Bible Study What Happened 'BEFORE' Genesis 1:1 ?

[Jay T]

Ever thought about that before ?

You know, the Bible does speak about a time before this earth was created, did you know that ?

 

[Featherbop]

I've thought before, and it's unimaginable to me almost completely. I've thought, and I think God may have been lonely and sad, before He ever created anything. Since humans are created with the image and likenesses of God, then I do beleive God was in a sad state. Humans are sad when they are alone. I don't know....

 

[Asimov]

I've thought before, and it's unimaginable to me almost completely. I've thought, and I think God may have been lonely and sad, before He ever created anything. Since humans are created with the image and likenesses of God, then I do beleive God was in a sad state. Humans are sad when they are alone. I don't know....

Is God perfect, Darck Marck?

 

[serapha]

I've thought before, and it's unimaginable to me almost completely. I've thought, and I think God may have been lonely and sad, before He ever created anything. Since humans are created with the image and likenesses of God, then I do beleive God was in a sad state. Humans are sad when they are alone. I don't know....

Hi there!

:angel:


I don't believe that God was lonely as God is the total essence of the "Living Word," the Holy Spirit, God the Father, and there were all of the angels to attend to all of the needs of heaven. How would God be lonely with the millions and millions (mariads times miriads) of angels in heaven?


~serapha~

 

[Free]

Serapha,

But were angels and heaven in existence before creation? Is it even possible that they were? Angels are for mans benefit, not God's.

 

[evanman]

Ever thought about that before ?

You know, the Bible does speak about a time before this earth was created, did you know that ?

Please state what you are referring to.

 

[Jay T]

I've thought before, and it's unimaginable to me almost completely. I've thought, and I think God may have been lonely and sad, before He ever created anything. Since humans are created with the image and likenesses of God, then I do beleive God was in a sad state. Humans are sad when they are alone. I don't know....

The Fall of Lucifer


Lucifer in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honor to God's dear Son. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing a powerful intellect. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. A special light beamed in his countenance and shone around him brighter and more beautiful than around the other angels; yet Christ, God's dear Son, had the pre-eminence over all the angelic host. He was one with the Father before the angels were created. Lucifer was envious of Christ, and gradually assumed command which devolved on Christ alone.

The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that He might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon His Son. The Son was seated on the throne with the Father, and the heavenly throng of holy angels was gathered around them. The Father then made known that it was ordained by Himself that Christ, His Son, should be equal with Himself; so that wherever was the presence of His Son, it was as His own presence. The word of the Son was to be obeyed as readily as the word of the Father. His Son He had invested with authority to command the heavenly host. Especially was His Son to work in union with Himself in the anticipated creation of the earth and every living thing that should exist upon the earth. His Son would carry out His will and His purposes but would do nothing of Himself alone. The Father's will would be fulfilled in Him.

Lucifer was envious and jealous of Jesus Christ. Yet when all the angels bowed to Jesus to acknowledge His supremacy and high authority and rightful rule, he bowed with them; but his heart was filled with envy and hatred. Christ had been taken into the special counsel of God in regard to His plans, while Lucifer was unacquainted with them. He did not understand, neither was he permitted to know, the purposes of God. But Christ was acknowledged sovereign of heaven, His power and authority to be the same as that of God Himself. Lucifer thought that he was himself a favorite in heaven among the angels. He had been highly exalted, but this did not call forth from him gratitude and praise to his Creator. He aspired to the height of God Himself. He gloried in his loftiness. He knew that he was honored by the angels. He had a special mission to execute. He had been near the great Creator, and the ceaseless beams of glorious light enshrouding the eternal God had shone especially upon him. He thought how angels had obeyed his command with pleasurable alacrity. Were not his garments light and beautiful? Why should Christ thus be honored before himself?

He left the immediate presence of the Father, dissatisfied and filled with envy against Jesus Christ. Concealing his real purposes, he assembled the angelic host. He introduced his subject, which was himself. As one aggrieved, he related the preference God had given Jesus to the neglect of himself. He told them that henceforth all the sweet liberty the angels had enjoyed was at an end. For had not a ruler been appointed
over them, to whom they from henceforth must yield servile honor? He stated to them that he had called them together to assure them that he no longer would submit to this invasion of his rights and theirs; that never would he again bow down to Christ; that he would take the honor upon himself which should have been conferred upon him, and would be the commander of all who would submit to follow him and obey his voice.

