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Were These Homicides Justified ?

Lewis

Member
Did he do the right things for these unborn children ?

Abortion doctor's killer has no regrets
Action necessary, Hill writes in letter

Herald.com/August 22, 2003
By Phil Long

And please do visit this site
Anti-Abortion Extremist
http://www.rickross.com/groups/abortion.html

Paul Hill, who is to be executed in two weeks for the shotgun slayings of an abortion doctor and his bodyguard in Pensacola, says he's at peace with himself and would probably kill again.

Hill, a one-time Presbyterian minister, has said God led him to shoot Dr. John Britton, 69, and his driver, James Barrett, 74, as they arrived at a Pensacola abortion clinic in July 1994.

''If I were put in similar circumstances, I believe I would act similarly,'' Hill said in a letter to The Herald from his Florida State Prison cell.

Death penalty opponents are urging Gov. Jeb Bush to stop the Sept. 3 execution, warning that a state-sanctioned death could turn Hill into a martyr for extremists in the antiabortion movement.

On Monday, three death-threat letters -- accompanied by bullets -- were received in the mail by Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist and two top state prison officials.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement is investigating. The U.S. Postal Inspection Service announced Wednesday that it, too, will launch an investigation. The FBI said it is monitoring the investigations.

Friends who were visiting Hill this week said prison officials removed all the Death Row inmate's possessions from his cell immediately after the threatening letters were received. Among the items taken: theological treatises, Bibles, friends' and attorneys' phone numbers, writing instruments and Hill's work papers, including a book he's writing, Mix My Blood.

''They cleaned him out,'' said Anthony Leake, an activist from Odessa, Mo., who has been friends with Hill for a decade and has visited him daily for the past three weeks.

A spokesman for the Department of Corrections said he could not say anything about the case, citing the criminal investigations. He said Hill's materials were returned to him.

Hill, 49, belonged to a small sect within the antiabortion movement that sanctioned the use of ''justifiable homicide'' to stop abortion doctors. Most mainstream antiabortion organizations distanced themselves from him.
Cult Status

But Hill, who would become the first killer of an abortion doctor to be executed in the nation, has achieved near-cult status among extreme opponents to abortion. One publication, The Abortion Abolitionist, compares him to patriots such as anti-slavery killer John Brown, and suggests that there will be divine retribution for Hill's death.

This month, Hill agreed to answer questions in writing from The Herald. Asked if he considered himself a martyr, Hill said he hoped to be remembered "as someone who willingly died to save unborn children.''

''I do not regret using the means necessary for defending the unborn,'' he wrote. "My conscience affirms me for having taken this defensive action.''

Asked about the commonly held belief that the Bible never justifies killing, Hill disagreed.

''In Genesis 14, God blessed Abraham after he used lethal force to rescue his nephew, Lot,'' he wrote. "The principle of justifiable homicide has been, and will remain, in effect throughout human history.''

He added that "there is no question that my actions caused many abortion providers to consider quitting their practice.''
Another Shooting

The 1994 shooting came 14 months after another antiabortion activist, Michael Griffin, killed another Pensacola abortion doctor, David Gunn. Hill said in the letter to The Herald that, at the time of the Griffin case, he was disappointed with the anemic response from pro-life activists, who denounced Griffin's use of violence. So he is not surprised now that ''only a relatively small number of people'' have supported his actions.

But, he added: 'I believe that as time goes on and more people recognize the duty to use the individual and corporate means necessary to defend the unborn, that the opposition to abortion will become more intense. To misquote John Paul Jones, `We have not yet begun to fight.' ''

Hill said he still corresponds with his wife and children, who have since moved from Pensacola.

Has he anything to say to the families of Britton or Barrett, the people he killed?

''No,'' Hill wrote.

Britton's stepdaughter, Catherine Britton Fairbanks, is among those asking Bush for clemency for Hill.

''Violence begets violence,'' Fairbanks told The Pensacola News Journal in a story Wednesday. "There is no murder of any kind that justifies killing the murderer. It's not going to bring the person back.

