Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?

[PurpleClover]

Hi all! I'm exploring Christianity and am hoping to post a number of questions that have been raised in my mind since I started researching.

It seems the questions I have aren't answered anywhere and so I figured it was time for me to engage more meaningfully with Christian people to try and fill the gaps in my understanding.

First question for discussion.

Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?

And the Bible says God created everything in 6 days - so Eden and Adam and Eve were all the first things to exist in the first 6 days of Creation.

Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs after this time.

So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.

Follow up question (just came to me) - how did Satan not exist yet when the Bible says God created *everything* in 6 days?

 

[stovebolts]

Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?

This is a good question, and no doubt you will get many different answers, views and perspectives to which all may not agree with one another. So my advice to you is this. Moses writes to a Hebrew audience with a specific purpose. This audience already knew the answer to the question you ask so it didn’t need to be explained to them. As a result, Moses does not go into great detail here.
Quiet simply, the serpent and Satan are one and the same.

And the Bible says God created everything in 6 days - so Eden and Adam and Eve were all the first things to exist in the first 6 days of Creation.

Not everything… Read it carefully. The creation account refers more specifically to earth. It briefly mentions heaven but does not detail heaven and there is no mention of Angels or the Satan.

Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs after this time.

I believe you are referring to Ezekiel 28, correct? First understand the duality of those verses through the lens of 1Kings 9-11 and understand it at a physical level first. When you understand scriptural things of this earth, you can begin to understand scriptural things relating to the heavens. Again, Moses wrote little to nothing about the heavens during the creation account by design.

So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.

Satan was the serpent in the same way Jesus created all things.

Colossians 1

The Supremacy of the Son of God​

15 The Son is the image(AH) of the invisible God,(AI) the firstborn(AJ) over all creation. 16 For in him all things were createdAK) things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;(AL) all things have been created through him and for him.(AM)17 He is before all things,(AN) and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head(AO) of the body, the church;(AP) he is the beginning and the firstborn(AQ) from among the dead,(AR) so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased(AS) to have all his fullness(AT)dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile(AU)to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven,(AV) by making peace(AW)through his blood,(AX) shed on the cross.

 

[eddif]

Hi all! I'm exploring Christianity and am hoping to post a number of questions that have been raised in my mind since I started researching.

It seems the questions I have aren't answered anywhere and so I figured it was time for me to engage more meaningfully with Christian people to try and fill the gaps in my understanding.

First question for discussion.

Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?

And the Bible says God created everything in 6 days - so Eden and Adam and Eve were all the first things to exist in the first 6 days of Creation.

Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs after this time.

So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.

Follow up question (just came to me) - how did Satan not exist yet when the Bible says God created *everything* in 6 days?

Now I know more.

Fooling with Christians is dangerous. Kind of like a creek bank or watering hole. Slippery banks may let you slip into the experience
Yourself.

Romans 1:20 kjv
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

When we walk in nature we are seein the creator God. We may not recognize him at first, but we are looking at his handiwork.

Time:
Did not start till day 4 of creation.

Days 1,2,3 were undefined length, just a dark period and a light period.

Day 4 the solar clock of 24 hour days, years, seasons was built.

Day 5,6,7 were 24 hour days. God got real busy in a hurry.

Slow down relax.
Read Genesis slowly. Ask God to explain things.
I think the heavens and earth came first. It was dark but God moved around.
Then he turned on light, if the sun and moon did not exist till day 4, what was this light? Christians have questions too,

Ok I have made comments in several threads. Other posters should follow.

eddif

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[PurpleClover]

This audience already knew the answer to the question you ask

Can you please elaborate on this?

 

[PurpleClover]

Quiet simply, the serpent and Satan are one and the same.

But that what I'm asking...how can they be?? Satan came into existence following the disobedience of the angel, which didn't happen during Creation, correct? So how can the serpent be Satan when Eden *did* come into existence during Creation?

 

[WIP]

But that what I'm asking...how can they be?? Satan came into existence following the disobedience of the angel, which didn't happen during Creation, correct? So how can the serpent be Satan when Eden *did* come into existence during Creation?

