What does Jesus do all day?

[Soma-Sight]

Once again the surfacing of the whole topic of Jesus as Archangel comes about......

It makes me laugh to see people get SO MAD at people proclaiming that Christ could be an Archangel!

What does Jesus DO all day?

I dont get it. Why could Jesus NOT change His form and be ANYTHING He wants.

I think the sad fact of the matter lies in the fact that people have IDOLS in there minds because they cannot think outside the box of modern Christian paradigms.....

Call me a heretic. Call me stoned. Call me a fool. But I get the sinking feeling that Christ is WAY BIGGER than a humble Nazarene with a mullet.

http://myspace-276.vo.llnwd.net/00376/6 ... 0276_s.gif

[post edited by Admin for poor content]

 

[thessalonian]

makes me laugh to see people get SO MAD at people proclaiming that Christ could be an Archangel!

Perhaps you could tell me who on that thread was angry? God is spirit. Angels are spirit so it would not be a change of form but a limiting of spirit. I haven't thought alot about this question and it is an interesting one but I would think that in limiting his spirit God would not be God.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Perhaps you could tell me who on that thread was angry? God is spirit. Angels are spirit so it would not be a change of form but a limiting of spirit. I haven't thought alot about this question and it is an interesting one but I would think that in limiting his spirit God would not be God.

Well like I said, this is a reincarnation of an old topic.

Back in the old days :wink: many Trinitarians called SDA's heretics for this very reason.

SDA's believe that Jesus is Michael.

 

[ChristineES]

No one is angry, I'm not. It is ludicrous to think that Jesus is Michael. On the other thread I posted all the scripture that have Michael mentioned. It calls Michael a prince, an Archangel and Michael saying to Lucifer 'The Lord rebuke you". That, in itself, proves that Jesus could not possibly be Michael. It is even pointless to even argue it any longer.

 

[thessalonian]

Perhaps you could tell me who on that thread was angry? God is spirit. Angels are spirit so it would not be a change of form but a limiting of spirit. I haven't thought alot about this question and it is an interesting one but I would think that in limiting his spirit God would not be God.

Well like I said, this is a reincarnation of an old topic.

Back in the old days :wink: many Trinitarians called SDA's heretics for this very reason.

SDA's believe that Jesus is Michael.

Actually most SDA's are trinitarian. I think your getting them mixed up with JW's. Look the fact of the matter is that those who do not know the true nature of God do not know God. One who describes my friend the butcher James as 3 ft. tall, all hairy, and makes chimpanzee sounds does not know James who is my friend the butcher. We can't make anything up about who God is or come up with our own definition of God and say this is the true God. It seems to me you do not believe we can know who God is. I find that problematic as Jesus tells us that "those who worship God shall worship in spriit and in truth". The truth must be knowable. I know it makes you feel friendly to not make any hard stands about these things but truth matters and it is knowable. Truth is what sets us free. Now will you identify who was angry in the other thread. I must have missed something.

 

[Free]

It makes me laugh to see people get SO MAD at people proclaiming that Christ could be an Archangel!

I am not sure if anyone is getting mad but it is not a laughing matter. Who Christ is is essential to Christianity. Calling him an archangel implies that he is a created being. Let me ask you this soma: since all of heaven would know that Jesus is God, what good would it do or what purpose would it serve for him to take on the form of an archangel?

 

[Vic C.]

Actually most SDA's are trinitarian.

Thess, I was about to mention that, when I noticed your post. Yes, they speak very kindly of the Godhead and it's triune nature. 8-)

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

SDA's believe that Jesus is Michael.

That is a common misconception about SDA beliefs.

8. We received a letter stating that a member of an SDA Church in the West Midlands told a Christian that Jesus is Michael the archangel. Is this an official teaching of the SDA Church today, or is it something that they once taught and have now abandoned, with just a few still hanging on to it?
I have to admit that this isn’t something that I have heard much about. However, having looked it up I can tell you that apparently the Church discussed this issue some forty years ago and concluded that the precise identification of Michael was not important enough to dwell on at length. (Questions on Doctrine, p.71). The reasoning behind identifying Jesus with Michael probably comes from 1 Thessalonians 4:16 where the voice of the archangel awakens the dead, and John 5:28 where Jesus said that He would arouse the dead.
The name Michael is always used in an apocalyptic context and I don’t think that identifying Michael with Christ in any way implies that the Lord Jesus is less than fully divine. He is co-eternal and co-equal with the Father. Seven times He referred to Himself in the fourth gospel as I AM, a clear indication that He is God and not just an angel. The very expression "arch-angel" implies someone over or above the angels.