''If they kill Paul Hill, it's going to provoke all kinds of things,'' Fairbanks said. "I think that network of people -- that alliance -- is really strong still.''

Hill told The Herald he is ready to die.

''Yes, the Lord is giving me a generous measure of peace and joy as I anticipate my departure,'' he wrote. "My confidence is not in anything that I have done, but in the righteous life and the substitutionary death of Christ on the cross.''

http://www.rickross.com/reference/a-abo ... ion22.html

And please do visit this site
Anti-Abortion Extremist
http://www.rickross.com/groups/abortion.html
 
There was nothing defensive about his actions at all!

He knowingly and willingly killed one of God's creation, whom God loved, in cold blood.

This was premeditated.

Even though Hill was unable to show mercy to whom he killed, I do not believe that Hill should be executed for his crimes.
 
aLoneVoice said:
There was nothing defensive about his actions at all!

He knowingly and willingly killed one of God's creation, whom God loved, in cold blood.

This was premeditated.

Even though Hill was unable to show mercy to whom he killed, I do not believe that Hill should be executed for his crimes.
The abortion doctor killed the defenseless unborn, and the law backs him up. What is your position on following the government's law allowing the murder of unborn children?
 
When the governments law goes against God's laws we are to resist. Acts 5:28 Peter and the apostles said we ought to obey God rather than man.
 
Solo said:
The abortion doctor killed the defenseless unborn, and the law backs him up. What is your position on following the government's law allowing the murder of unborn children?
It is not murder if it is legal. You should change it to "killing" or something that is not self-contradictory.
 
Quath said:
It is not murder if it is legal. You should change it to "killing" or something that is not self-contradictory.
It is murder according to God's law. You, of course, can call it what you want since you do not believe in God. All of the foolishness of man will come out in the end, and you too will know the truth.
 
I think the act of interposition is needed' in some things. Secular law is not doing the job' so someone has to step in' and get tthe job done. These babies cannot speak for themselves. And the law allows babies to be killed' the law has no right to do this. And they will pay for it. The secular laws is a mixed up bunch of mess. It is ok to kill an innocent baby' but we will kill you if you kill a world renown sinning adult. The basic laws that the courts have today come from the Bible' without the Bible their would be no laws. But man has taken and twisted God's laws' to his liken. And this double standard imperfect court will tell you to put your hand on the Bible and swear to tell the whole truth' and nothing but the truth' so help me God. And then they turn around and allow babies to be killed. I don't even know why the courts even use a Bible. Because they don't pay attention to it.
 
Solo said:
It is murder according to God's law. You, of course, can call it what you want since you do not believe in God. All of the foolishness of man will come out in the end, and you too will know the truth.
So which verse in the Bible forbids the killing of the unborn?

Lewis W said:
These babies cannot speak for themselves. And the law allows babies to be killed' the law has no right to do this. And they will pay for it. The secular laws is a mixed up bunch of mess. It is ok to kill an innocent baby' but we will kill you if you kill a world renown sinning adult.
The differenve is that not all people agree with you that a fetus is equivalent to a born human. Many people see human development in shades of grey. On an emotional level, we understand this as well. A miscarriage is a horrible thing to go through, but it does not carry the pain of seeing your 2 year old baby die.
 
The differenve is that not all people agree with you that a fetus is equivalent to a born human

Well these people are fools. I will go even further Quath' they are fools of the highest order.
 
Lewis W said:
Well these people are fools. I will go even further Quath' they are fools of the highest order.
I am sure they feel likewise, but what does that accomplish? I think you would do better to make a logical case against it instead of just assert your rightness and claim any who disagree to be fools.
 
Quath said:
I am sure they feel likewise, but what does that accomplish? I think you would do better to make a logical case against it instead of just assert your rightness and claim any who disagree to be fools.
I'll say it again' they are fools of the highest order. They don't come no higher.
 
