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Was The Pastor Wrong

Lewis

Lewis

Member
About 15 or 14 years ago here in Philadelphia, a pastor had a son on drugs, the pastor was up in age, I forgot how old. But anyway the son would rob is dads house and beat his dad up, if he did not give him money. He did it to many times. And one day he hit is dad again over money and the pastor shot him, and killied him. Was the pastor wrong ?
 
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Or three, or four...
The son was wrong, the pastor was wrong and both were wrong for allowing it to go for so long. There's no right in any of it.
Not being wrong doesn't always mean being right.
 
Well PotLuck I he was beating on his dad. Now in Biblical time Old and New Teatament times, he would have been put to death. And it was lawful for the father to do so, except maybe in Rome. I just don't know what to say about what the pastor did. But the cops did not charge him.
 
Did the pastor shoot his son in self-defense, out of fear for his own life? Then he did nothing wrong, morally or legally. Did he shoot his son out of anger? Then he was wrong.
 
Lewis W said:
Well PotLuck I he was beating on his dad.
Click to expand...

I understand that.
And since the cops didn't press charges I'd assume they had been made aware of the problems in the past. Yet, decisions were made to do or not to do something which led to a dead son by both the son and the pastor. Regardless of who is found to be at fault, regardless if the pastor is innocent by way of self-defense the result is still the same, the son is dead.

Sometimes we allow wrong things to go on by someone we love because we don't want to hurt them. Sometimes doing the right thing is extremely painful at the time so we don't do it. It doesn't matter if the pastor is viewed as guiltless by the law. "Why did I allow this to go on for so long?", "Why didn't I do something when I had the chance?", "What could I have done that this would never have occured?" These questions may haunt the pastor for the rest of his life. The son is dead and the pastor is eaten by self-guilt.
So the pastor turns to Christ for forgiveness. And rightly so. For in Him lies the pastor's freedom. Yes, the law says he's blameless but the pastor's spirit doesn't think so and asks for Christ's compassion.
Is the pastor wrong?
That's between him and the Lord isn't it?
 
"Why did I allow this to go on for so long?", "Why didn't I do something when I had the chance?",

end of quote:

I think you said it well, potluck. I don't think he should continue being a pastor. The Bible says that the leaders should be spotless.

Unfortunately, many churches don't look at the leaders' private lives closely. It is sad situation.
 
Lewis W said:
About 15 or 14 years ago here in Philadelphia, a pastor had a son on drugs, the pastor was up in age, I forgot how old. But anyway the son would rob is dads house and beat his dad up, if he did not give him money. He did it to many times. And one day he hit is dad again over money and the pastor shot him, and killied him. Was the pastor wrong ?
Click to expand...

I don't think I would take a continual beating on a weekly basis regardless of who I was or who they were. God gave us a brain and the ability to protect ourselves and family from the likes of drug addicts like that. Indeed, in the Old Testament, unruly sons were taken out and stoned to death.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (KJV) If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Was the man indicted on any murder charge or was it considered self defense? This story can be told countless times about an abusive husband who beats his wife almost daily until she plots to kill him. Depending on the circumstances, she can be charged with 1st degree murder or at the least, manslaughter. Some have walked away with a self-defense plea. Much depends on the circumstance and if the victim had ever went to the hospital and/or had photos of their beatings or not. I know of such a case.

OK...I just read where he wasn't charged. Good.
 
"Now in Biblical time Old and New Teatament times, he would have been put to death. And it was lawful for the father to do so"

I was thinking of the same thing. I once knew a boy who only caused heartache and trouble to everyone around him. He was a criminal but never sent to juvenille hall. He almost made his mother go insane and his father lose his job due to all his antics. He was from a good home with loving parents who taught him right from wrong but he was just bent on doing things his own way and no one could do anything with him. He was a disruption to the school and stole from every store and every person's house he entered. He was just bad to the bone and never once repented. I sometimes felt the OT law for this teen would have made life better for everyone because all he did was cause pain, destruction and terror to everyone.
 
All of you guy's comments have merit. And yes PotLuck he was doing this to his dad a lot. He had been put out of the house, but on that last day of his life, he had broke into the house. And if I can remember correctly suprised his dad at the top of the stairs. Now according to Scripture these types of sons are to be dealt with harshly. Jesus said that He came to fulfill the Law not remove it. And yes that pastor is hurting, if he is still living about killing his own son. But like D46 said you are not supposed to put up with that kind of garbage. Now I do remember that he was not allowed in the house, because of what he had become, so he broke in. Man that was a bad situation. My pop who is still living would not have took that mess at all. And when I was on hard drugs, he did not take anything off of me. I don't to this day talk back to my pop. He knocked me to the ground in front of my first wife, when I was 27 years old. And even though he is 71, I still respect him, and he will still get on my case, and he does when I need it. But he told me when I was a teenager if I ever hit him he would kill me. And a lot of the old school raised parents, mean it. Parents today let their kids get away with to much. Ever see the unruly kids with the parents in the super market, cussing the parent out. This is crazy, I remember my mom busting me in the head when I was grown with one of those hard plastic ash trays, for disrespecting her. Sorry I got a little off topic, but I could not help it.
 
About 15 or 14 years ago here in Philadelphia, a pastor had a son on drugs, the pastor was up in age, I forgot how old. But anyway the son would rob is dads house and beat his dad up, if he did not give him money. He did it to many times. And one day he hit is dad again over money and the pastor shot him, and killied him. Was the pastor wrong ?
Click to expand...

If it was in self defense than that is OK with me.

He should have notified the cops though.

Of course then again Moses would have stoned the kid pretty quickly so what do I know?????
 