There was contention among the angels. Lucifer and his sympathizers were striving to reform the government of God. They were discontented and unhappy because they could not look into His unsearchable wisdom and ascertain His purposes in exalting His Son, and endowing Him with such unlimited power and command. They rebelled against the authority of the Son.

Angels that were loyal and true sought to reconcile this mighty, rebellious angel to the will of his Creator. They justified the act of God in conferring honor upon Christ, and with forcible reasoning sought to convince Lucifer that no less honor was his now than before the Father had proclaimed the honor which He had conferred upon His Son. They clearly set forth that Christ was the Son of God, existing with Him before the angels were created; and that He had ever stood at the right hand of God, and His mild, loving authority had not heretofore been questioned; and that He had given no commands but what it was joy for the heavenly host to execute. They urged that Christ's receiving special honor from the Father, in the presence of the angels, did not detract from the honor that Lucifer had heretofore received. The angels wept. They anxiously sought to move him to renounce his wicked design and yield submission to their
Creator; for all had heretofore been peace and harmony, and what could occasion this dissenting, rebellious voice?

Lucifer refused to listen. And then he turned from the loyal and true angels, denouncing them as slaves. These angels, true to God, stood in amazement as they saw that Lucifer was successful in his effort to incite rebellion. He promised them a new and better government than they then had, in which all would be freedom. Great numbers signified their purpose to accept him as their leader and chief commander. As he saw his advances were met with success, he flattered himself that he should yet have all the angels on his side, and that he would be equal with God Himself, and his voice of authority would be heard in commanding the entire host of heaven. Again the loyal angels warned him, and assured him what must be the consequences if he persisted; that He who could create the angels could by His power overturn all their authority and in some signal manner punish their audacity and terrible rebellion. To think that an angel should resist the law of God which was as sacred as Himself! They warned the rebellious to close their ears to Lucifer's deceptive reasonings, and advised him and all who had been affected by him to go to God and confess their wrong for even admitting a thought of questioning His authority.

Many of Lucifer's sympathizers were inclined to heed the counsel of the loyal angels and repent of their dissatisfaction and be again received to the confidence of the Father and His dear Son. The mighty revolter then declared that he was acquainted with God's law, and if he should submit to servile obedience, his honor would be taken from him. No more would he be intrusted with his exalted mission. He told them that himself and they also had now gone too far to go back, and he would brave the consequences, for to bow in servile worship to the Son of God he never would; that God would not forgive, and now they must assert their liberty and gain by force the position and authority which was not willingly accorded to them. [THUS IT WAS THAT LUCIFER, "THE LIGHT-BEARER," THE SHARER OF GOD'S GLORY, THE ATTENDANT OF HIS THRONE, BY TRANSGRESSION BECAME SATAN, "THE ADVERSARY." ]

The loyal angels hastened speedily to the Son of God and acquainted Him with what was taking place among the angels. They found the Father in conference with His beloved Son, to determine the means by which, for the best good of the loyal angels, the assumed authority of Satan could be forever put down. The great God could at once have hurled this archdeceiver from heaven; but this was not His purpose. He would give the rebellious an equal chance to measure strength and might with His own Son and His loyal angels. In this battle every angel would choose his own side and be manifested to all. It would not have been safe to suffer any who united with Satan in his rebellion to continue to occupy heaven. They had learned the lesson of genuine rebellion against the unchangeable law of God, and this is incurable. If God had exercised His power to punish this chief rebel, disaffected angels would not have been manifested; hence, God took another course, for He would manifest distinctly to all the heavenly host His justice and His judgment.

 

[Jay T]

Ever thought about that before ?

You know, the Bible does speak about a time before this earth was created, did you know that ?

Please state what you are referring to.

Ezekiel 28:12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
28:15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee".
***********************************************************
Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High".
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Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him".

 

[evanman]

Dear Jay T, thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure if you were speaking of Pre-Adamite civilisation.

