteenth year of king Josiah, wherein this passover was holden to the LORD in Jerusalem.

2 Kings 23:25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.

1 Chronicles 16:26 For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.

2 Chronicles 15:8 And when Asa heard these words, and the prophecy of Oded the prophet, he took courage, and put away the abominable idols out of all the land of Judah and Benjamin, and out of the cities which he had taken from mount Ephraim, and renewed the altar of the LORD, that was before the porch of the LORD.

Psalms 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.

Psalms 106:36 And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them.

The work of men's hands cannot see, hear or speak

Psalms 115:4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

Psalms 115:5 They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:

Psalms 115:6 They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:

Psalms 115:7 They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.

Psalms 115:8 They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Habakkuk 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?

People that make idols should be ashamed

Isaiah 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

Isaiah 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?

Isaiah 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

Ezekiel 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

Ezekiel 20:18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:

Hosea 8:4 They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.

Do not set up graven images and sin against God

Exodus 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Exodus 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Leviticus 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 4:23 Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.

Deuteronomy 4:25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger:

Deuteronomy 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

Isaiah 44:9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.

Isaiah 44:17 And the residue thereof he maketh a god, even his graven image: he falleth down unto it, and worshippeth it, and prayeth unto it, and saith, Deliver me; for thou art my god.

Isaiah 45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

Jeremiah 10:14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.


I will take God at His words and reject the idolaters of the harlot church.

Catholics bow before statues of "saints" and their goddess and ask for refuge, peace, salvation and for them to grant their petitions.

Then they have the gall to lie and tell us this what God wants.

Pig slop!

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Bowing down and praying to idols is wrong. Reading the bible is not the same thing and kids painting pictures is not the same as praying to or through statues.

Your logic is deceptive and your practices sinful.

The truth bears repeating. :D

Perhaps if you ever find it, you can start repeating it.

Okay,

Bowing down before an idol such as a statue of the false goddess of the RCC is a sin.

The bible clearly refutes such practices.

Really? The bible clealy refutes which practices, exactly? Please be specific, I don't care for circularity in debates.

True Christians wait for the Son not "big mommy in the sky"

This is what happens when you mix truth with error. The true Christian awaits the return of Christ with His holy angels and all His saints.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

This comprises yet another strawman argument. I kno of no one who worships the image in Christian circles. I know of no Christian parent who has not been moved to worship God as they stare in to the face of their newborn child. That's not idolatry, that's worship.

Iconoclastic false piety in overdrive.

 

[AwedbyGod]

My point remains. Your problem is that you too focused on fighting something that isn't real other than in your fevered imagination. Truth, logic and reason don't seem to enter into your thoughts on this subject. You make a fine Pharisee.

Bowing down and praying to idols is wrong. Reading the bible is not the same thing and kids painting pictures is not the same as praying to or through statues.

Your logic is deceptive and your practices sinful.

The truth bears repeating. :D

Perhaps if you ever find it, you can start repeating it.

Okay,

Bowing down before an idol such as a statue of the false goddess of the RCC is a sin.

The bible clearly refutes such practices.

Pope Pius XII (1876-1958)
(Pontiff 1939-1958)

The Essential Mary Handbook : a summary of beliefs, practices, and prayers : with a glossary of key terms and cross-referenced to the Catechism of the Catholic Church / [edited and compiled by Judith A. Bauer] Imprint Liguori, Mo. : Liguori Publications, c1999, BX2160.2 .E88 1999 , pp. 123-4

To Our Lady of Rest
Hear, O Blessed Virgin, the prayers which we address you, Our Lady of Rest, as we are mindful of that maternal love in which you receive your children...



...O Mary, under your patronage we find peace in the midst of earthly tribulation. You are the quiet certainty of the strong soul, ever on guard against the enemy. You are the sanctuary of the pure who remain unstained by earth’s corruption. And just as, with you, we find peace during the present life, so shall we find with you, when the days of our pilgrimage are over, everlasting peace in the world to come. Amen."


Praying on your knees before a statue of the devil goddess of the RCC for peace, sanctuary and rest is the lowest form of blasphemy.

True followers of Christ find rest in the sinless son not in the corrupt demon that the RCC has created.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

To the pit with Catholic idols!

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

True Christians wait for the Son not "big mommy in the sky"

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

 

[bibleberean]

Kneeling down before statues of the false Mary and calling her the "conqueress of sin and death" in her pagan "shrines, groves and altars" is very real.

