Was Satan in the Garden of Eden?

[PurpleClover]

Hi all! I'm exploring Christianity and am hoping to post a number of questions that have been raised in my mind since I started researching.

It seems the questions I have aren't answered anywhere and so I figured it was time for me to engage more meaningfully with Christian people to try and fill the gaps in my understanding.

First question for discussion.

Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?

And the Bible says God created everything in 6 days - so Eden and Adam and Eve were all the first things to exist in the first 6 days of Creation.

Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs after this time.

So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.

Follow up question (just came to me) - how did Satan not exist yet when the Bible says God created *everything* in 6 days?

 

[Degas]

Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?

Almost... but, no

So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.

Exactly, Satan didn't exist yet!

Quiet simply, the serpent and Satan are one and the same.

Actually, the Bible doesn't make any difference between satan and Lucifer but they are different. The serpent is an allegory of Lucifer, not satan.

how did Satan not exist yet when the Bible says God created *everything* in 6 days?

Good thinking and very relevant question!

God created everything... but that which was later created by human beings, obviously

As opposed to Lucifer who is an angel and who was indeed created within 6 (metaphoric) days, satan is a byproduct of our sins. It hence didn't exist before the original sin. All human beings except saints sustain satan. If all human beings became saints overnight, satan would immediately cease to exist. Lucifer, on the other hand, would remain. He would have lost his deceptive power over human beings, but he would still exist.

 

[stovebolts]

Actually, the Bible doesn't make any difference between satan and Lucifer but they are different. The serpent is an allegory of Lucifer, not satan.

hmm, I actually find this a very interesting reply.
How do you come to that conclusion... and have you ever studied the original Hebrew for these two words?
And since you say the Bible does not make any difference between these two names, what source are you referring to that does?

As opposed to Lucifer who is an angel and who was indeed created within 6 (metaphoric) days, satan is a byproduct of our sins. It hence didn't exist before the original sin. All human beings except saints sustain satan. If all human beings became saints overnight, satan would immediately cease to exist. Lucifer, on the other hand, would remain. He would have lost his deceptive power over human beings, but he would still exist.

Please explain how you have come to this conclusion... It's rather unorthodox.

 

[Degas]

And since you say the Bible does not make any difference between these two names, what source are you referring to that does?

As you know from my signature, I witness per the request and in the name of Jesus whom I met in Heaven. As much as possible, I back up my 'gospel' (meaning 'good news' in ancient Greek) with Bible verses but it's not always possible. As for Lucifer and satan being different, I don't know -- for now -- of any Bible verse confirming this.

 

[Edward]

As you know from my signature, I witness per the request and in the name of Jesus whom I met in Heaven. As much as possible, I back up my 'gospel' (meaning 'good news' in ancient Greek) with Bible verses but it's not always possible. As for Lucifer and satan being different, I don't know -- for now -- of any Bible verse confirming this.

I believe that's ludicrous. Heaven didn't give you any scriptures to back you up...???

But, but but....that's what they do! That's how it works. So that's impossible.

I've heard so many testimonies from so many different people who were taken up to heaven and told to bring a message which was perviously unknown to the people. You know what the said to the Lord?
Lord, I'm going to need some scriptures for that or people wont believe me...and every single time the Lord gave them scriptures and explained the relevance.

There's nothing to suggest that the Lord did not have foreknowledge that you would be needing some scriptures today in the deliverance of His word which He instructed you to bring to us.
Brother, Brother....that's not how the Lord works. Our Lord Jesus is not the author of confusion. Our Lord the Truth and the Light He always brings clarity.

So by all means Brother, please clarify yourself with scriptures.

Because there's no such thing as loose ends in the Lord's Kingdom.

Your turn.

 

[Randy]

Someone evil tempted Adam and Eve to sin against God and the end result was death entered the world through their sin.

If you read Ezekiel 28 you get the impression that God is not just speaking about the King of Tyre.

You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. b
Your settings and mountings c were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.’ ”

 

[christian1724]

Hi PurpleClover,
Over the years I've come to regard Genesis 1 as more symbolic than my initial understanding. What seems to be overtly presented does not well reveal what that actual message is. I think a little abstraction can sometimes be very clarifying and I think this chapter is a good example of that.

The chapter begins with the creation of spiritual and physical realms and immediately tells of the fall of the physical one into confusion an darkness.

Genesis 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The next verse is a remedy for verse 2 (or those who are found in that situation). It is for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear the Word of God (which is Light and Truth (or in other words, Jesus/saving grace))

Genesis 1:3-5
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is made clearer by reading John 1.

Next God addresses the separating of the 'waters'. He places a separator between the waters whose abode is to be 'above' and those waters who are to exist 'beneath' in the physical realm of the earth. Later in the book (Genesis 6), that separator is violated when some waters above the separator descend upon the earth. This contamination will result in the near total destruction of the those waters of the earth/physical realm.