(Source: http://www.adventistinfo.org.uk/about/fundamen.php)

The misunderstanding is also discussed in The Kingdom Of The Cults by Walter Martin, General Editor: Ravi Zacharias.

 

[Vic C.]

Oh, they (most) certainly teach that Michael and Jesus are the same. It was first proclaimed by Ellen G. White and Doug Batchelor teaches this as well as many others.

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=525

http://www.members.tripod.com/crossbear ... /id255.htm

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... +archangel

 

[Soma-Sight]

Was not Jesus born from the womb and a created Being????

How is this being "Eternal"? He aged from childhood to adulthood and died just like any other mortal (according to scriptures that is).

But that is besides the point.

My point here is the lunacy of believing that the supposed most powerful Being in the universe (Jesus) according to Christians has existed in some kind of human humble form for all eternity?

Why COULDNT Christ turn into an Angel?

Especially Chief of Angels!

 

[thessalonian]

Was not Jesus born from the womb and a created Being????

Yep, Jesus the man was. However Jesus, God was eternally God. God became man in the incarnation. The spirit of Jesus was eternal. That spirit was united with human flesh.

How is this being "Eternal"? He aged from childhood to adulthood and died just like any other mortal (according to scriptures that is).

Your not grasping the point.

But that is besides the point.

My point here is the lunacy of believing that the supposed most powerful Being in the universe (Jesus) according to Christians has existed in some kind of human humble form for all eternity?

Lunacy? First of all we do not believe that Jesus existed in human form for all eternity. You know better than this. I am sure the Wright brothers were thought to be lunatics for believing they could fly. Who would have suspected the lunacy of computers and nuclear physics 500 years ago? Do you suppose that something you think might be lunacy could actually be true. Do you suppose that you can grasp and explain everying in the universe? It is beginning to sound to me like you might be elevating yourself and your rationalism as a god. Sad.

Why COULDNT Christ turn into an Angel?

Especially Chief of Angels!

As I have indicated, Jesus could become man and suppress his divinity at some level. But angels are spirit, finite spirit. Jesus was completely spirit before the incarnation and infinite spirit. If Jesus separated out some part of his spirit and made it a finite angelic spirit, that spirit would no longer be God. Now maybe Jesus could somehow suppress a part of his spirit such that he acted as a finite angel. I don't know. But he would still be fully united with the infinite spirit of God.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

First let me establish that Jesus Christ, the Anoited One of God is a Human.

1 Timothy 2:5 (King James Version) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man[HUMAN BEING] Christ Jesus;

Jesus Christ was the first human to achieve a resurrected, spiritual body.

Colossians 1:18 (King James Version) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (King James Version) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The first man is fleshy, carnal, he is of this earth(Adam.) The last man is raised as a spiritual body, he is of heaven. Jesus Christ went through this. He put on a body of death, He died and was given a Spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (King James Version) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

 

[ChristineES]

This isn't about Jesus being a human or not. He was a human on Earth and died and was raised again as a human, we know that. But Jesus was and is NOT an Angel. He never was an angel. It appears that the angels in heaven did not need a savior, so why would he become one?

 

[Gendou Ikari]

This isn't about Jesus being a human or not. He was a human on Earth and died and was raised again as a human, we know that. But Jesus was and is NOT an Angel. He never was an angel. It appears that the angels in heaven did not need a savior, so why would he become one?

Like I said in the other thread, you can't Scripturally be an Angel. Angel isn't a Scriptural word. The Greek word is, "Aggelos" and it means, "messenger." So, I really fail to see why Jesus cannot be Cheif Messenger. I don't believe He is because of Jude 1:9, however.

 

[thessalonian]

This isn't about Jesus being a human or not. He was a human on Earth and died and was raised again as a human, we know that. But Jesus was and is NOT an Angel. He never was an angel. It appears that the angels in heaven did not need a savior, so why would he become one?

Like I said in the other thread, you can't Scripturally be an Angel. Angel isn't a Scriptural word. The Greek word is, "Aggelos" and it means, "messenger." So, I really fail to see why Jesus cannot be Cheif Messenger. I don't believe He is because of Jude 1:9, however.

Aggelos translates to angel dude. What Bible do you have that translates it to messanger? An angel is a messanger.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

Aggelos translates to angel dude. What Bible do you have that translates it to messanger? An angel is a messanger.

I know an Angel is a messenger but it is not used of people, whereas Aggelos is. Which is why I prefer to avoid confusion and just say messenger.

 

[thessalonian]

Aggelos translates to angel dude. What Bible do you have that translates it to messanger? An angel is a messanger.

I know an Angel is a messenger but it is not used of people, whereas Aggelos is. Which is why I prefer to avoid confusion and just say messenger.