Bend Tenderly Over Our Wounds

Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, he crowned you Queen of the Universe.

O crystal Fountain of Faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of All Holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of Evil and Death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!...

...Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, your are the joy, your are the honor of our people!Amen.

Pope Pius XII (1876-1958)
(Pontiff 1939-1958)
Blessed Art Thou: A Treasury of Marian Prayers and Devotions / Richard J. Beyer Imprint Notre Dame, IN : Ave Maria Press, c1996, BX2160.2 B46 1996, p. 134-135.

"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck".

 

[stray bullet]

Who said this? God, or the Pope?

"You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold, two and a half cubits long and one and a half cubits wide.
"You shall make two cherubim of gold, make them of hammered work at the two ends of the mercy seat.
"Make one cherub at one end and one cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim {of one piece} with the mercy seat at its two ends.
"The cherubim shall have {their} wings spread upward, covering the mercy seat with their wings and facing one another; the faces of the cherubim are to be {turned} toward the mercy seat.

I'll give you a hint:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

There is nothing wrong with statues or images. So long as they are not worshipped as deities, which Catholics and Orthodox do not. Like the cherubum, they get our mind off earthly things and on the Heavenly things.

 

[AwedbyGod]

I was raised Catholic and never once was I instructed to "worship Mary" or a statue. I don't know how many people have to tell you that before you will believe them. Why don't you just call us liars and be done with it? That way you can go on with your Quixotic quest and feel good about yourself. Because I really think that is what all of this is about. You have a need to show yourself as being some sort of Christian warror who is fighting the evils when you are really just thrashing about blindly at something that doesn't exist. Good luck with that.

Kneeling down before statues of the false Mary and calling her the "conqueress of sin and death" in her pagan "shrines, groves and altars" is very real.

Bend Tenderly Over Our Wounds

Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, he crowned you Queen of the Universe.

O crystal Fountain of Faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of All Holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of Evil and Death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!...

...Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, your are the joy, your are the honor of our people!Amen.

Pope Pius XII (1876-1958)
(Pontiff 1939-1958)
Blessed Art Thou: A Treasury of Marian Prayers and Devotions / Richard J. Beyer Imprint Notre Dame, IN : Ave Maria Press, c1996, BX2160.2 B46 1996, p. 134-135.

"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck".

 

[bibleberean]

Just because The RCC cult claims that it hold's Mary below God does not mean it isn't worship.

Idolatrous Israel still worshipped the most High but at the same time they worshipped the Queen of Heaven.

Jeremiah 7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

Jeremiah 7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

You see! There is a queen of heaven in the bible. God is not pleased when His people worship this devil!

The prophet Jeremiah warned the people not to worship this goddess but the people refused to listen!

Jeremiah 44:16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee.

Jeremiah 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

Today the cult of Rome will not repent of the fornication it promotes!

Instead it distorts and makes excuses for it's vile practices of idolatry!

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Kneeling down before statues of the false Mary and calling her the "conqueress of sin and death" in her pagan "shrines, groves and altars" is very real.

Bend Tenderly Over Our Wounds

Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, he crowned you Queen of the Universe.

O crystal Fountain of Faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of All Holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of Evil and Death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!...

...Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, your are the joy, your are the honor of our people!Amen.

Pope Pius XII (1876-1958)
(Pontiff 1939-1958)
Blessed Art Thou: A Treasury of Marian Prayers and Devotions / Richard J. Beyer Imprint Notre Dame, IN : Ave Maria Press, c1996, BX2160.2 B46 1996, p. 134-135.

"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck".

That last cliche couldn't be further from the truth- especially in the light of Christian understanding. No, MAN looks on the outside, God looks into the heart of the matter.

Robert, I'm ready whenever you wish and prepared to send to you via UPS, postage paid, a long birch railing left over from some stairway renovation... so that it can truly be said that you will not touch my points with the ten foot pole I provided.

You see, every time I box you in, or even simply ask fair, sensible questions, you just slip like quicksilver and continue unabated with the propaganda.

I responded and countered point-by-point your OP and subsequent posts, and you simply throw out more points of the type I've already countered. Were this a debate, you'd be disqualified.

Since this is only a Christian forum, you cannot be disqualified- but to those who are looking for substance over style and truth over rhetoric, you just end up looking foolish.

To be sure, there are those here who chortle, thinking that you've landed a blow against the great Catholic Satan.

Hoorah.

I recuse myself from this sham.