 

[Featherbop]

[quote="Darck Marck":67b39]I've thought before, and it's unimaginable to me almost completely. I've thought, and I think God may have been lonely and sad, before He ever created anything. Since humans are created with the image and likenesses of God, then I do beleive God was in a sad state. Humans are sad when they are alone. I don't know....

Is God perfect, Darck Marck?[/quote:67b39]

It depends on how you define perfect. Stop a thousand differnet people on the street, and you'll get many, many answers to what "perfect" is.

An atheist can nitpick "perfection" to death, and never comeup with anything relevant to God.

I can't answer your question, unless you'll give a definition in which to formulate my answer in accordance with the definition.

 

[Bob10]

Does anyone actually think this is the first time God [Elohim] has re-created Himself, in the Universe?

All the creatures God made before man were created after THEIR KIND.

God created people after His likeness, after HIS KIND -- the GOD KIND.
What if God is not just the name of a Person, but a kind of being.

Peter says: "....you might be partakers of divine nature" - 2Peter 1:4
John says: "....when He shall appear, we shall be like Him;..." - 1 Jn 3:2


God is reproducing Himself through us.

http://www.cemnetwork.com/bcc/ --- Lessons 2, 3, 4 are about this topic

 

[Guest]

To Jay T:

Very nice story about Lucifer Jay, except it seems to be very bad theology!! If Heaven is perfection, how could Lucifer rebel and sin against God ? If there is sin in Heaven, what is then the difference between Heaven and Earth ?




:

 

[B]

Darck Marck wrote:
I've thought before, and it's unimaginable to me almost completely. I've thought, and I think God may have been lonely and sad, before He ever created anything. Since humans are created with the image and likenesses of God, then I do beleive God was in a sad state. Humans are sad when they are alone. I don't know....

Is God perfect, Darck Marck?


It depends on how you define perfect. Stop a thousand differnet people on the street, and you'll get many, many answers to what "perfect" is.

An atheist can nitpick "perfection" to death, and never comeup with anything relevant to God.

Perfection: Having no flaws. A perfect being can have no wants, needs, worries, hopes, problems, plans or choices.

 

[evanman]

God is reproducing Himself through us.

NOWHERE IS SUCH A THING SUGGESTED IN SCRIPTURE.

This smacks of the "We are God heresy!"

 

[willow the wip]

God is reproducing Himself through us.

no diffrent from the new age and the false teacher.

this is what it means from an encylopidia.
___________________________________________________________
Pantheism: All that exists is God; God is all that exists. This leads naturally to the concept of the divinity of the individual, that we are all Gods. They do not seek God as revealed in a sacred text or as exists in a remote heaven; they seek God within the self and throughout the entire universe.


Panentheism: God is all that exists. God is at once the entire universe, and transcends the universe as well.


Personal Transformation A profoundly intense mystical experience will lead to the acceptance and use of New Age beliefs and practices. Guided imagery, hypnosis, meditation, and (sometimes) the use of hallucinogenic drugs are useful to bring about and enhance this transformation. Believers hope to develop new potentials within themselves: the ability to heal oneself and others, psychic powers, a new understanding of the workings of the universe, etc. Later, when sufficient numbers of people have achieved these powers, a major spiritual, physical, psychological and cultural planet-wide transformation is expected.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/newage.htm
__________________________________________________________



This is occultic satan said to eve you can be as Gods.

 

[Bob10]

Bob10:
God is reproducing Himself through us.


willow the wip:
no diffrent from the new age and the false teacher.

"Let us make man in OUR IMAGE, after OUR LIKENESS [KIND]" is false teaching ?

God is reproducing Himself. We are begotten children of God.

C. S. Lewis writes in his book, Mere Christianity, book four - chapter one, "What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man".

 

[willow the wip]

the bible dose not say we are begotten children of God you sir are in danger of producing this heretical teaching,

plus you have taken c.s lewis out of context.