Well you've got me confused. Do you not believe that aggelos in the Bible are distinct from humans. Are you saying the aggelos are men? What are your transalating credentials such that your translation to messanger is better than any Bible with scholars who know greek and hebrew inside and out, who translate to angel? Messanger can be used for humans or angels. It's two broad a term.

 

[Gendou Ikari]

I have no problem with them translating it Angel as long as they are sure it is talking about a Spiritual Messenger and not a Physical one. But the word, "Aggelos" of itself, only means Messenger, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Yep, Jesus the man was. However Jesus, God was eternally God. God became man in the incarnation. The spirit of Jesus was eternal. That spirit was united with human flesh.

So "the Spirit of Jesus was eternal?"

And "God became man in the incarnation".

What does this DUALISM tells us?

That Jesus' Spirit can incarnate into ANY form He chooses!!!!

Lunacy? First of all we do not believe that Jesus existed in human form for all eternity. You know better than this. I am sure the Wright brothers were thought to be lunatics for believing they could fly. Who would have suspected the lunacy of computers and nuclear physics 500 years ago? Do you suppose that something you think might be lunacy could actually be true. Do you suppose that you can grasp and explain everying in the universe? It is beginning to sound to me like you might be elevating yourself and your rationalism as a god. Sad.

When SDA's and JW's are called heretics for believing Christ kicks demon butt in the form of the Archeangel I call it lunacy!

As I have indicated, Jesus could become man and suppress his divinity at some level. But angels are spirit, finite spirit. Jesus was completely spirit before the incarnation and infinite spirit. If Jesus separated out some part of his spirit and made it a finite angelic spirit, that spirit would no longer be God. Now maybe Jesus could somehow suppress a part of his spirit such that he acted as a finite angel. I don't know. But he would still be fully united with the infinite spirit of God.

Then the incarnation of Jesus into the human flesh of the Nazarene was not fully God!!!

There was nothing special about the "flesh" of the earthly Jesus. He had the needs that we all do. HE WAS LIMITED according to this reasoning.

But the Truth of the matter is... The infinite Spirit of God can take ANY form it chooses!

An archeangel
A bird
A fish
A multidimensional Being beyond human description...

etc.

 

[thessalonian]

So "the Spirit of Jesus was eternal?"

And "God became man in the incarnation".

What does this DUALISM tells us?

That Jesus' Spirit can incarnate into ANY form He chooses!!!!

Dualism? Are you making up your own definition of dualism. Seems you like to do that and like to embrace the theories of the more bizzare forms of "Christianity" and identify with them. Seems the stranger the Bible interpretation the more you like it. DOWN WITH Traditional Christianity seems to be your battle cry. If it has been believed for 2000 years you don't want any part of it. If it is new AMEN BROTHER. The incarnation is not about God becoming something else (i.e. man) it is about the eternal God joining with man, taking on the form of a man, yet he is still the eternal, infinite God. I know you can't rationalize this and so it will not stand.

When SDA's and JW's are called heretics for believing Christ kicks demon butt in the form of the Archeangel I call it lunacy!

Show me that SDA's believe that Jesus was Michael. They don't that I know of. Why do you keep stating it? It is my scriptural understanding and I think a pretty reasonable one that Christ was not Michael. Now if he was not, even though it makes a nice fairy tale, it is still heresy to believe that he was. "Oh, well, your wrong but it's such a nice story that we'll just go along with you on that one.". No, either we can know what the Bible says and what truth is or we can't. You seem to believe we can't and relativism is the order of the day. I will call that heresy as well.

Then the incarnation of Jesus into the human flesh of the Nazarene was not fully God!!!

Yes he was. Once again you can't wrap your limited mind around it so you distort it to your liking. I say it again, I am afraid it is you and your rationalism that is the god. I do not say that with animosity but saddness at your prideful state.

There was nothing special about the "flesh" of the earthly Jesus. He had the needs that we all do. HE WAS LIMITED according to this reasoning.

He allowed himself to be limited. That flesh was special in that it allowed God to feel the pain and suffering of mankind and allowed an innocent man (who was also God) to pay the price for our sins.

But the Truth of the matter is... The infinite Spirit of God can take ANY form it chooses!

The spirit did not take on the form of a man is the problem with your rationalizing. His spirit was still infinite while he was man. Spirit does not have to be confined within the physical. Angels are spiritual beings as God is. They are not another form except that they are finite. That is the problem with your theory, the infinite God could not have become a finite spirit. But the infinite spirit of God could unite with man.

An archeangel
A bird
A fish
A multidimensional Being beyond human description...

etc.

Making up your own story. :-?