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Bible Study What Had Happened to Salvation in Acts 8th Chapter?

Golgotha

Member
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

These potential new believers were not saved yet, because they did not have the Holy Spirit yet and thus not born again of the Spirit at their salvation. Paul confirms this truth elsewhere.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

So what had happened that their salvation was delayed?

One could say that Luke had written Acts 8 in that way because those potential believers were not believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel, but believing in Philip in the "things" he was preaching about & following him to behold the miracles out of fanfare, which apparently is not the same as coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel. Their sights had to be lifted away from Philip & higher because of how that public high regard shifted from Simon to Philip naturally.

This happened to another set of potential believers in Acts.

Acts 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

So in spite of the preaching & the miracle, because of the mindset of the people, they applied their practice of idolatry to Barnabus and Paul rather than respond to Paul's preaching by coming to & believing in Jesus Christ.

Here is the mindset of the people in that area in Acts 8th chapter.


Acts 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

So in Acts 8, the mindset of the public's high regards of Simon shifted from Simon to Philip and were not really paying attention to Philip's preaching to be coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.

The fact that Simon had thought he could buy the power of laying on of hands to give the Holy Ghost from Peter & John was why Peter & John had to rebuke him so his mindset and sights are lifted higher to Jesus Christ also, so He can save him.

This is God the Father being patient towards potential new believers that were still sinners in their mindsets and thus unsaved until their sights were lifted higher away from His disciples in drawing them to come to the Son to believe in Him to be saved.
 
These potential new believers were not saved yet, because they did not have the Holy Spirit yet and thus not born again of the Spirit at their salvation. Paul confirms this truth elsewhere.


But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done. Acts 8:12-13


These people were saved when they believed. Then they were water baptized by Phillip.


Jesus said that in order to be saved one must believe.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


  • lest they should believe and be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16







JLB
 
I agree with JLB ! :goodpost

So in Acts 8, the mindset of the public's high regards of Simon shifted from Simon to Philip and were not really paying attention to Philip's preaching to be coming to & believing in Jesus Christ at the calling of the gospel.
I see nothing in Acts 8 that would lead me to believe the people were not paying attention to Phillip's preaching . Lets look at what is said in Acts 8 .

Verse 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

The people paying attention to Phillip's preaching with one accord gave heed !

Verse 7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

All of this is going on and the people are not paying attention to Philip's preaching ? Even the unclean spirits were paying attention to Philip's preaching !

Verse 8 And there was great joy in that city.

There was great joy in that city because they had payed attention to Philip's peaching and heeded his words !

Verse 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

So what was Philip preaching that you say they were not paying attention to ? Philip was preaching the Gospel to them ! God's word does NOT come back void .

Verse 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

So just how much was Philip being used of God ? Philip's preaching was so anointed that even Simon the chief sinner among them heeded the words that Philip preached !

Golgotha If you still think " the people were really not paying attention the Philip's preaching " , it is going to be a mystery to me that I am not going to solve .
 
I agree with JLB ! :goodpost


I see nothing in Acts 8 that would lead me to believe the people were not paying attention to Phillip's preaching . Lets look at what is said in Acts 8 .

Verse 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.

The people paying attention to Phillip's preaching with one accord gave heed !

Verse 7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.

All of this is going on and the people are not paying attention to Philip's preaching ? Even the unclean spirits were paying attention to Philip's preaching !

Verse 8 And there was great joy in that city.

There was great joy in that city because they had payed attention to Philip's peaching and heeded his words !

Verse 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

So what was Philip preaching that you say they were not paying attention to ? Philip was preaching the Gospel to them ! God's word does NOT come back void .

Verse 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

So just how much was Philip being used of God ? Philip's preaching was so anointed that even Simon the chief sinner among them heeded the words that Philip preached !

Golgotha If you still think " the people were really not paying attention the Philip's preaching " , it is going to be a mystery to me that I am not going to solve .
I do point out that Luke reported in Acts that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet, but were only water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

So what had happened for their born again of the Spirit salvation moment to be delayed since Paul said this?

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Unless you can explain it, I point to the discernment I have shared earlier.
 
I do point out that Luke reported in Acts that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet, but were only water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Receiving the Holy Spirit referred to the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


Samaria had received the Gospel message and believed, in which they were baptized in water.


Are you saying people who believe the Gospel, and are baptized in water, yet have not been baptized with the Holy Spirit, are not saved?





JLB
 
Receiving the Holy Spirit referred to the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


Samaria had received the Gospel message and believed, in which they were baptized in water.


Are you saying people who believe the Gospel, and are baptized in water, yet have not been baptized with the Holy Spirit, are not saved?





