[_ Old Earth _] Warming Up

[Jacks Bratt]

The globe may be getting warmer. However, God knows it. God is allowing it and humans are not creating this trend with a gas that takes up a whopping 0.040% of our atmosphere. A "gas" people. A gas that is in such a small quantity that it is a decimal with a zero after it. That is called "trace" amounts.

Even if every little molecule of CO2 was red hot, how much would it affect the temperature? Now, think of this, the CO2 can only get as hot as the sun can heat it. Far from red hot.

Now, if you had a sealed room and every one of those 0.040% of molecules of CO2 in that room was as hot as it could get... would you worry?

In a room that is 3 meters wide and 3 meters long and 2 meters high, 0.040% of the space in that room would be smaller than a Rubik's cube.

So, if your "room" is cold, what are the chances of heating it with a warm Rubik's cube? Not happening.

Add to that, that the Pacific Ocean is the biggest heat sink of the earth. You are not going to change the temperature of that ocean, which is full of water that removes heat from you 25 times faster than the air, with 0.040% of the atmosphere getting a bit warmer.

The notion that man is raising the amount of this trace gas and that this is warming the globe and we HAVE TO STOP IT by paying taxes to our governments is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HOGWASH.

 

[Barbarian]

The great deception
A mountain falling from the sky
Wars and rumors of wars
Increasing persecution
Hail that burns
Increased earth quakes
Increased floods
Increased droughts
The coming days being like the days of Noah.

Things we can't change, we shouldn't worry about. We should focus on those things we can do something about. Once you learn this, life is better.

 

[Barbarian]

The globe may be getting warmer.

And faster than we had anticipated.

However, God knows it. God is allowing it and humans are not creating this trend with a gas that takes up a whopping 0.040% of our atmosphere.

Sorry, that's wrong. We indeed are warming things up by CO2 emissions.

A "gas" people. A gas that is in such a small quantity that it is a decimal with a zero after it. That is called "trace" amounts.

And it happens to absorb infrared rays at wavelengths which are not absorbed by other greenhouse gases. Even so, it only raises things by a degree or so, in most circumstances. So what difference does a degree or two make?

Last year, the sea surface temperatures in the subtropical Atlantic were as much as 1.1 degrees Celsius (2 degrees Fahrenheit) above normal, and about half of this increase can be attributed to global warming, according to Trenberth. In February, this warm spell contributed to a perfect storm, and "Snowmageddon 2010 " shut down a swath of the United States' East Coast, including Washington, D.C.

"The fact that this was a big one has a large element of chance, but the underlying environmental conditions associated with global warming mean that when the conditions are right, the result is bigger and better than anything else seen before," he told LiveScience in an e-mail.


In other words, day-to-day weather in a warmer world may remain about the same, but extreme events become more extreme.


While warming oceans may not produce more tropical storms and hurricanes – they may even produce fewer – those storms will be more intense, and with longer dry spells between them. More sporadic precipitation, combined with earlier snowmelt, particularly in mountains like the Rockies, will increase the risk of wildfires, according to Trenberth.


A study published in 2007 in the journal Climate Dynamics predicted wetter winters for the northeastern United States – with 10 to 15 percent more precipitation – and hotter summers, with increasing drought over the next century as things heat up...A 2010 report by the National Research Council, to which Pierrehumbert contributed, breaks down a series of incremental changes. Each one degree increase could mean up to 10 percent less rainfall during the Mediterranean, southwest North American and southern African dry seasons, and a corresponding increase in Alaska and other high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere. It also could mean up to 10 percent less stream flow in some river basins, including the Arkansas and the Rio Grande, and an up to 15 percent reduction in the corn crop in the U.S., Africa and wheat in India. Each degree could also bring up to a 400 percent increase in area burned by wildfire in parts of the western U.S. And the dizzying array of impacts the authors project widens as the increases rise above two degrees.
http://www.livescience.com/10325-living-warmer-2-degrees-change-earth.html

Even if every little molecule of CO2 was red hot, how much would it affect the temperature?

