Was the Gospel preached to the inhabited world pre-AD70?

[Alabaster]

[video=youtube;rK0E7SVImCg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rK0E7SVImCg&feature=related[/video]

 

[Stormcrow]

Couldn't sleep...bad sinuses.

Alabaster...The very idea that you would respond with two videos trying to refute a doctrine I have never admitted to indicates to me that you're seeing everything in terms of doctrine.

I'm simply trying to get you to see what the word says.

This isn't a doctrinal issue. Either Christ said something or He didn't. Let's simplify this:

When the disciples were following Jesus out of the Temple, did they call attention to the beauty of it all?

Yes or no?

Did Christ - in response to their awe - tell them that not one stone would be left on top another?

Yes or no?

Did they ask Him when this would happen?

Yes or no?

Did He tell them what to watch for when the time was nearing for it to happen?

Yes or no?

Did He tell them to flee the city when they saw a certain sign?

Yes or no?

Were the city and Temple destroyed?

Yes or no?

Just deal with these basics first. If - after reading the Olivet Discourse - you can't answer yes to at least some of these very simple, basic questions, then maybe the problem isn't with me, the text, or even preterism: Maybe the problem lies with the way you're approaching it.

Again, this isn't about doctrine: it's about taking Christ at His word.

 

[Sam21]

Couldn't sleep...bad sinuses.

Alabaster...The very idea that you would respond with two videos trying to refute a doctrine I have never admitted to indicates to me that you're seeing everything in terms of doctrine.

I'm simply trying to get you to see what the word says.

This isn't a doctrinal issue. Either Christ said something or He didn't. Let's simplify this:

When the disciples were following Jesus out of the Temple, did they call attention to the beauty of it all?

Yes or no?

Did Christ - in response to their awe - tell them that not one stone would be left on top another?

Yes or no?

Did they ask Him when this would happen?

Yes or no?

Did He tell them what to watch for when the time was nearing for it to happen?

Yes or no?

Did He tell them to flee the city when they saw a certain sign?

Yes or no?

Were the city and Temple destroyed?

Yes or no?

Just deal with these basics first. If - after reading the Olivet Discourse - you can't answer yes to at least some of these very simple, basic questions, then maybe the problem isn't with me, the text, or even preterism: Maybe the problem lies with the way you're approaching it.

Again, this isn't about doctrine: it's about taking Christ at His word.

Sorry but the problem is partly with you, what you wrote is true,however Jesus also said that the sun would go dark and the stars fall and that He would return in the sky to gather the believers...THAT DID NOT HAPPEN, and it was all included in ONE DISCOURSE, so there has to be more to what Jesus said then just what happened in the first century.

 

[Lehigh3]

I thought we had already discussed the symbolism about the sun, moon & stars in scripture.
Do we have to do a review?
Oh, & not to mention God's "cloud comings?!!" (in a like manner!)

 

[Stormcrow]

Sorry but the problem is partly with you, what you wrote is true,however Jesus also said that the sun would go dark and the stars fall and that He would return in the sky to gather the believers...THAT DID NOT HAPPEN, and it was all included in ONE DISCOURSE, so there has to be more to what Jesus said then just what happened in the first century.

Yes, they are all part of the same discourse, but they all have to be read in the same context: from the perspective of a 1st century Jew, NOT a 21st century American!

When you can see what Christ said the way His disciples did - WHO WERE ALL STILL UNDER THE LAW - then you'll begin to make sense of it all.

Go back to the Old Testament to understand the symbols and imagery Christ was expressing to them!

Happy Resurrection Day!

 

[Vic C.]

Keep to the subject, please. :yes

 

[Pizzaguy]

Keep to the subject, please. :yes

With some topics, that is VERY hard to do.

 

[Vic C.]

With some topics, that is VERY hard to do.

Dude, that applies to most topics.

I just didn't want to see Storm and Ali run with their debate. :yes

 

[Elijah674]

Keep to the subject, please. :yes

Yes, of course! (per/subject Vic;)) Rom. 10:18 AD 60 + Col. 1:23 AD 64 are the dates in my K.J. And yes, 'every creature which is under heaven'

But that was only the FIRST Eccl. 3:15's required time of Matt. 24:14!