Self defense, good.
For not ogign to authorities after the first or 2nd attack, It is the pastors fault.
Refusing to stop physical harm to yourself (with out breaking any other rule in the bible) seems to be against the teachings that you should not harm your own body.
 
Soma the poor man did not have time to call the cops, man. The next thing the old man knew he was there. And at his age being fast is not your strong suit.
 
"For not ogign to authorities after the first or 2nd attack, It is the pastors fault. "

How can we say that. This was his son and he was a pastor! I think most parents would not call the police on their son the first time their son did something wrong. Parents are full of pity and hope for their children. Pastors teach about forgiveness. I am sure this father/pastor wanted to forgive his son and pray for him and believe his son would change. He gave his son several chances. His son should have been more grateful to his father for this. Likewise, why does God give us so many chances? I is like this father, it comes from compassion and hope for repentence. But like this father, one day God will have enough and declare the end of it all. Sometimes enough just becomes enough.
 
paisley said:
"For not ogign to authorities after the first or 2nd attack, It is the pastors fault. "

How can we say that. This was his son and he was a pastor! I think most parents would not call the police on their son the first time their son did something wrong. Parents are full of pity and hope for their children. Pastors teach about forgiveness. I am sure this father/pastor wanted to forgive his son and pray for him and believe his son would change. He gave his son several chances. His son should have been more grateful to his father for this. Likewise, why does God give us so many chances? I is like this father, it comes from compassion and hope for repentence. But like this father, one day God will have enough and declare the end of it all. Sometimes enough just becomes enough.
Click to expand...
I think you gave the best answer.
 
paisley said:
"For not ogign to authorities after the first or 2nd attack, It is the pastors fault. "

How can we say that. This was his son and he was a pastor! I think most parents would not call the police on their son the first time their son did something wrong. Parents are full of pity and hope for their children. Pastors teach about forgiveness. I am sure this father/pastor wanted to forgive his son and pray for him and believe his son would change. He gave his son several chances. His son should have been more grateful to his father for this. Likewise, why does God give us so many chances? I is like this father, it comes from compassion and hope for repentence. But like this father, one day God will have enough and declare the end of it all. Sometimes enough just becomes enough.
Click to expand...

I have heard many on this forum say that, It is a parents duty to teach their children right from wrong, and thats why its a parents duty to raise their children in the grace of god.

Letting his child get away with such atrocious un-christian behavior goes against that completly. Yes, the son should have been more grateful, but the father should looked for a way to help his son.
 
That don't mean he did not raise his son right. You can have kids raised up in the church, and then they fall away, I've seen it to many times to count. A lot of them return when they get older, or when they have been beat up enough by the world. And some die before they can get back. I have backslide from the church a number of times. But God always had his hand on me, even when I didn't think so.
 
paisley said:
"For not ogign to authorities after the first or 2nd attack, It is the pastors fault. "

How can we say that. This was his son and he was a pastor! I think most parents would not call the police on their son the first time their son did something wrong. Parents are full of pity and hope for their children. Pastors teach about forgiveness. I am sure this father/pastor wanted to forgive his son and pray for him and believe his son would change. He gave his son several chances. His son should have been more grateful to his father for this. Likewise, why does God give us so many chances? I is like this father, it comes from compassion and hope for repentence. But like this father, one day God will have enough and declare the end of it all. Sometimes enough just becomes enough.
Click to expand...

I have heard many on this forum say that, It is a parents duty to teach their children right from wrong, and thats why its a parents duty to raise their children in the grace of god.

Letting his child get away with such atrocious un-christian behavior goes against that completly. Yes, the son should have been more grateful, but the father should looked for a way to help his son.
 
"I have heard many on this forum say that, It is a parents duty to teach their children right from wrong, and thats why its a parents duty to raise their children in the grace of god.

Letting his child get away with such atrocious un-christian behavior goes against that completly. Yes, the son should have been more grateful, but the father should looked for a way to help his son."


The distinction here is this was not a little kid where you could give "time-out", a few swats on the behind, etc. This was a teen/young man who was old and big enough to beat up his father. Perhaps this father had already spent years teaching his son right from wrong but his son chose to reject all that teaching. At some point kids grow up and make decisions for themselves just as we do with God. God has already taught us right from wrong and at some point we are either going to accept or reject His teachings. If we reject them, does that make Him a bad Father? Does that mean He is just turning a blind eye to our sin? Does it mean we can blame Him for our sinful choices? At some point, we have to take responsibility for our own actions. I am sure this father was looking for ways to help his son and I bet he was praying every night, but sometimes kids just decide to go their own way despite all the good teaching they have had. It is called foolishness and rebellion. It can exist even in good homes.
 
Lewis W said:
That don't mean he did not raise his son right. You can have kids raised up in the church, and then they fall away, I've seen it to many times to count. A lot of them return when they get older, or when they have been beat up enough by the world. And some die before they can get back. I have backslide from the church a number of times. But God always had his hand on me, even when I didn't think so.
Click to expand...
That is the same thing that I was saying. And he was a grown adult if I remember right he was in his 30's, I know it was pass the 20's.
 
Lewis W said:
About 15 or 14 years ago here in Philadelphia, a pastor had a son on drugs, the pastor was up in age, I forgot how old. But anyway the son would rob is dads house and beat his dad up, if he did not give him money. He did it to many times. And one day he hit is dad again over money and the pastor shot him, and killied him. Was the pastor wrong ?
Click to expand...

Yes, he was "wrong."

But merciful hearts can comprehend why it got the best of him.

Thats why Jesus died for us.
 
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