Carbon dioxide has a specific heat of roughly 850 thousand Joules per Kilogram (Kelvin scale).
We put about 40 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere from human activities, not including breathing.
That's a bit more than 36 trillion kilograms, which means at any given second, raising the temperature of that CO2 one degree Kelvin would add 30,600,000,000,000 Joules of energy to the atmosphere. (raising a temperature by one degree K is the same as raising it one degree C)

So how much energy is a Joule? It's the energy required to exert one Newton of force over one meter of distance. An apple weighs about one Newton. So think of lifting thirty quadrillion apples. That's how much thermal energy just one degree adds to the atmosphere though human-produced CO2, at any given point in time.

Yeah, over a year, it adds up. The math has been done, and it's very straightforward.

Now, if you had a sealed room and every one of those 0.040% of molecules of CO2 in that room was as hot as it could get... would you worry?

In a room that is 3 meters wide and 3 meters long and 2 meters high, 0.040% of the space in that room would be smaller than a Rubik's cube.

So, if your "room" is cold, what are the chances of heating it with a warm Rubik's cube? Not happening.

If it was red hot, it would be equivalent to a flame about four cubic inches in volume. And yes, that would warm up a room. Not by a lot, but as you see, it doesn't have to be a lot. A degree or two will be enough.

Add to that, that the Pacific Ocean is the biggest heat sink of the earth. You are not going to change the temperature of that ocean, which is full of water that removes heat from you 25 times faster than the air, with 0.040% of the atmosphere getting a bit warmer.

In fact, the ocean is warming up a bit faster than we predicted from human-induced warming. The mixing of water from the surface down complicates calculations, but yes, it is warming things up.

The notion that man is raising the amount of this trace gas and that this is warming the globe and we HAVE TO STOP IT by paying taxes to our governments is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HOGWASH.

I believe you'd be better disposed to look at the evidence, if you stopped trying to put the politics and finances into the equation. First, determine what is happening, and only later, worry about what, if anything, to do about it. If you let political concerns affect your analysis, then you are likely to delude yourself.[/quote]

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Things we can't change, we shouldn't worry about. We should focus on those things we can do something about. Once you learn this, life is better.

Absolutely

 

[Jacks Bratt]

And faster than we had anticipated.



Sorry, that's wrong. We indeed are warming things up by CO2 emissions.



And it happens to absorb infrared rays at wavelengths which are not absorbed by other greenhouse gases. Even so, it only raises things by a degree or so, in most circumstances. So what difference does a degree or two make?

Last year, the sea surface temperatures in the subtropical Atlantic were as much as 1.1 degrees Celsius (2 degrees Fahrenheit) above normal, and about half of this increase can be attributed to global warming, according to Trenberth. In February, this warm spell contributed to a perfect storm, and "Snowmageddon 2010 " shut down a swath of the United States' East Coast, including Washington, D.C.

"The fact that this was a big one has a large element of chance, but the underlying environmental conditions associated with global warming mean that when the conditions are right, the result is bigger and better than anything else seen before," he told LiveScience in an e-mail.


In other words, day-to-day weather in a warmer world may remain about the same, but extreme events become more extreme.


While warming oceans may not produce more tropical storms and hurricanes – they may even produce fewer – those storms will be more intense, and with longer dry spells between them. More sporadic precipitation, combined with earlier snowmelt, particularly in mountains like the Rockies, will increase the risk of wildfires, according to Trenberth.