I'm not quite following your train of thought. Perhaps you can be more specific and include Scripture references to more clearly explain what you mean?

 

[PurpleClover]

In another forum it has been explained to me that the bible doesn't say the snake in Eden is Satan - he's just a crafty, slimy snake! Or becomes one following his punishment...

This clears this one up for me! Any disagreements?

 

[eddif]

Hi all! I'm exploring Christianity and am hoping to post a number of questions that have been raised in my mind since I started researching.

It seems the questions I have aren't answered anywhere and so I figured it was time for me to engage more meaningfully with Christian people to try and fill the gaps in my understanding.

First question for discussion.

Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?

And the Bible says God created everything in 6 days - so Eden and Adam and Eve were all the first things to exist in the first 6 days of Creation.

Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs after this time.

So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.

Follow up question (just came to me) - how did Satan not exist yet when the Bible says God created *everything* in 6 days?

Ephesians 6:12 kjv
12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Maybe looking at a more up to date scripture can help.

We tend to see people, disease, the economy, etc . As our problems.
What we actually face is fallen spiritual forces at work. I do not try to define these forces. Not flesh and blood is ok by me.

Lucifer was created a wonderful whatever ( whatever is used to avoid conflicts of opinion). Iniquity showed up. Just study this area of thought.

So the serpent (flesh and blood (?). Not a belly mover. Had encountered a spiritual force that provided the information he presented. Did the serpent suffer for presenting the wrong information? Yes. So Eve passed the information along? Did she suffer? Yes. Jump ahead Adam suffered too.

Today if we pass heresy along some more may suffer. People are not the ultimate problem. The problem has a higher origin. Do we warn of heresy? Yes.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Exeter]

Hi all! I'm exploring Christianity and am hoping to post a number of questions that have been raised in my mind since I started researching.

It seems the questions I have aren't answered anywhere and so I figured it was time for me to engage more meaningfully with Christian people to try and fill the gaps in my understanding.

First question for discussion.

Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?

And the Bible says God created everything in 6 days - so Eden and Adam and Eve were all the first things to exist in the first 6 days of Creation.

Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs after this time.

So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.

Follow up question (just came to me) - how did Satan not exist yet when the Bible says God created *everything* in 6 days?

There is a branch of Biblical Theology called Satanology which includes the following content based on Scripture:

• Lucifer was a high-ranking angel created by God.
• He was given responsibilities in the Garden of Eden
• He allowed pride to influence him.
• His pride caused him to have delusions of grandeur and to rebell against God's Will.
• He became Satan the Adversary of God and caused Adam and Eve to sin when he spoke through a serpent in the Garden of Eden.
• This ensured his removal from the Third Heaven of God's Sanctuary.
• He still had access to God in the Celestial and Atmospheric Heavens

Satan means Adversary, namely to God, so it was Lucifer who was created perfect and he was not Satan until he opposed God in Eden.

The two analogies with the king of Tyre and king of Babylon give us a timeline:

Eze 28:12-15 "Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. (13) You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. (14) "You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. (15) You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.

Isa 14:12-14 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! (13) For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

The translation pathway that gives us the name Lucifer makes no difference to the fact that "Lucifer" was perfect in all his ways until iniquity was found in him, Ezekiel 28:15. At that time the Garden of Eden had been created and he had walked in it, Ezekiel 28:13.

Michael versus Satan

Rev 12:7-9 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, (8) but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. (9) So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Have you ever pondered this event?

We have the scene before us of Michael and his angels fighting against Satan and his angels.

This battle takes place in the second heaven, the celestial sphere we call outer space. ocation.

The Three Heavens:

1. A Geographical Location: The first heaven is the atmosphere that surrounds our planet, our sky.
2. A Cosmographical Location: The second heaven is the celestial sphere we call outer space.
3. A Theographical Location: The third heaven is the dwelling place of God and His heavenly host.

Paul mentions the third heaven:

2Co 12:1-4 It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: (2) I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. (3) And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— (4) how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

In Revelation 12 Satan is depicted as a seven-headed dragon with seven crowns and ten horns. In theology this is an extremely meaningful representation of Satan's quest to control, rule, and enforce in opposition to God.