--Elijah

 

[Sinthesis]

How does one interpret 'under heaven'? Be careful.

Act 2:5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Act 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Col 1:23 - If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;​

 

[Elijah674]

How does one interpret 'under heaven'? Be careful.

Act 2:5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Act 4:12 - Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Col 1:23 - If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
​

Are you telling God to be careful?

This chapter 24 of Matt. has a repeat history. God's WORD says so. The Eccl. verses. Just two endings!

If the new church did not understand this, how would they had acted when the Holy Spirit DOCUMENTED Matthew 24:14 as again taking place? See Romans 10:18

Paul & Crew (Christian Believers) would have been preaching false doctrines as to the Lord's Second coming. And a large, if not a huge portion would have left the new church. (as did happen to Adventist in 1844)

Matt. 24 is progressive in repeated history. Even with men's heart failing them for fear.
But the part most of today's Christians (even) miss, is Christ & Paul both being INSPIRED to state that this second time around "IT WILL BE CUT SHORT IN RIGHTEOUSNESS".What does that mean? We see in documented hindsight from 27-34 AD seven years (Daniel's 'midst of the week') up until Saul (Paul) was converted & was the one to take the Everlasting Gospel to the Gentile.

The True Fold of Christ's OWN had ALREADY REJECTED HIM! (Christ) Matthew 23:38. This was the ABOMINATION THAT MADE DESOLATE this ex/true/fold!! And it was aprox. 36 years until the ARMIES took Jerusalem. The four Gospels as most call them, give different TRUTH in this setting of Abomination of the True Fold & it destruction. The MIDNIGHT CRY is the JUDGEMENT HOUR to the VIRGIN CHURCH. (see 1 Peter 4:17 for both times..O.T. end and N.T. ending) and the slaughter of Ezekiel 9:1-6 is the Loud Cry of the professed of Israel of old. (the counterpart of the Revelation 17:1-5 ones & 666) There are two GOING OUT in Matthew 25:1-6. These are COMBINED times of warning in the last day prophecy.

Remember that Israel were going ALL OVER THE WORLD making converts at Christ's day here. (Note Matthew 23:15) God LOVED these ignorant ones & He gave them (not the rejected already judged fold) 36 more years for maturity to see if they would accept the Everlasting Gospel message from the short lived life of the 12, (except John) and the same exact Everlasting Gospel one, ftom Paul.

The above Matt. 24 is mis-understood in Daniel 9:25-27 by most, because of the two time periods being different by being 'cut short in RIGHTEOUSNESS' in the SECOND time around Truth, as Christ documented.

Then: There are those also who do not understand who Israel now were in Christ's day! They do not know what a CLOSED DOOR meant. Or an DESOLATE FOLD. They might re/read Revelation 3:9 or Revelation 17:1-5. Even Isaiah 5:3 is prophesied for the rejection of Christ by His own true Virgin FOLD! And the APOSTATE FOLD? It stayed put to do satans work, what was Saul doing in Acts 9:1?

If one would just toss all preconceived stuff, and just use Matthew 4:4, 2 Timothy 3:16 along with 1 Corinthians 14:32, and then BELIEVE the WORD OF CHRIST in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15's DOUBLE TWICE STATED TRUTH, then they could understand Matthew 24 +!
It is kind of 'interesting' with what most of the today ones might do with Peter's three time vision from the Lord? Most already knew what the vision meant even at the first vision, huh?

Anyhow: We see Matt. 24 about a done deal AGAIN for the last time! No more 36 years. The only thing of great importance still missing, is Christ's documentation of the Matthew 10:23 explanation of the finished product of the Matthew 25 Virgin parable to His disciples. (take note that Christ was already there 'speaking' at that first coming) This ENDING can all be understood as again now taking place from Matthew 10:5-38.
--Elijah

 

[Sam21]

By the end of the first century the gospel was preached to most of the known inhabited world,the great time of vengence for the Jews had taken place,temple worship was basicly gone, the Jews were being scattered,however Christ did not return.