---

God said He declares the end from the beginning (the name of the book actually means 'beginning'). Please consider that much of what you read in this book may be symbolic in that manner.

Also, my observation isn't intended to be a historical documentation of the history of the earth and the solar system. It's just an abstraction that I that I hope will render a better focus on the chapter.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[for_his_glory]

Since the beginning of Gods creation of the heavens and earth in Genesis chapter one there has been an adversary that separates us from God through deceit, temptations and lies. This adversary has many names which include: Lucifer (could be a dual referent to Isaiah 14:12, but no mention in scripture as to, or even if God gave him a name), Satan, Devil, Beelzebub, Belial, Adversary, Dragon, Serpent and I’m sure a few others, but the important thing is who this being is and what purpose did he have and still has in heaven and earth. How did he come into existence in the first place and why was he not destroyed for his evil! Let us go and search the word of God for the answers.

God is a Spirit without form and the Lord made his angels spirits without form also. From these two scriptures below in John and Psalms we see that the inhabitants of heaven are not flesh and blood, but spirits created by God that cannot be destroyed by physical death, thus the term spiritual death that separates us from God. This is why Satan could never be physically destroyed.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Psalms 104:4 who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

In the Roman language Lucifer was the name given to the morning star Venus. The morning star appears in the sky just before dawn. In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can be translated as Day star, son of the Dawn. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor Day star, son of the Dawn, as Lucifer, and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place from the Latin in that of interpreting Lucifer into a fallen angel now named Satan. In the original Hebrew day star, son of the dawn is used, but not for that of Satan, but for the king of Babylon. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light (Jesus) to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded.

The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.

Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as one of the two guardian cherubs covering the atonement cover of the ark in the tabernacle of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord, Ezekiel 28:14, 15. The physical Tabernacle or Sanctuary in Jerusalem was patterned after the heavenly Tabernacle of God in heaven, Hebrews 9:1-5, 23,24; Exodus 25:17-22; 1 Kings 6:19-28. These scriptures describe the cherubim in the earthly Temple patterned after the heavenly. Ezekiel 28:12-15 identifies an angelic being who is called the anointed cherub who covers and he was on the holy mountain of God. We can only assume that Lucifer/Satan was one of the cherubs by the description in those scripture.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.

Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus – another dual referent)

Satan is the father of lies and can transform himself into anything he chooses like the serpent in the Garden of Eden and an angel of light that deceives the world. Satan was a created spirit without form so in order for him to deceive the nations he has to use something of substance to accomplish this and this is why it is so important to learn how to discern the spirits that are out there whether they be of God or of Satan as his spirit can enter into anyone he chooses if they are not of God, (Ref: read 2Peter Chapter 2).

 

[Mosheli]

Hi all! I'm exploring Christianity and am hoping to post a number of questions that have been raised in my mind since I started researching.

It seems the questions I have aren't answered anywhere and so I figured it was time for me to engage more meaningfully with Christian people to try and fill the gaps in my understanding.

First question for discussion.

Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?

And the Bible says God created everything in 6 days - so Eden and Adam and Eve were all the first things to exist in the first 6 days of Creation.

Logic would then suggest the story of the angel getting booted from Heaven and becoming Satan occurs after this time.

So who was the serpent in the Garden? Satan didn't exist yet.

Follow up question (just came to me) - how did Satan not exist yet when the Bible says God created *everything* in 6 days?

Yes Satan seems to have been in Eden as or through/possessing the "Serpent" or "shining one" or "he who knows secrets" or "magus" Nahash in the Genesis story of the fall, since Revelation calls him the Dragon (Dinosaur) and the Serpent. Genesis also implies the seed of the serpent is of Satan. A snake is a good symbol because it symbolises cyclic ancient/eternal (sheds skin, tail in mouth) and hisser (in ear) and it loosing its wings/legs to crawl on ground similar to Devil thrown to earth from heaven, and it strikes fast/swift (like "prince of power of the air"?) and is supposed to symbolise wise/wisdom. There are also similar versions of the tempting serpent in Eden in mythologies of some other nations though sometimes it is a slightly different but similar animal like a sea-bird or spider. He seems to be the same as Leviathan in another verse.

We only know that Satan fell somewhere between the end of the 6th day when everything was "very good" and the fall of man after the 7th day. Though some say Satan/Sammael fell before "Satan's Flood" in the 1st day (earth formless and void, waters of great deep). Islam has Iblis/Shaitan refusing to bow to Adam.
We don't know exactly when the angel that later became Satan was created. Job implies they were the "morning stars". The angels might have been the "host", or the "stars/lights", or the "birds" created in the first 6 days, or the animals who Adam gave names to in Genesis 2. Hislop's two Babylon's makes the lesser light the moon (ruler of the night/dark) match Satan.
We knew he was created before the end of the 6th day when everything the heavens and the earth and all their host were finished and were "very good". We also don't know how long there was between Adam's creation and the fall. So can't say he didn't exist then.