 

[willow the wip]

for example

http://www.letusreason.org/Poptea16.htm

Creflo Dollar teaching on the God/man

Over the last several years there have been many new disciples of the Copeland and Hagin camp that have entered on the scene with the prosperity message. In my opinion there has been none more blatant or conniving (and convincing) than Creflo Dollar. He may be called Dr. but listening to his teachings it is apparent his degree in theology was not acquired at a normal conservative Bible seminary. This man is on the leading edge of star trek Bible interpretations, taking it where no man has gone before. His influence is clearly from his mentor Kenneth Copeland; he appears fairly regularly on his TV program. According to J. Lee Grady, an editor with Charisma Magazine, Copeland provided Dollar with financial backing. Mr. Dollar has certainly been discipled well under Copeland’s influence. He is preaching word faith to the MAX! If one were to close their eyes and listen, they can barely tell between Creflo and Copeland’s voice inflections and personality. I’m sure he would take this as a compliment. Simply put-Creflo is regurgitated Copeland (and Hagin).

His teachings are based on and his spiritual mentor Kenneth Copeland, who according to J. Lee Grady, an editor with Charisma Magazine had provided Dollar with his financial backing (source from Atlanta Journal-Constitution - John Blake March 5, 2000 Dollar and the Gospel http://www.rickross.com/reference/funda ... und40.html )

The Teachings

On his website it states http://www.worldchangers.org/hspirit_t1.html “ He (the Holy Ghost) is the third person in the Trinity -- The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost.†He also states “We believe in water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe in the name of Jesus, and the authority invested in that name. We should be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.â€Â

The first and most important is the primary doctrine of the Trinity which is to upheld by the Christian church. Though his website states it this way, he has also stated in his definition a distortion. He explains: “The trinity is of course God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost. We have to be careful because religion has us sometime thinking we have three different Gods. You know there’s God here...hey holy ghost- hey Jesus…its God one God one faith one baptism not three Gods, not three faiths, not baptism’s everytime you mess up, one. God the father, one God, three functions one and different functions God functioning as a father, God functioning as a son, God functioning as the holy ghost. I am Creflo Dollar I’m a husband to my wife I’m, a father to my children I’m a pastor to gods sheep. Right now I’m not functioning as husband, I am not functioning as a father, I am functioning as one of the 5 fold ministry gifts to God’s sheep. Same guy other functions you follow me. One God other functions.â€Â(Feb.19, 2001 World Changers program Lesea broadcasting)

The orthoox Christian teaching of the Trinity is not that the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit are functions, but are persons. He also confirms his position when he says for his own baptism “I used to be a baptist, I got baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost which is none other than the name of Jesus†(tape on file). Whether Creflo subscribes to the trinity is hard to say, as he has stated both positions confusing the issue. This is a Oneness Pentecostal view, that they (a denial of persons) are only roles (modes or functions?) More specifically this is the ancient heresy of Sabellian. There are many new teachers today who do not have a grasp on the tri-unity of God and from this distortion they go into other distorted (false) doctrines. When I say false I mean that they take a truth and change it, bring it to an extreme. For example they will take a certain circumstance or promise out of the Bible and make it a general one for all. But in this case its just flat out false teaching and it affects everything else that is attached to it. To be baptized in Jesus name means to Oneness Pentecostals the same as to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, for they are all Jesus.

Just as Creflo seems to confuse the nature of God, he also confuses the nature of man, which becomes crucial. He teaches we have equality and no inferiority to God in His righteousness and abilities on earth. But for one to get this understanding their mind needs to be renewed in the area of righteousness (like his), so they can embrace the full truth of it by faith. “You begin to study the righteousness of God is also defined as having equality with God†… “we’re struggling to try and get what God says we can have because we keep seeing ourselves as little slaves and He’s the big boss.†“I’m going to show you a scripture now that will just shock you real good, make you mad, upset, all kinds of things and then I’m going to go and walk you through Genesis all the way back up through the Bible. But the first scripture is going to do all kinds of stuff to your head, … but I’m going to show you something Jesus said and I’m going to show you where He got it from.â€Â