 

[Elijah674]

By the end of the first century the gospel was preached to most of the known inhabited world,the great time of vengence for the Jews had taken place,temple worship was basicly gone, the Jews were being scattered,however Christ did not return.

If one Truely BELIEVES God's Word, this will tell you why Christ did not come the first time around.
Subject: --HISTORY REPEAT!--
Just a thought: Elijah here.
If one cannot follow God's quoted Truth of Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 as the Word of God, stated CLEARLY, and in a way that even most of Heb. 5's 'milkfed' ones can even get something from. I suggest that you shy away from Ph.D'ism, the arm of flesh & the Greek, Latin, & Heb., & stick with just one King James translation itself. The BOTTOM line is, is that ALL of these others ways of finding 'some' truth, are the real reasons that have caused the BIGGEST MESS OF DIS/UNITY that the GOSPEL ALONE prophesied of! Including preterism. See Rev. 17:5

And I realize that there are & were some who could not understand Paul's wording of inspiration & that it is scripture that also says that.... 'which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures unto their own destruction'. 2 Peter 3:14-17 in part. (and this is one such scripture!)

Forum: Lets start with Eccl. 3:14.
"I know that, WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH, IT SHALL BE FOREVER: NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT, NOR ANY THING TAKEN FROM IT: ..." (in part)
Actually it is just about a repeat even in Wording, as seen in Rev.'s closing verses!
The verses are a WARNING about adding to or removing any part of the Word of God! And the BOTTOM line is that ones name would be removed from the Book of Life. Now for the rest of the 14th verse. "... THAT MEN SHOULD FEAR BEFORE HIM."

For one to say that the Eccl. verses do not mean what they say, that one is doing just that!

Now look at the verse following verse 14. Verse 15 says.. "THAT WHICH HAS BEEN IS NOW; AND THAT WHICH IS TO BE HAS ALREADY BEEN; AND GOD REQUIRETH THAT WHICH IS PAST."GOD'S WORD says that it is so! All salvational Scripture has a repeated Truth! Even think of the re/crucifixion of Christ as in Heb. 6:6!

Take note: If it is not to be, God say that it will not be. Example: 'Sin will not arise a second time' Nah. 1:9. And we all know about the world flood not happening a second time? So, there are so very few times that history does not repeat, and that God does the easy thing for [us] by pointing out the lesser number. (by the way, Rev. is full of O.T. Sanctuary! see Ps. 77:13)

If anyone would BELIEVE THE *GODHEAD'S INSPIRED WORD (ALL OF IT! See 2 Tim. 3:16 & Matt. 4:4) they would find Few reasons for mixed up doctrinal folds.

But the bottom line is that even the Virgin Fold is going after the fate of Virgin Israel of old!! (same history) They are once again Christ/less. See Rev. 3:9 or Rev. 17:5! And the nasty repeat for them is VERIFIED in Eze. 9.

Try reading Rev. 12:17 S-L-O-W-L-E-Y! And in Christ's day, who do you think took over the 'DESOLATE' fold that Christ was put out of? It was Christ that stated that 'Your house (fold) is left unto you DESOLATE'. Matt. 23:38.

So, this is what will be the final fate of Spiritual Virgin Israel! (the 666 thing'y is for the world's testing) See 1 Peter 4:17 FOR WHO IS JUDGED FIRST.

Back to Chapter 1:9-10 of Eccl. Lets check to 'see' (if we can) if God made a mistake?
We do remember that we were told that 'IT SHALL BE FOR EVER and that NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT NOR ANYTHING TAKEN FROM IT.' (chapter 3:14-15)

"THE THING THAT HATH BEEN IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE; AND THAT WHICH IS DONE IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE DONE: AND THERE IS (NOTHING) *NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN. v.9
IS THERE [*ANY THING] WHERE OF IT MAY BE SAID, SEE, THIS IS NEW? [IT HATH BEEN ALREADY OF OLD TIME, WHICH WAS BEFORE US.]" v.10

Notice that after the GodHead's question, that Their Inspiration came quickly before 'ignorant' man could botch up the question!! But what does one hear today?? Should we do the 'foolish' (Matt. 25) thing and read & study the 'earthly' educated ones reams & reams of commentaries, with hardly any two alike?? (false fold/wise at least)

Lets just add another 'documented' fact here with these two verses.
In Gen. 41:32 the Lord gave Pharaoh a vision 'TWICE'. (remember now, that we see TWICE at least in the Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 that history is to be repeated) Also note that God has 'inspired' this thought ...