JLB
Paul said so in Romans 8:9 and Luke said so by reporting they did not received the Holy Spirit yet.
 
I do point out that Luke reported in Acts that they had not received the Holy Spirit yet, but were only water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

So what had happened for their born again of the Spirit salvation moment to be delayed since Paul said this?

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Unless you can explain it, I point to the discernment I have shared earlier.
You seem to be saying no one is saved unless they are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, but these scriptures below contradict that as it is by the hearing of the word and by faith in what we heard accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior in whom is our faith when we first believed.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
You seem to be saying no one is saved unless they are indwelled with the Holy Spirit, but these scriptures below contradict that as it is by the hearing of the word and by faith in what we heard accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior in whom is our faith when we first believed.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
That reference above confirms what I am saying because our born again of the Spirit is our salvation moment. You cannot be saved until you are born again.
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
And by coming to & believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit.

Believers have a hard time with the Book of Acts and so when something is contrary like in Acts 8, tongue speakers read their experience into that Acts rather than what it is saying because those water baptized did not have the Holy Spirit yet and it was written so.

Why? I already discerned why but some members do not seem to believe it.

And so I go back to your reference in John 3 about being born again in the Spirit when obviously those in Acts 8 were not saved yet because they did not have the Holy Spirit yet for why they were not born again of the Spirit as in not saved "yet".

If you all disagree with the why, you have to either ask yourself why or at the very least explain why they did not get the Holy Spirit yet even though they were water baptized in His name. One thing I noted is just how Luke never had written that they had believed in Jesus Christ, but they had believed Philip in the things he had preached about for why I again discern that to mean something or else why did Luke written that they had believed in Jesus Christ instead?

I already explained why and so I shall leave it to you guys to ask Jesus why they did not get the Holy Spirit yet to be saved?
 
But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized. Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done. Acts 8:12-13


These people were saved when they believed. Then they were water baptized by Phillip.


Jesus said that in order to be saved one must believe.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


  • lest they should believe and be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16







JLB

That's my understanding. Baptism is a good thing to do but is not a requirement to be saved. One need only to look at the Thief on the cross next to Jesus and see what was said to confirm that.
 
I already explained why and so I shall leave it to you guys to ask Jesus why they did not get the Holy Spirit yet to be saved?

I think God does things by His prerogative. He did do quite a lot of things back then that are still vague to us and our limited understanding. In short, that's just God doing what He does.
 
That's my understanding. Baptism is a good thing to do but is not a requirement to be saved. One need only to look at the Thief on the cross next to Jesus and see what was said to confirm that.
One concern I have about this is that it seems to diminish baptism when Jesus Himself commanded that we be baptized.

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:16 NKJV

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;"
Matthew 28:19-20 NKJV

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV

What does it mean to believe in Him? Does following His commands not fit in this description?
 
One concern I have about this is that it seems to diminish baptism when Jesus Himself commanded that we be baptized.

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:16 NKJV

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you;"
Matthew 28:19-20 NKJV

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV

What does it mean to believe in Him? Does following His commands not fit in this description?

It sure does fit into the description. But as we know, we live in a fallen world so there will be different levels of obedience between people. Those who care about the Lord enough to walk in Him to the Baptismal pool. Perhaps obtaining a little more of the fullness of Christ within themselves?

When we get baptized, it tells the world that, I am He which walk in the Spirit of my Father.

Just like what Jesus said when they came for Him in Gethsemane. ...I am He. :wink
 
I think God does things by His prerogative. He did do quite a lot of things back then that are still vague to us and our limited understanding. In short, that's just God doing what He does.
I do apply what Jesus said about being born again in the Spirit for why their mindset was wrong for why it was delayed.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

So if there is no way to tell from looking on the outside when one is born again, then just because someone got water baptized, it does not mean they were saved.

Some people say that not every church member is saved, but some may have joined for social status & interactions with other people. They may even be forthright about it too. I believe I came across a couple that told me that in my former church, but it was a vague recollection because I cannot remember who they were.

But I do wonder that those potential new believers were not saved yet in Acts 8 because they were following the crowd for the same reason they all were in following Philip around as they were bewildered by all the miracles seemingly being done by "Philip".

Anyway, to have the Holy Spirit is the seal of adoption that comes at our salvation moment when coming to & believing in Jesus Christ for why I just see them as coming to Philip in following him to see all the miracles, even if it meant to be water baptized in Jesus's name in following him around.
 
Ill be glad to discuss any scripture you post.
In light of Romans 8:9

Romans 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And Luke's report

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. 14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

This explains to me that they did not have that born again of the Spirit moment and thus they were not saved yet until they had received the Holy Spirit. Do you concur?
 
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