The cause of the showdown between Michael and his angels and Satan and his angels is given in this report:

Rev 12:3-4 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. (4) His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.

In natural physical terms if a third of the stars were to fall to earth the result would be its destruction, so what is in view is the efforts of Satan to darken the minds of all people on earth by removing their illumination, but he is only able to do this in part, and as we know, his infanticide of the Messiah which Israel gives birth to is unsuccessful.

Satan already had access to earth and its atmosphere but after losing the battle with Michael and his angels he and his angels are denied further access to the higher realms.

 

[Edward]

Time:
Did not start till day 4 of creation.

I'm pretty sure time started on day one Brother.

We have time, space and matter all created in verse one of Genesis 1

In the beginning (of time), God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter).

Time came about with the creation of the universe. The universe is sxpanding, right? Well scientists discovered that time clicks off at the same exact rate that the universe is expanding.

I think it was Einstein that discovered this. He caught on that there is a link between space and time. So it's actually spacetime.

 

[eddif]

I'm pretty sure time started on day one Brother.

We have time, space and matter all created in verse one of Genesis 1

In the beginning (of time), God created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter).

Time came about with the creation of the universe. The universe is sxpanding, right? Well scientists discovered that time clicks off at the same exact rate that the universe is expanding.

I think it was Einstein that discovered this. He caught on that there is a link between space and time. So it's actually spacetime.

Genesis 1:14 kjv
14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Verse 14 seems to indicate time, as we know it, did not exist till day four.

Before day 4 nothing defined the length of a day. A day was a dark and a light period.

Ultimately Jesus is the spiritual light.

Revelation 10:6 kjv
6. And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Other translations use delay. God is in eternity before time and after time IMHO

Revelation 22:5 kjv
5. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

Ok this is some scripture about time, but there are others.

State your case. I am always open to scripture. Scripture also states we know God by what he created.

eddif

 

[Edward]

State your case. I am always open to scripture. Scripture also states we know God by what he created.

(from memory) that study revealed that....trying to remember, that on day four He didn't actually create those things but rather set them in their proper place as if at least some were prexisting and the translation makes it unclear but in the original language it comes clear.

But this is going to take some digging around for me notes! So give me awhile, Lol! I'll work it into my day if at all possible.

 

[JLB]

Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs aft

Why would logic assume that Lucifer (Satan) was removed fron heaven after the garden of eden?

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:9




JLB

 

[Edward]

Genesis 1:14 kjv
14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

Verse 14 seems to indicate time, as we know it, did not exist till day four.

Before day 4 nothing defined the length of a day. A day was a dark and a light period.

Ultimately Jesus is the spiritual light.

Revelation 10:6 kjv
6. And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Other translations use delay. God is in eternity before time and after time IMHO

Revelation 22:5 kjv
5. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

Ok this is some scripture about time, but there are others.

State your case. I am always open to scripture. Scripture also states we know God by what he created.

eddif

I found some of it. The scholars (supposedly) agree that, the sun was created on the first day.

Genesis
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.[a] 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.”

And evening passed and morning came, marking the first day.../

The Lord defined the length of a day in verses 4 & 5

4 And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.”.../

The length of time is from one sunset to the next sunset. Man gow smart and figured out they could make a timer and it almost matched that length of time of one day exactly. Then they got uppity and said it's from midnight to midnight and this is what time it is... Close, but no cookie.

Ok, moving on, you presume to believe that the sun was created on the 4th day, right? O Let's go there.

Genesis 14-19
14 Then God said, “Let lights appear in the sky to separate the day from the night. Let them be signs to mark the seasons, days, and years. 15 Let these lights in the sky shine down on the earth.” And that is what happened.

