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Bible Study What do you believe?

B

Biblereader

Member
Do you believe man has free will to choose or reject Jesus,
or do you believe God makes it impossible for a person to accept
Jesus, in other words, as some hyper calvinists say, God sends people
to hell.

I believe Jesus is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentence.
I believe that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, as is stated in John 3:16.

I also believe that we will be held accountable for every idle word we speak.
 
I believe that no one comes to God on their own, but does have the "will" to reject Him after He is revealed to them. In other words, I don't believe grace is irresistible. I have seen at least three people I know who were strongly being "called out" but rejected the calling.

I do believe that God will eventually give someone up to their uncleanness, but I do pray that God doesn't give up on them (the ones I know) nonetheless. :)
 
I think the idea of Double predestination(God predestines some for hell) is a very slippery idea. To believe in the predestination of some to hell means that some really cannot help their sinful condition because they would be fighting God's predestination to do so. That just doesn't seem like God, Now does it?
 
vic C. said:
I believe that no one comes to God on their own, but does have the "will" to reject Him after He is revealed to them. In other words, I don't believe grace is irresistible. I have seen at least three people I know who were strongly being "called out" but rejected the calling.

I do believe that God will eventually give someone up to their uncleanness, but I do pray that God doesn't give up on them (the ones I know) nonetheless. :)
Click to expand...


I agree, grace is not irresistable. This explains the parable of the sower:
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12: Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13: They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14: And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15: But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
 
vic C. said:
I believe that no one comes to God on their own, but do has the "will" to reject Him after He is revealed to them.
Click to expand...

That also explains this verse:

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
 
Blazin Bones said:
I think the idea of Double predestination(God predestines some for hell) is a very slippery idea. To believe in the predestination of some to hell means that some really cannot help their sinful condition because they would be fighting God's predestination to do so. That just doesn't seem like God, Now does it?
Click to expand...

What bothers me most about some people believing that God forces some people into hell, is, that,
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21: But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

People are sinners saved by grace, by hearing the Word of God, and by sticking with it, and by
sometimes, a lot of changes in their mind and heart.
There would be absolutely no reason for a person to suffer condemnation from God, if He had not given them a freedom to choose or reject.
 
God is completely just, and fair. He is not a person who doesn't give people chances, like Calvinists believe.
I mean, all throughout the Holy Bible, God makes it plain that we have responsibilities, we have choices to make, whether we're lost or saved.

Like this verse, in the Old Testament: And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

He's telling people who are lost, to CHOOSE this day, whom ye will serve.
I can not fathom the reason for a person to choose to believe that a loving, holy, and just God damns people to hell, without giving them any chance at all to choose salvation through Jesus Christ.
Calvinism is of the devil, in my opinion. It is an idea, taken by men, to such an extreme, that it totally rejects God's love.
 
27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29: My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30: I and my Father are one. (John 10.27-30)

But, that brings this up, which I believe: no man is able to pluck the saved out of God's hand.
We are secure in our salvation.
We might, and will, sin, after salvation, but we REPENT, and change our course.
We stay on the straight and narrow.
 
If I may ask a question? Do you feel that any person can know if another is truly saved or not?

If yes, then how do you determine this?

If no, why do you judge so many to be not truly saved or to have it wrong?
 
A quote from Biblereader -

27: My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29: My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30: I and my Father are one. (John 10.27-30)

But, that brings this up, which I believe: no man is able to pluck the saved out of God's hand.
We are secure in our salvation.
We might, and will, sin, after salvation, but we REPENT, and change our course.
We stay on the straight and narrow.
Click to expand...

I think that you may have misapplied some context here!

As I see things, Jesus offers some clarity on His statement above, here...

John 17:12 KJV
(12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

And, also, here...

John 18:8-9 KJV
(8) Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
(9) That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

Clearly, Jesus was not talking about ALL Christians in these passages, but the apostles only.

John 10:16 KJV
(16) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

And, as I see it, the context applies only to the physical safety of the apostles themselves, while Christ was still walking on this earth. Because, once Christ had been crucified, all manner of harm, torture, and death were suffered by these chosen ones.

Biblereader, I repeat, as I see it, the passage which you reference above is only talking about one of the many folds of sheep which make up God's flock, His apostles.

May God bless us all,

Pogo
 
Biblereader said:
Do you believe man has free will to choose or reject Jesus,
or do you believe God makes it impossible for a person to accept
Jesus, in other words, as some hyper calvinists say, God sends people
to hell.

I believe Jesus is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentence.
I believe that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, as is stated in John 3:16.

I also believe that we will be held accountable for every idle word we speak.
Click to expand...


I understand your question but its more important to know what the Bible has to say on this topic, rather than what people believe. Very often what many of us do is that we take one or two scriptures that seem to support what we believe and use that as proof, rather than study all the scriptures in the Bible (Old and New Testament) on a subject to get at the truth.

What I have found is that no one can come to Jesus/God unless God first calls that person. The person who has been called has the ability to reject that calling, but the question is would they want to do so? From my own experience no they would not, simply because the will and desire is from God and not ones own nature.

The Bible also show us that only a selected few from the time of Adam to just before the return of Jesus are being called……the rest will be called later. The rest includes those who are alive when Jesus returns and those who are dead.

This is not to say that every single person will be saved; the Bible does not say every human being will be saved. It would seem as if the lesions that were learnt at the beginning of the millennium was lost at the end of the millennium by a few. So during the millennium, a time of world wide peace and prosperity at the latter part of the millennium, Satan will be release from his bottomless pit and will once again set out to do his dirty deeds. He will be successful in deceiving some and they will be moved to attack the Nation of Israel/House of Israel. But as the Bible says, “Fire will come down from heaven/sky and devour them.

Then after the millennium, the rest of the dead will be raised and called; this period of time the Bible does not tell us how long it will last. But scripture tells us that at the end of that period, this is where God will separate the proverbial sheep and the goat.
 
Christ choses his.

Paul called him self a bondservent, and even a prisoner of Christ, insinuating that he couldn't quit even if he wanted too.

I feel the same.
 
dosadifan said:
If I may ask a question? Do you feel that any person can know if another is truly saved or not?

If yes, then how do you determine this?

If no, why do you judge so many to be not truly saved or to have it wrong?
Click to expand...


I don't think we know who has been saved or not. We are not to judge anyone.

Luke 6:37
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
 
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