What form of "Church Gov." do we have here on the

[cyberjosh]

I've been thinking about this, especially after reading Paul's epistles which exhort, largely, not individuals but rather the unified Church to act on what he tells us. And so as a community of brother's and sisters in Christ (and some sojourners & aliens among us) how can we fulfill the command to be unified in mind and spirit, seeking after Christ if we often break Paul's very command not to bicker. Are then these boards a stumbling block, an invitation - if you will, to sin? How can we engage in what is right, while still being sincere in our discussions? After a while on another forum of debating with Atheists and a few who were Christians, to back me up, I realized we were going in circles and that it was actually wrong for me to continue on in such a manner since the unbelievers had long since rejected repeated attempts to reason with them (the Bible infact only says to go to someone three times and request that they repent - then shun them), but I infact went thousands of times back to the same old drawing board in a lost hope.

But moving past that, how can we have a beneficial community here on the boards? Do we indeed have common creed? Do we indeed have a common savior? Is so then how often do we give our hand a try at mutual edification? I have started debates as well, but I always try to bring about a reconcilliation toward a higher goal, not using such threads as a means of provocation of my brethren and, perhaps, even the alien and sojourner (and if the alien & sojourner sees we cannot be of one mind then what might such an outsider think of joining the Church who is supposed to be "above reproach"). I myself am not wholely innocent of such things in the past, but I ask us all to consider these things, "forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, [let us] press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus", and consider how we can corporately sponsor such debates as we always have without being divisive, but rather acting for an edificational goal.

What say ye to this inquiry and proposal? Is it possible that we can set together common goals for us to pursue? Could were even (as most churches do) at least attempt to post a list of goals we would like to work toward as a comunity - thus making the boards more than a convenience but rather a true meeting together of believers for edification as an online community?

Tell me your thoughts.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[mondar]

Re: What form of "Church Gov." do we have here on

I've been thinking about this, especially after reading Paul's epistles which exhort, largely, not individuals but rather the unified Church to act on what he tells us. And so as a community of brother's and sisters in Christ (and some sojourners & aliens among us) how can we fulfill the command to be unified in mind and spirit, seeking after Christ if we often break Paul's very command not to bicker. Is then these boards a stumbling block, an invitation - if you will, to sin? How will we engage in what it right while still being sincere in our discussions.


After a while on another forum of debating with Atheists and a few who were Christians to back me up I realized we were going in circles and that it was actually wrong for me to continue on in such a manner since the unbelievers had rejected repeated attempts to reason with them (the Bible infact only says to go to someone three times and request that they repent - then shun them), but I infact went thousands of times back to the same old drawing board.

Josh, I think what you posted should be in two paragraphs. They seem like two separate subjects. In the first paragraph you deal with relationships with other Christians, in the second you are talking about atheists.

Concerning your relationship with other Christians.... Disagreements are absolutely going to happen. We will have different opinions for many reasons. George Ladd wrote in one of his books that,
"Isolated verses can be quoted for most of the interpretations which can be found in our theological literature." When a person already knows what he believes, and approaches the scriptures to simply "find a verse" that supports the desire opinion, we inevitably will find what we want. Therefore, some are more dependent upon the theological traditions that they live in and worship in.

These differences of opinions vary in importance. Some are inhouse differences of opinions between brothers in the Lord. They must be kept in perspective. Because a brother in the Lord differs in opinion with me does not mean he is an evil person. Good men disagree at times. That does not mean that they cannot both be good men.

On the other hand, there are those outside the faith. Our disagreement with them is much more important. The scripture enjoins us to act tolerantly of our fellow brothers in the Lord and to be careful not to destroy their faith with our liberty. On the other hand, for those outside the faith we must "earnestly contend for the faith that was once delivered for the saints." Even so, grace should still season our speech. I say this not as one perfected in speaking with grace, but as one who needs to grow. I have my faults too.

When we "earnestly contend for the faith" (Jude 3) we are engaging in apologetics. This is a field of theology that is very close to the scriptures. The early Church had its apologists. Matthew, but especially someone like Paul often wrote very apologetically. At times they were didactic, but often their epistolary style was apologetic. If one corrupts the nature of God, Christ, or changes the essence of the gospel, this is a very serious issue. Contention, arguments, and rejection is then to be expected. This would be the nature of a conversation with atheists.

But moving past that, how can we have a beneficial comunity here on the boards?