I think there is a verse which says he was the guardian cherub, and some think he is one of the angels on the Ark of the Covenant, which may be he was one of the angels around the throne in heaven, and maybe could mean he was one of the 2 cherubs with flaming sword guarding way to Eden after Adam & Eve expelled? Another verse implies he walked on the fiery/pointed stones, and I think I've seen similar in connection with Eden?
Some believe Satan is same as Helel ben Sachar "Lucifer son of the morning (star)" in Isaiah 14 (and Satan is said to be able to disguise himself as an angel of light). Helel might be from Sumerian Enlil (or Insakh/Sakh) (Akkadian Ellil, Hittite Ellel) who separated Heaven and Earth, and who some old sources call lord of the ghost world, and who took earth as his realm/prize/share.

 

[PurpleClover]

Why would logic assume that Lucifer (Satan) was removed fron heaven after the garden of eden?

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Revelation 12:9




JLB

Hi PurpleClover,
Over the years I've come to regard Genesis 1 as more symbolic than my initial understanding. What seems to be overtly presented does not well reveal what that actual message is. I think a little abstraction can sometimes be very clarifying and I think this chapter is a good example of that.

The chapter begins with the creation of spiritual and physical realms and immediately tells of the fall of the physical one into confusion an darkness.

​

The next verse is a remedy for verse 2 (or those who are found in that situation). It is for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear the Word of God (which is Light and Truth (or in other words, Jesus/saving grace))

​

This is made clearer by reading John 1.

Next God addresses the separating of the 'waters'. He places a separator between the waters whose abode is to be 'above' and those waters who are to exist 'beneath' in the physical realm of the earth. Later in the book (Genesis 6), that separator is violated when some waters above the separator descend upon the earth. This contamination will result in the near total destruction of the those waters of the earth/physical realm.

---

God said He declares the end from the beginning (the name of the book actually means 'beginning'). Please consider that much of what you read in this book may be symbolic in that manner.

Also, my observation isn't intended to be a historical documentation of the history of the earth and the solar system. It's just an abstraction that I that I hope will render a better focus on the chapter.

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you, that's helpful. Except....no one else has offered this answer. So who is correct? How do we know what is right with so many interpretations of the same words? Would God not have been clearer if it was Him speaking??

I still haven't even found a clear explanation as to *why* people believe the First Testament is the Word of God...South Park mocks Mormons because their belief is based on one dude going off and coming back saying God spoke to him....as far as I can tell, Christianity is based on the same outrageous claim! But surely I'm missing something or how do so many people buy into this?!?!

 

[christian1724]

Shopping for a God is a difficult proposition for sure, I don't envy you. Place on top of that, all of the misinformation you might have been taught all of your life from public education, South Park, social media, main stream media... whew! It's seems a little scary to be honest.

As I have time, I will gladly give you my viewpoints or thoughts on specific questions if you would like, just keep in mind that the journey is yours and where is leads you is highly dependent on your own efforts. I might not agree with South Park or other people, for example, others on this forum, but that is inevitable and you can sort that out on your own as much as possible unless you just want to share what you've learned with me.

The Truth can only come to you by the will of God and by your Faithful seeking of it. You should expect to get out of it what you put into it. May God be with you.

 

[Exeter]

If all human beings became saints overnight, satan would immediately cease to exist.

In contending earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints I have to say the premise quoted above is a truly false gnostic teaching with no Scriptural basis.

 

[Edward]

How do we know what is right with so many interpretations of the same words? Would God not have been clearer if it was Him speaking??

I still haven't even found a clear explanation as to *why* people believe the First Testament is the Word of God...South Park mocks Mormons because their belief is based on one dude going off and coming back saying God spoke to him....as far as I can tell, Christianity is based on the same outrageous claim! But surely I'm missing something or how do so many people buy into this?!?!

I can see where your difficulty lies, my friend. It is a mistake to look towards an evil secular homo anti God cartoon which gives no glory to God for your religious information.

You need to read your Bible or you will never ever get understanding about any of this. If ye be a Christian then you have a duty to syudy the word of God. The Lord promises to lead you into all truth if you study the scriptures daily and pray to Him and ask for wisdom and understanding.

That's how you know who's right. You could listen to the best preacher in the world and he still might get something wrong, he's only a man. So we still have to do our own homework.

 

[grumix8]

The devil is lucifer and satan. Truly their has been great controversie but know the enemy is making that controversie to confuse so he doesn't take the blame. He has been satan enemy of God. The question is that the serpent had wings and was a creation of the lord but the devil possesed it, he did not create nothing in the garden all was God's creation but still Samael how he possesed the serpent in which way for the lord made the garden in way he could not pass. Did he taught the serpent his secret and showed him what to say? or did he possesed him and hypnotize the serpent and told him to eat the fruit of the tree and he knowed to what is good and evil ? The serpent did it before Adam and Eve ?