A study published in 2007 in the journal Climate Dynamics predicted wetter winters for the northeastern United States – with 10 to 15 percent more precipitation – and hotter summers, with increasing drought over the next century as things heat up...A 2010 report by the National Research Council, to which Pierrehumbert contributed, breaks down a series of incremental changes. Each one degree increase could mean up to 10 percent less rainfall during the Mediterranean, southwest North American and southern African dry seasons, and a corresponding increase in Alaska and other high latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere. It also could mean up to 10 percent less stream flow in some river basins, including the Arkansas and the Rio Grande, and an up to 15 percent reduction in the corn crop in the U.S., Africa and wheat in India. Each degree could also bring up to a 400 percent increase in area burned by wildfire in parts of the western U.S. And the dizzying array of impacts the authors project widens as the increases rise above two degrees.
http://www.livescience.com/10325-living-warmer-2-degrees-change-earth.html



Carbon dioxide has a specific heat of roughly 850 thousand Joules per Kilogram (Kelvin scale).
We put about 40 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere from human activities, not including breathing.
That's a bit more than 36 trillion kilograms, which means at any given second, raising the temperature of that CO2 one degree Kelvin would add 30,600,000,000,000 Joules of energy to the atmosphere. (raising a temperature by one degree K is the same as raising it one degree C)

So how much energy is a Joule? It's the energy required to exert one Newton of force over one meter of distance. An apple weighs about one Newton. So think of lifting thirty quadrillion apples. That's how much thermal energy just one degree adds to the atmosphere though human-produced CO2, at any given point in time.

Yeah, over a year, it adds up. The math has been done, and it's very straightforward.



If it was red hot, it would be equivalent to a flame about four cubic inches in volume. And yes, that would warm up a room. Not by a lot, but as you see, it doesn't have to be a lot. A degree or two will be enough.



In fact, the ocean is warming up a bit faster than we predicted from human-induced warming. The mixing of water from the surface down complicates calculations, but yes, it is warming things up.



I believe you'd be better disposed to look at the evidence, if you stopped trying to put the politics and finances into the equation. First, determine what is happening, and only later, worry about what, if anything, to do about it. If you let political concerns affect your analysis, then you are likely to delude yourself.

[/QUOTE]
The lines between science, politics are gone forever. The time of science searching for truth is gone too. Instead of this, science has one goal..... prove a per-existing idea that removes God from the equation.

Science used to continually open new doors to new knowledge about this world.
Science today is gleaning through all the evidence and turfing anything that doesn't fit and glorifying any little tid bit that they can twist into their godless model. The tail, people, is wagging the dog.

Come back in 30 years and there will be no "global warming". There will be "climate change" though. This little change in their name allows them to wag the dog no matter what the climate does.... cool, warm, rain, drought..........."it's all mans fault"..... pah leeese.

God is in control... Amen?

 

[Barbarian]

The lines between science, politics are gone forever.

Marxists and other extremists say that "everything is political." But of course, it isn't. What is true, is independent of whatever you'd want to be true.

The time of science searching for truth is gone too. Instead of this, science has one goal..... prove a per-existing idea that removes God from the equation.

Odd then,that there are so many devout theists doing science. You don't spend much time with scientists, do you?

Science used to continually open new doors to new knowledge about this world.

And it is doing that now at an accelerating rate. Even in my own field, it's a struggle just to keep up with the major breakthroughs. The findings of basic science in biology are fueling an unprecedented increase in our ability to grow crops, maintain health, and understand the living world. Would you like to learn more about that?

Come back in 30 years and there will be no "global warming".

Wrong. That's what the deniers were saying in the 80s. And here we are, warming proceeds in spite of the deniers.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Marxists and other extremists say that "everything is political." But of course, it isn't. What is true, is independent of whatever you'd want to be true.



Odd then,that there are so many devout theists doing science. You don't spend much time with scientists, do you?



And it is doing that now at an accelerating rate. Even in my own field, it's a struggle just to keep up with the major breakthroughs. The findings of basic science in biology are fueling an unprecedented increase in our ability to grow crops, maintain health, and understand the living world. Would you like to learn more about that?



Wrong. That's what the deniers were saying in the 80s. And here we are, warming proceeds in spite of the deniers.

Like Christ said, wisdom will be proven by the future..."by her deeds" In other words, wisdom will be proven to be true wisdom when what this wisdom claims actually comes to fruition.
The future will tell who is correct and who has been deceived.

Matthew 11:18-19New International Version (NIV)

18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.”

 

[Barbarian]

In other words, wisdom will be proven to be true wisdom when what this wisdom claims actually comes to fruition.