Certainly not from a non-mod perspective. For we who just come on this BB, it is no more then like a chance meeting on the street with people.

Do we indeed have common creed? Do we indeed have a common savior?

There is certainly no common creed among we non-mods. Neither do we have a common savior with all on this BB. I posted a survey in "science and christianity." The non-theists (atheists, pantheists, agnostics, etc) outnumbered the theists (Jews, muslims, christians in the general broad sense).

Is so then how often do we give our hand a try at mututal edification?

I do not see the nature of this BB as any sort of Church, or even geared toward edification. That does not mean that this BB is invalid. It is simply that the purpose is not edification. However, that could be one of several objectives.

I have started debates as well, but I always try to bring about a reconcilliation toward a higher goal, not using such threads as a means of provocation of my brethren and perhaps even the alien and sojourner (and if the alien & sojourner sees we cannot be of one mind then what might such an outsider think of joining the Church who is supposed to be "above reproach"). I myself am not wholely innocent of such things in the past, but I ask us all to consider these things, "forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, [let us] press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus", and consider how we can corporately sponsor such debates as we always have without being divisive, but rather acting for an edificational goal.

What say ye to this inquiry and proposal? Is it possible that we can set together common goals for us to pursue? Could were even (as most churches do) at least attempt to post a list of goals we would like to work toward as a comunity - thus making the boards more than a convenience but rather a true meeting together of believers for edification as an online community?

Tell me your thoughts.

God Bless,

~Josh

I would still not see edification as a primary objective. There might be a degree of commonness of purpose between some of us. I have seen that common purpose and fellowship happen here. If you read certain lines closely and carefully there is a brotherhood between people that never meet in real life. There is the bond of the gospel. Josh, it would be very illuminating if all the private Emails were made public. It would expose things happening in which commonness in the gospel can be seen.

Josh, I would not worry much about aggressive and argumentative tones. Sometimes they are there for a reason. If someone gets nasty to you, sit back, smile, and keep right on rolling.

 

[ÃÂoppleganger]

If we often break Paul's very command not to bicker. Is then these boards a stumbling block, an invitation - if you will, to sin?

Yes, they are, and after years of being here I believe it is time for me to be less active.

How will we engage in what it right while still being sincere in our discussions.

By not taking an objectionable stance, but to sincerely DEBATE. I once Posted on this, "The Phlosophy of Education" But it was deleted. I believe it was my debate 5 of 6 closing thread. Why It was deleted I don't know. Even in the end when 2 parties can come to some disagreement. They should be patting each other on the back like an oppenent in the ring. Not laying traps for one another!

I realized we were going in circles and that it was actually wrong for me to continue on in such a manner?

I'm there now. Which is why I am moving on, per say. I even joined another forum more to my likening, but whether its the fact I don't debate people who have the same interests, and just don't wanna post. Or the fact, that discussion boards are not really condusive to debate, but is just a way of expressing one's opinion on a subject. Or the fact, I'm tired of it.

But moving past that, how can we have a beneficial comunity here on the boards?

I won't give you my opinion here, lest I sound egotistical.

I have started debates as well, but I always try to bring about a reconcilliation toward a higher goal, not using such threads as a means of provocation?

I would agree with you there Cyber, you have gone the extra mile.

I myself am not wholely innocent of such things in the past.

Nope, but none of us are!

How we can corporately sponsor such debates as we always have without being divisive, but rather acting for an edificational goal?

I actually came here to this board hoping to learn and receive some education. Well, that didn't work out to well. Anyways. Edifiing his Word not our own Ego's I guess. Which just sounds like another catchy phase. Anyways, words on forums don't always come out like they sound.

Is it possible that we can set together common goals for us to pursue?

I don't know can you? This is really a moderator controlled assembly of Rapturists (throw in a few evolutionists, Catholic's, and some riff raff like me) that don't like anyone thinking outside there box. Anyways, It aint been all bad. Can't really say I've meet any friends except for Tim_of_Pa though.

So, enough of my ramblings, anyways I hope you all work this out. Its better for you and me and others that'll join later on. Like I said I'm movin on and I'll check in from time to time.

Please visit http://www.wikigodsword.org/ it's a neutral site, WIKI and Forum that is dedicated to spreading God's Word in a non-biased way, a place where all denominations and beliefs can experience each others value systems., contribute to something meaningful, and meet other people such as yourselves.