Did the serpent accept the devil and was inside him and it was the devil who spoke thru the seprent while talking to Eve ? Their are many possibilities we do not know ? But he did the crime and still the serpent is not known in the past really how it looked because some say it has wings since the name Seraph is why that name was given to the order of angels " Seraphim " has and it may not be really it's name but another in Hebrew for it was a concept hebrew people in those times believe serpent to be part of his angel heirarchy and truly some stories talk about the egyptians mythology about serpent with wings and halos are God creation they are used by in heavens and hebrew who are influence by those times wrote stories about it not really people serpents are inside God's angel heirarchy. Those Seraphims have six wings and beings of light no serpent in it.

No serpent in bible is worshipped is it rejected and it is used by the devil not God, God's symbols people are the Menorah the trees but still people are babylon and still confused. Know that no where in the bible says the name of angels of the ark of the covenant or if Lucifer is one it does not truly people truly many attempts the devil is trying to make him the creator of our world and his excuse to continue he's evil. So people agree to be on his side truly I know Mosheli said everything about the cherubs and that lucifer is the cherub because I read them to know those stories but cannot be claimed true Mosheli is not on the devil side explaining what many said but still people Lucifer did use the serpent and he did the evil deed and the serpent is perhaps is innocent and A victim of the sitaution in another point of view. Know we are saved and the solution came as Jesus and no serpent of egyptian mythology saved us but God as man died for us and pure man so all can be saved thru love.

 

[for_his_glory]

2Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Timothy 2:16 but shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Satan being a created spirit/angel God created becoming prideful while in the garden of Eden, before the creation of man, can only work through that of substance like the serpent in the garden.

In the beginning, just for a moment think of what these three words mean. The beginnings of everything that God created and all things did God create in the beginning. In the beginning God created day and night, heaven, dry land, plants and sea. God created ocean life and land animals and then he created man in his own image. With everything finished, God was satisfied and rested on the seventh day.

Since the beginning of Gods creation of the heavens and earth in Genesis chapter one there has been an adversary that separates us from God through deceit, temptations and lies. This adversary has many names which include: Lucifer (could be a dual referent to Isaiah 14:12, but no mention in scripture as to, or even if God gave him a name), Satan, Devil, Beelzebub, Belial, Adversary, Dragon, Serpent and I’m sure a few others, but the important thing is who this being is and what purpose did he have and still has in heaven and earth. How did he come into existence in the first place and why was he not destroyed for his evil! Let us go and search the word of God for the answers.

God is a Spirit without form and the Lord made his angels spirits without form also. From these two scriptures below in John and Psalms we see that the inhabitants of heaven are not flesh and blood, but spirits created by God that cannot be destroyed by physical death, thus the term spiritual death that separates us from God. This is why Satan could never be physically destroyed.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Psalms 104:4 who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

 

[Degas]

In contending earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints I have to say the premise quoted above is a truly false gnostic teaching with no Scriptural basis.

If you think God's word can be contained in a tiny book -- or any book, for that matter -- then you really know nothing of God. Now, if you think you know your scriptures so well, why are you ignoring John 16:12?

 

[Blade]

Hi "Was Satan in the Garden of Eden? As the serpent, correct?" Yes. We know God said he was in the garden and ever stone....."You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering....on the day he was created" I personally do not believe the serpent and Satan are the one in the same. When the serpent was made it was like every other animal. From the word I believe the fall had already happened. So I believe Satan used the serpent to talk to Adam and Eve. It was after that all were kicked out. I KNOW I can be 100% wrong here haha

That being said some believe man and angles were all created during those 6 days Some believe ..well to make it simple Satan was left out of the conversation about man being created and that was a reason he got made.. left the house

We also have lol the "gap" theory between Gen 1:1 and 1:2. Steve the 2nd post said it best "This is a good question, and no doubt you will get many different answers, views and perspectives to which all may not agree with one another."

Its just not written. Its something that in this life does not help us at all. After all this we will know. What we know now is we have all power and all authority over the enemy.

 

[Vinny37]

As C S Lewis said in his book, Miracles, the early part of Genesis was written in mythic style, long recognised. After 60 years as a Christian, I have moved away from too literal an interpretation of it, and have switched to the Old Earth opinion, which I think the science evidences, ie billennia.

Is there a literal Satan? Yes. Was he in the Garden of Eden? Yes. Did the Garden represent man’s origin or renewal after perhaps Toba? I don’t know.

Perry Marshall’s Evolution 2.0 is a best buy, incidentally, discounting atheism from a biological evolution standpoint. He’s got a lot of stuff on the internet, BTW, not simply on cancer.