Quoting Jn.10:34 and Ps.82:6 Creflo states “Wow. Let’s read verse 6, ready read: “I have said ye are gods and all of you are children of the most High. But you shall die like men and fall like one of the princes.†Well, we know who that is right? “Arise oh God, judge the earth for thou shall inherit all the nations.†“ Now, notice what He says here, “Ye are gods†small g. You are gods? Somebody says “You trying to say we’re gods?†No, I’m not trying to say we’re gods. He already said it. But what I want to know is Lord, how can we be gods? And He answers it in the next phrase. Because you are the children of the Most High. See if you are truly a child of God, if you were born out of God, you got to be a part of the God class. I know I’m not God. But I’m a child of the Most High…I’m a part of the God class…. But then the next verse says, “Because you did not believe you were gods, you’re going to die like men.†But it says you’re gods. And I said now, Lord, wait a minute here. How we going to prove this? Because I kept hearing over and over again all this week, we need to have a God training class for Christians. So they can start acting … â€Â(Our equality with God through righteousness 1/21/2001)

This is not what the next verse actually says, Creflo who moves in and around the Scriptures at a fast pace makes it hard for anyone to check on these statements as he brings them through his twist and turns to his conclusions. Ps. 82:6-8 ‘I said, 'You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.’ The biblical application of this verse was addressed to the judges of Israel they were called gods not because they were divine but because they represented the true and only God when they judged the people. The word for God that is used here is elohim, which can mean rulers,(not Yahweh elohim used only for the one God). The word for Judges is found in Ex.21:22; 22:8-9 it is ha elohim (other scriptures of how the acted Deut.1:16;16:18; 25:1; 2 Sam.11:7). Jesus goes on to explain: They ‘will die as mere men and fall as one of the princes’, that prince was Satan. They thought they were like God but they will die as mere men. It is then they will know the difference between the creator who is the true God and their own mortality. Juxtapose this with the end of Ps.82 in verse 8: “Arise, O God, judge the earth; for You shall inherit all nations.†It points to only one God who eventually will judge righteously and rule over all the people one day. Nowhere in Scripture is there a teaching of little gods verses big God, but instead the scripture teachesabout false gods verses the true God. So in reality to claim to be a little god is to put one in the category of a false god.

 

[willow the wip]

http://www.letusreason.org/Poptea16.htm

To understand what Creflo teaches we need to go back to the beginning, man’s beginning in the garden and compare what he says happened in the biblical account. Creflo has constructed a unique fairy tale from the Genesis record about Adam and God; from this distortion it affects almost everything else he believes; tithing, righteousness, Christ, healing, etc. In fact it goes to the core difference on the nature of man and God. For it affect the concept of mans relationship to God, we being servants to him as our King.

“What was the blueprint for man†Creflo asks his members. God made a man that reflected his image; is that correct. When you look in the mirror what do you see? A reflection of your what? Your image yourself. But who is that in the mirror? That’s you. Now you see and image a reflection of you. Because if you were not real, then you couldn’t produce a reflection of something that’s not there. Umm, Humm. So when God made man. All He did was take a reflection of Himself. You all ain’t listening to what I’m saying. He [speaks in tongues], son, help me, the Hebrew translation here “God made another speaking spiritâ€Â. The actual meaning there “He made another speaking spiritâ€Â…

So when God made man all he did was take a reflection of himself… So he said let us make another speaking spirit. When God made Adam all he did was make an exact imprint of hisself. He duplicated himself, he was the image and from his image came hisself…(Our equality with God through Righteousness 1/21/2001).

“Because the first Adam, he had my blood in him. He had blood type G on the inside of him. I mean, the blood of any child comes from the father. Well, the father, God, was the one that had to create the blood to flow into Adam, cause he was the first one. So I got to get the same thing happening here and this last Adam got to have blood type g like this first Adam had blood type g. And then I got to have myself on the inside of that body like I was on the inside of Adam†(Creflo Dollar April 16, 2002 Changing your world LeSea Broadcasting) .

Here Creflo is making the comparison of Adam being God, as Jesus was God. So he is saying Adam was the first incarnation of God created from the ground and Jesus is the second incarnation of God created from Mary. Another quote confirms the Adam god teaching. “Adam had running in his veins blood type g, that was God’s blood, God had to get another man just like Adam and he had to have running in his veins the same type blood that Adam had in his veins, so God didn’t create the 2nd Adam he created the last Adam because once Jesus finishes with this thing we ain’t gonna need no other Adam, you understand†(Changing your World, LeSea Broadcasting).