Quath said:
Solo said:
It is murder according to God's law. You, of course, can call it what you want since you do not believe in God. All of the foolishness of man will come out in the end, and you too will know the truth.
So which verse in the Bible forbids the killing of the unborn?
Jesus spoke,
  • "Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" Matthew 5:21
Is killing the unborn the same as killing those that are born? Yes.
  • 22 "If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. 23 "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. Exodus 21:22-25
Quath said:
The differenve is that not all people agree with you that a fetus is equivalent to a born human. Many people see human development in shades of grey. On an emotional level, we understand this as well. A miscarriage is a horrible thing to go through, but it does not carry the pain of seeing your 2 year old baby die.
Refuted by Scripture Exodus 21:22-25 above.
 
Hill, a one-time Presbyterian minister, has said God led him to shoot Dr. John Britton, 69, and his driver, James Barrett, 74, as they arrived at a Pensacola abortion clinic in July 1994.



It's hard to justify killing the driver. :-?

I have mixed feeling about the "Dr."

Defense of the unborn is admirable. Crushing his hands would have put him out of business.

Just a thought.
 
Well who's to know. I mean God could have directed him to do it. And as for the driver' he was in on it' too. I am the Lord I change not. The Bible says. God is still a God of justice' and He is still a God of wrath.
 
Solo said:
Jesus spoke,
"Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" Matthew 5:21.
Therw must be exceptions to this or else Jesus and God will be in conflict like

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13)

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10)

Now is killing allowed sometimes? If so, then your passage does not mean what you said it means.

22 "If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. 23 "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. Exodus 21:22-25
This was addressed in another topic that coems from Why Abortion is Biblical:

This is a very illuminating passage. In it we find a woman losing her child by being stuck by men who are fighting. Rather than it being a capital offense, however, it is relegated to a civil matter, with the father-to-be taking the participants to court for a settlement. But, as we read on, if the woman is killed, a "life for a life," then the men who killed her shall be killed. Some have claimed that the life for a life part is talking about the baby. But from reading the context we can see this is not true. It also states a tooth for a tooth and a burn for a burn. Babies don't have teeth when they are born, and it is highly unlikely a baby will be burned during birth. It is pretty clear that this part refers to the mother. Thus we can see that if the baby is lost, it does not require a death sentence -- it is not considered murder. But if the woman is lost, it is considered murder and is punished by death.

christian_soldier said:
Defense of the unborn is admirable. Crushing his hands would have put him out of business.
That gives me such chills. We have a legal system to keep vigalantes from being judge, jury and executioner.

Lewis W said:
Well who's to know. I mean God could have directed him to do it. And as for the driver' he was in on it' too. I am the Lord I change not. The Bible says. God is still a God of justice' and He is still a God of wrath.
This is even scarier. I would no one would excuse a murder based upon someone talking to a deity that no one can get verification from. It sounds like the simpliest way to reconcile this is to kill him. If God decided he is innocent, he can return him to life.
 
Quath,
For four years you have been on this forum, and you remain a skeptic. Your questions have been answered many, many times, and you remain in constant conflagration over Christianity. Your position as a free-thinker is more important to you than knowing the truth of Almighty God, and your fear of not knowing him is nill.

I pray that you would be humbled in order to know God so that you could have eternal life, because your pride is keeping you away. May God perform whatever He must to show you your error, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen
Michael
 
Solo said:
Quath,

I pray that you would be humbled in order to know God so that you could have eternal life, because your pride is keeping you away. May God perform whatever He must to show you your error, in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen
Michael

:angel: Amen :angel:
 
Solo said:
The abortion doctor killed the defenseless unborn, and the law backs him up. What is your position on following the government's law allowing the murder of unborn children?

Solo - you should know my position from other threads. However, I believe that we are to follow the Word of God. When the government violates the law of God - then we must follow God and not man.

However, the Word is clear on killing - therefore, Hill is not justified, and I seriously doubt that God "ordered" him to kill that Dr.
 
aLoneVoice said:
However, the Word is clear on killing - therefore, Hill is not justified

I have to reluctantly agree.

I'm not sure of the full circumstances, I assume the abortionist and driver were gunned down somewhere other than in the midst of murdering a womb child. That's pure vigilantism, rather than immediate defense.

A scenario:
A baby is in a stroller. Someone is just about to plunge scissors into the base of its skull and suck its brain through a tube.

What do you do about it?
 
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