16 God made two great lights—the larger one to govern the day, and the smaller one to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set these lights in the sky to light the earth, 18 to govern the day and night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

Let's zero in on that verse 16, shall we? God made two great lights. God "made" two great lights, and this is the fourth day! But waitaminute, wasn't plants created on the third day? Don't they need light?
Third day:
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

19 And evening passed and morning came, marking the fourth day.../

Read closely now, let the earth bring forth grass and plants. Not, Jesus created them by hand like He did Adam. So all the constituants were already in the ground and God said, let the earth bring it forth. That's important. For the earth and plants to be able to flourish they need photosynthises, aka, the sun. Conclusion, the sun was already there before day four. Before day three even!

Which brings us back to verse 16
16 And God made two great lights;.../

We better go to the Concordance then!
Ok. God "made"

The word 'made' in Hebrew is H6213 Asa

An outline of the Hebrew usage of the word says it can be used to:

1. to attend to, put in order
2. • to act, act with effect, effect.

H6213 - ʿāśâ - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (kjv)

H6213 - עָשָׂה ʻâsâh, aw-saw'; a primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application:—accomplish, advance, appoint, apt, be at, become, bear, bestow, bring forth, bruise, be busy, certainly, have the charge of, commit, deal (with), deck, displease, do, (ready)...

www.blueletterbible.org

So the Lord set the sun in it's proper place on the fourth day and all the stars and planets. And then, we could use them to track time for ourselves, for seasons and all that.

Does that cover it enough? Any other questions?

(Praise the Lord I found that so quick! I didn't think I could, lol.)

 

[Edward]

Genesis 1
17 God set these lights in the sky to light the earth,../

Because they had already been created, they just needed to be set in their order and positioning.

 

[eddif]

Genesis 1
17 God set these lights in the sky to light the earth,../

Because they had already been created, they just needed to be set in their order and positioning.

Go back and read revelation 22:5 I posted.

There is light that is not from the sun. I also asked what was that light on earlier days.

Now. At the transfiguration

Matthew 17:2 kjv
2. And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

God himself can be a source of light. The presence of God can be a source of light.

Man wants to be in charge so bad. Food and drink sabbaths and holy days were shadows of things to come, but the body is Christ.

The physical we see is not the ultimate reality.

The two women were two covenants, and not just two women. I leave you to look that up.

That the eyes of your understanding is not about eyes.
Ephesians 1:18 kjv
18. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19. And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set himat his own right hand in the heavenly places
21. Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

The law grew before the reality of the kingdom appeared.

I need to chill.

eddif

 

[Soul man]

But that what I'm asking...how can they be?? Satan came into existence following the disobedience of the angel, which didn't happen during Creation, correct? So how can the serpent be Satan when Eden *did* come into existence during Creation?

Search Isaiah

 

[Edward]

Go back and read revelation 22:5 I posted.

There is light that is not from the sun. I also asked what was that light on earlier days.

Now. At the transfiguration

Matthew 17:2 kjv
2. And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

God himself can be a source of light. The presence of God can be a source of light.

Man wants to be in charge so bad. Food and drink sabbaths and holy days were shadows of things to come, but the body is Christ.

The physical we see is not the ultimate reality.

The two women were two covenants, and not just two women. I leave you to look that up.

That the eyes of your understanding is not about eyes.
Ephesians 1:18 kjv
18. The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
19. And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20. Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set himat his own right hand in the heavenly places
21. Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

The law grew before the reality of the kingdom appeared.

I need to chill.

eddif

...
he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,../

What if they aren'r stars at all, but holes poked in the top of the container so we can breath?

 

[Edward]

Man's best Inventor: It's called a clock and it will have 12 numbers on it.

Friend: So the day will be divided into 12 segments...

Inventor: No, 24 segments.

Friend: So the day will start at 1

Inventor: No the day will start at the 12, which is at night

Friend:

Inventor: the 6 means 30

Friend:

 

[eddif]

Man's best Inventor: It's called a clock and it will have 12 numbers on it.

Friend: So the day will be divided into 12 segments...

Inventor: No, 24 segments.

Friend: So the day will start at 1

Inventor: No the day will start at the 12, which is at night

Friend:

Inventor: the 6 means 30

Friend:

I thought the solar system was our clock. Universe?
I thought rhe day ( night ) started at 6PM. I thought the light started at 6 AM.

Time of prayer 9AM. I am Probably reading some side notes.

eddif