Clearly Creflo holds to Adam being God in the flesh just as Jesus is.

“ That was God in that body, we always think of that with the last Adam but we never say that with the first Adam. It was God. God took a reflection of Himself and put it in a physical body formed out of the dust and gave him authority of all physical things on the planet. So that like He was God in heaven, now He’s made Adam God of the earth. Adam has been crowned God of all physical things from the dust of the earth including the moon the stars and the planets. I’m going to show you all thin in Scripture but just follow me now… I’m just askin’ you to trust me for a minute until I open the Bible†(sure would have helped if he opened it before he spoke).

It is here where we take off into new star trek interpretations: “Mars and Venus and Jupiter, all of the handiwork of God was now placed in the authority of the God of the earth. And here’s what He told him. He said I want you to guard it and keep out all intruders. Now that gives us a little insight on why When God made Adam all he did was make an exact imprint of hisself. He duplicated himself, he was the image and from his image came hisself…â€Â(Our Equality with God through Righteousness 1/21/2001)

Where does it say this in the Bible? I’m sure Creflo can find one obscure Scripture and contort it to fit his man/ god theology. But the Bible in Genesis does not say this at all. Image (as in the case of Adam) is only the reflection of another thing, it is not the other thing it is to reflect.

“You need to understand your not a second class something, you are an exact duplicate of the image of God and God is a speaking spirit and he said let us make another speaking spirit… God took a reflection and put it in a physical body formed out of the dust and gave authority of all physical things on the planet... he’s made Adam god of the earth Adam has been crowned God of all physical things from the dust of the earth including the moon the stars and the planets.†(ibid.)

The Bible explains that God gave Adam authority as a caretaker over the things on the earth and it specifically mentions them (Gen.1:26-27), but not those things outside the earth.
Gen. 1:28 “Then God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.†So God's word does not include anything outside our atmosphere as Creflo claims.

Crefo is not only teaching from the silence of the Bible, but opposite the clear teaching expressed in it. Adam never had the opportunity to exercise his authority as God put Him and Eve in a garden (Gen.2:8, 15) and forbid him to eat from a certain tree. In fact Adam lost his authority when he ate from the tree, he sinned and was forbidden back into the garden that he was given jurisdiction to govern (Gen.3:23-24). If our being is an exact duplicate of God, we should wonder why we have such a hard time accomplishing things? Is it because we must first discover our potential? This teaching according to Creflo takes special knowledge to grasp. What makes Adam or us different than Jesus? According to Creflo not much, we can do everything he can and even more.

“Everything that God has made. He has given man authority over His handiwork. [speaking in tongues] even the moon.â€Â(ibid) “I believe with all my heart that those planets out there are just a bunch of unfinished work that God was designing for man to finish as they entered into God training 101. Now, let’s get back to scripture†(Our Equality with God Through Righteousness 1/21/2001).

That would be a good idea to get back to Scripture the way it was written, not imagination, but then he would not have this revelation would he. Here’s the proof that the word faith teachers borrow the words from each other, and that it doesn’t matter if it’s in the Bible or not. Copeland who is Creflo’s discipler says “I am totally convinced that this is the reason that our surrounding planets are unfinished. I really believe that God intended for us to have a part in that.†(Kenneth Copeland Quotes “Believers Voice of Victory Program†week of March 12-16, 2001)

What we need to ask, is God not in control? Does He need to make another; a man, a creature to be a god and have control on earth? The Bible says in Col.1:15 Jesus (the Son of God) always controlled everything, it was never Adam or any man (creature). It seems Creflo wants to justify his control, so he and his companions in this error (Copeland etc.) have made up this fantasy from the Bible, fables if you will, to justify them-self in wanting to control their reality. The Bible actually states God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth†(Gen 1:26). Nowhere does it say what Creflo wants it’s to say. For even the psalmists says Ps. 8:5-8 “For You have made him a little lower than the angels, and You have crowned him with glory and honor. You have made him to have dominion over the works of Your hands; you have put all things under his feet, All sheep and oxen-- even the beasts of the field, The birds of the air, and the fish of the sea that pass through the paths of the seas,†reiterating Genesis the things man had dominion over are named.