"And for that the dream was [doubled] unto Pharaoh [twice]; it is [because the thing is established by God], and God will shortly bring it to pass.

So bottom line: If you want to know Truth, find it in the past history for the furture history to be! All the way from the 666 test to where God 'tested' His own in the past before they were to enter the land of their Canaan. And the crucifixion of Christ a second time? See Heb. 6:6! And SURELY Christ in Matt. 24:14 projected this Truth in Eternity!

 

[Alabaster]

By the end of the first century the gospel was preached to most of the known inhabited world,the great time of vengence for the Jews had taken place,temple worship was basicly gone, the Jews were being scattered,however Christ did not return.

That's right. The word tells us that before Christ comes there will be no scattering but rather a massive gathering. Therefore He did not come in 70AD.

 

[taromina2003]

That's right. The word tells us that before Christ comes there will be no scattering but rather a massive gathering. Therefore He did not come in 70AD.

Alabaster, we are so in agreement with most subjects, it's just that darn rapture theory, but I really got to thinking about it and I think I need to really understand where you are coming from because I may be misinterpreting your stance.:waving

 

[Alabaster]

Alabaster, we are so in agreement with most subjects, it's just that darn rapture theory, but I really got to thinking about it and I think I need to really understand where you are coming from because I may be misinterpreting your stance.:waving

I really do appreciate that, taromina. Perhaps PM'ing would be a good choice !

 

[Stormcrow]

By the end of the first century the gospel was preached to most of the known inhabited world,the great time of vengence for the Jews had taken place,temple worship was basicly gone, the Jews were being scattered,however Christ did not return.

{30} "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth [lit. the land] will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30 (NASB)

{7} BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him ; and all the tribes of the earth [lit. the land] will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen. Revelation 1:7 (NASB)

​

Matthew was on the Mount of Olives when Jesus spoke these words. John got them directly from the risen, ascended and glorified Christ.

Now, either they didn't understand what Christ meant by these words, or we - living in 21st century America - don't.

Again, go back to the Old Testament and see if there are any analogs to the language Christ spoke to the writers of the New.

I bet you will find some.

 

[Alabaster]

No one has reported seeing Jesus yet. No one has written about anyone coming in the clouds, or any signs in the heavens. No one has written about the Antichrist performing signs and wonders.

Tell us---regarding Revelation 17:12 NLT...

The ten horns of the beast are ten kings who have not yet risen to power. They will be appointed to their kingdoms for one brief moment to reign with the beast.

What are the names of the ten kings referred to here who had to have come to reign between 67 and 70AD???

 

[Stormcrow]

No one has written about anyone coming in the clouds, or any signs in the heavens.

Perhaps you didn't see the message I left you on this thread:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/we-end-time-35067/index3.html#post535047

No one has written about the Antichrist performing signs and wonders.

Have you not considered that the words "signs and wonders" are as symbolic as the "heads and horns?"

If you were John and had never seen this:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/pre-trib-post-trib-two-tribs-35634/index3.html#post535356

how would you describe it???

The ten horns of the beast are ten kings who have not yet risen to power. They will be appointed to their kingdoms for one brief moment to reign with the beast.

What are the names of the ten kings referred to here who had to have come to reign between 67 and 70AD???

Decapolis

The Decapolis ("Ten Cities"; Greek: deka, ten; polis, city) was a group of ten cities on the eastern frontier of the Roman Empire in Judea and Syria. The ten cities were not an official league or political unit, but they were grouped together because of their language, culture, location, and political status. The Decapolis cities were centers of Greek and Roman culture in a region that was otherwise Semitic (Nabatean, Aramean, and Jewish). With the exception of Damascus, the "Region of the Decapolis" was located in modern-day Jordan, one of them located west of the Jordan River in Israel. Each city had a certain degree of autonomy and self-rule.