And so it has. As you might know, as early as the 1970s, scientists were convinced that global warming was coming, due to increases in carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. And now, as you see, they were right.

 

[Barbarian]

Your data that contradicts the Word of God?

You're confusing your wishes with the word of God.

 

[Barbarian]

Climate change is a fact. The big debatable question is, are we sure humans are now influencing climate change? Secondarily, are we sure this is a net negative globally?

Yes, we are changing the climate on a worldwide basis. The warming trend matches nicely with the rise in human-produced CO2. And while most places, like the Gulf Coast or the American west, are beginning to see more adverse effects, it won't be universally so.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Yes, we are changing the climate on a worldwide basis. The warming trend matches nicely with the rise in human-produced CO2. And while most places, like the Gulf Coast or the American west, are beginning to see more adverse effects, it won't be universally so.

Or...... the rise in CO2 matches the rise in temperature due to natural cyclic systems.

You do realize the the oceans are huge and when you heat water it cannot hold as much dissolved gas, right? So when the ocean temperature rises, due to natural systems, it releases CO2....

The rise in CO2 is an effect, not a cause......

When this cycle subsides the oceans will have more dissolved CO2 from natural water cycles and the mega egg heads will shout "we are changing the history of the world with our taxes and carbon units and cap and trade, Yay us. We are man and we control the world"

Ya,,,, pathetic.

 

[Barbarian]

Or...... the rise in CO2 matches the rise in temperature due to natural cyclic systems.

Nope. We know precisely why the atmosphere warms up when there's more CO2 in it. It was first discovered back about 1900 by Svante Arrhenius.

You do realize the the oceans are huge and when you heat water it cannot hold as much dissolved gas, right?

Because of layering, it's a lot more complex than that. We've had a number of disasters, killing hundreds of people, because dissolved CO2 in lakes suddenly released because of changes in the layers of water. Carbon dioxide is released at a rate equal or higher to the amount being dissolved, when water is saturated with Carbon dioxide. It is far,far from saturated. Because carbon dioxide is slightly acidic in water,and because the oceans are slightly basic, we can note increase in CO2 content of the oceans by noting the lowering of the pH of the seas.

Between 1751 and 1994 surface ocean pH is estimated to have decreased from approximately 8.25 to 8.14,[7] representing an increase of almost 30% in H+ ion concentration in the world's oceans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification

So when the ocean temperature rises, due to natural systems, it releases CO2....

Nope. It would, if it was saturated. But it's not. So, it continues to absorb carbon dioxide. And yes, that's a worry, because changing the pH of the sea will affect sea life. We still don't know all the consequences.

The rise in CO2 is an effect, not a cause......

Sorry, that's not what the data show. We not only understand the mechanism, the temperature has continuously followed closely the CO2 concentration.

When this cycle subsides the oceans will have more dissolved CO2 from natural water cycles and the mega egg heads will shout "we are changing the history of the world with our taxes and carbon units and cap and trade, Yay us. We are man and we control the world"

And now you know better. That story was made by deniers, who failing to address the arguments of scientists, have resorted to making up stories about what they say and will say.

pathetic.

Yep.

 

[AGustOfWind]

Global temperatures, every month so far this year have been hotter than last year, which was at that time, the hottest on record. Unless something changes soon, we will have yet another record-breaking year.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts.txt

And it's now happening faster than the models predicted. I haven't given much thought to a catastrophic warming, but it's starting to concern me a bit.

Yep. Global warming taking it's toll on the Earth, the planet God made for us. Because of machines, megacorporations, and greed.

 

[AGustOfWind]

One thought is.....after the flood of Noah the ice caps formed. They reached well down into the states. The planet is still receeding from the effects of the flood.

If Young Earth Creationism is to be believed. Then again, that is indeed a silly doctrine. Fact of the matter is, we are destroying our environment, atmosphere, plant life, seasons, heat, etc... Because somebody forgot to look in their science book, and decided to claim that Global warming is false. Shame on that person.