The writer of Hebrews quotes this verse in Heb. 2:5-9. If one wants to isolate this verse without its context they can preach on it to prove man is to have control. However, if we read on†v.8-9 “For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. But we see Jesus, (him) who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.†Adam lost his headship and so Jesus the son of God came from heaven to regain it. Jesus fulfills this verse and whatever wider application it has, it is not yet appeared. So it meaningless to presume any other meaning than what the Bible has already given it.

Creflo doesn’t believe we are lower than angels but a little lower than God himself, according to him, we were made out of Him, “we like him just a little lower, see he was there for us first and he poured us out of himself so were a little lower, a little lower than who? Then el eloheem - the God and creator of all physical things now the implication here is that like the God and creator of all physical things you and I, we can be like el eloheem†(April 16, 2002 Changing your World, LeSea Broadcasting).

This conflicts with Creflo's other statements about Adam: who was made an exact imprint of hisself, “He duplicated himself†that he was on the inside of Adam's body. God is not lower than himself is He? Either we are equal or we are not.

Creflo further explains “So the rank is: God, man... [clapping] because He said He made man out of His reflection. He made man, He didn’t make angels out of His reflection, He made men, He made another speaking spirit.... God. Man. Angels. And Satan is in that class of angels†(Our Equality with God Through Righteousness 1/21/2001).

Creflo “God made man. All He did was take a reflection of Himself. You all ain’t listening to what I’m saying. He [tongues], son, help me, the Hebrew translation here “God made another speaking spirit.†“The actual meaning there He made another speaking spirit.â€Â

No, this is not the actual Hebrew translation. [Maybe Creflo read or heard someone quote the Targum of Onkelos where it says of Gen.2:7 when God breathed into man the breath of life man became a speaking spirit, or soul. The soul in the body of man became a speaking spirit. Man was endued with a natural faculty of speech… a speaking animal, or as a rational, a reasonable one. Certainly what Onkelos writes does not mean what Creflo is inserting into it to mean.]

Gen.1:26 “God made man in his image†Gen 1:24-31 the word for man is “the red soil,†from which the human body was formed (Gen 2:7). This is the earthly physical aspect of man, related to his body. MAN - Hebrew 'Adam ruddy i.e. a human being (meaning the individual and the species of mankind from his offspring, etc.) This Hebrew word appears about 562 times in the Scripture.

Nowhere does these words mean man became a speaking spirit, although he could think, speak, and move on his own, he doesn’t have the capabilities that Creflo attributes to him. Adam means man from the dirt not God who is man, which is uniquely found in Jesus Christ. Creflo is insinuating that we as a creature can speak things into existence like God does.

Lets look at what the Bible actually says “And the Lord God formed man (Adam) of the dust of the ground.†What are the features that man was created in, that would reflect his creator to be made in his image and likeness? God is Spirit (Jn.4:24)(uncreated) He is invisible. When it states we were created in His image and likeness in the Hebrew language Image (tselem) and the word likeness in Hebrew (demuth) is related to nature in the immaterial part of man. It means we have a spiritual/moral nature like God in a finite way. Any similarity is with finite qualities. God is a personal being; Image means man is in his likeness, personal. God has communicable and incommunicable attributes. The communicable attributes put in man are finite qualities, God has holiness in His nature (perfect no flaws in any part). Man like his creator had holiness in his original state in the garden.

Man having been created in His likeness we have the ability to think, gather knowledge, we have rationality logic, we have communication skills using language, we have feelings and emotions such as love. We are able to hear and see.

God is unlimited in knowledge, he knows all things. Man is limited in his knowledge and needs to learn. God is present everywhere. Man is confined to one place at a time. God’s Creative abilities are almighty and unlimited, He is able to do all things, man is cannot. God the creator of all things man cannot create from nothing but can only use what materials are already there.

 

[evanman]

God may reflect Himself in us or represent Himself in us, but this is NOT about reproduction.

Jesus is the ONLY begotten of the Father--we are ADOPTED!