The Roman government wanted Roman culture to flourish in the farthest reaches of the empire, which at the time included eastern Palestine. So they encouraged the growth of these ten cities, allowing them some political autonomy within the protective sphere of Rome. Each city functioned as a polis or city-state, with jurisdiction over an area of the surrounding countryside. Each city also minted its own coins. Many coins from Decapolis cities identify their city as "autonomous," "free," "sovereign," or "sacred," terms that imply some sort of self-governing status.
​

Decapolis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While Pliny the Elder named more than 10 cities in this loose affiliation under Rome, they were all called by the name "Decapolis": 10 cities.

Ten minor city-states each owing their existence and giving their support to Rome.

What happened to them?

The term "Decapolis" fell out of use after the emperor Trajan added the province of Arabia to the Roman Empire in the second century AD. The new province was east of Palestine, so the Decapolis was no longer the Greco-Roman cultural front line.

Decapolis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​

Trajan was Caesar from 98 AD to 117 AD.

And another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

 

[Elijah674]

Perhaps you didn't see the message I left you on this thread:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/we-end-time-35067/index3.html#post535047

Have you not considered that the words "signs and wonders" are as symbolic as the "heads and horns?"

If you were John and had never seen this:

http://www.christianforums.net/f20/pre-trib-post-trib-two-tribs-35634/index3.html#post535356

how would you describe it???

Decapolis

The Decapolis ("Ten Cities"; Greek: deka, ten; polis, city) was a group of ten cities on the eastern frontier of the Roman Empire in Judea and Syria. The ten cities were not an official league or political unit, but they were grouped together because of their language, culture, location, and political status. The Decapolis cities were centers of Greek and Roman culture in a region that was otherwise Semitic (Nabatean, Aramean, and Jewish). With the exception of Damascus, the "Region of the Decapolis" was located in modern-day Jordan, one of them located west of the Jordan River in Israel. Each city had a certain degree of autonomy and self-rule.

The Roman government wanted Roman culture to flourish in the farthest reaches of the empire, which at the time included eastern Palestine. So they encouraged the growth of these ten cities, allowing them some political autonomy within the protective sphere of Rome. Each city functioned as a polis or city-state, with jurisdiction over an area of the surrounding countryside. Each city also minted its own coins. Many coins from Decapolis cities identify their city as "autonomous," "free," "sovereign," or "sacred," terms that imply some sort of self-governing status.
​

Decapolis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While Pliny the Elder named more than 10 cities in this loose affiliation under Rome, they were all called by the name "Decapolis": 10 cities.

Ten minor city-states each owing their existence and giving their support to Rome.

What happened to them?

The term "Decapolis" fell out of use after the emperor Trajan added the province of Arabia to the Roman Empire in the second century AD. The new province was east of Palestine, so the Decapolis was no longer the Greco-Roman cultural front line.

Decapolis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

​

Trajan was Caesar from 98 AD to 117 AD.

And another piece of the puzzle falls into place.

Just more winds from Jer. 17:5! But we still have 'some' hope for you!;) That is the purpose of the Matt. 24:21 verse God LOVES ALL mankind & He has NO OTHER WAY to reach them! His Isa. 5:4 type of Love just could not move these ones. So we have the other way of doing so, as seen in Jude 1:24.
That of.. 'For THEN shall be Great Triblation, such as was NOT SEEN since the BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, TO THIS TIME, [NO, EVER SHALL BE].'

And we are into this time period, and we have not seen anything yet! Even the verse 24-27 will find which side the Saved + the Lost are on. Two spirits are to be seen in this LATTER TIME, Phil. 4:13 + 2 Cor. 12:9 Holy Spirit & the total infiltrating of satan into his eternally lost ones as the Striving of the Holy Spirit is totally removed from then. It is then, that you 'see' the verses following verse 21!

And: We will as the Saved, SEE a real Live Person in our Savior come as He left earth, in a bodily form again! And so will all preterist die at this first death time, and remain so until the 1000 years are finished, and then they will be resurected to die their second death, along with all of the other Christ rejected ones who love believing a lie.

--Elijah