What if Eve was on her own?

[Ruben]

What might have happened if Adam had refused to follow Eve into ‘disobedience’? Would God have quietly removed Eve and all the memories of her from Adam’s brain and then replace her with a better model? If this were the case then that would make God a manipulator of truth at the least and a dictator at most.

If Adam had refused and there was no ‘cover-up’ then how would history have viewed Adam? Would he not have been considered a coward for deserting his mate in her fate? Maybe Adam joined his beloved mate because love for her would not allow him to do anything else.

Ever considered that Jesus joined His creation in their plight rather than desert them?

 

[Rob]

What might have happened if Adam had refused to follow Eve into ‘disobedience’? Would God have quietly removed Eve and all the memories of her from Adam’s brain and then replace her with a better model? If this were the case then that would make God a manipulator of truth at the least and a dictator at most.

If Adam had refused and there was no ‘cover-up’ then how would history have viewed Adam? Would he not have been considered a coward for deserting his mate in her fate? Maybe Adam joined his beloved mate because love for her would not allow him to do anything else.

Ever considered that Jesus joined His creation in their plight rather than desert them?

My grandfather used to always say, "If a bullfrog had wings it wouldn't hit it's butt on the ground every time it hopped." Adam had already messed up by allowing Eve to fall into temptation, as he should have protected her from Satan's lies. I have to assume that if Eve had been the only one to disobey God though, that God wouldn't have erased Eve from Adam's mind as Adam would have known that whatever punishment God gave to Eve it was just and well deserved for disobeying God.

If Adam had refused and not fallen into sin then history would probably be much different and I seriously doubt any man would be considered a coward for having enough faith to follow God's instructions.

 

[Ruben]

Why are all you so called christians so bent on God having a need for a blood fest???? Ever considered the possiblility that you just might be wrong and that God is Love rather than revenge?

If God requires a blood sacrifice then He is obviously controlled by a force higher than Himself.

It was called the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, all I get from you people is evil, an evil God that has to get His pound of flesh. That is just plain sick!!!

 

[Relic]

Why are all you so called christians so bent on God having a need for a blood fest???? Ever considered the possiblility that you just might be wrong and that God is Love rather than revenge?

If God requires a blood sacrifice then He is obviously controlled by a force higher than Himself.

It was called the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, all I get from you people is evil, an evil God that has to get His pound of flesh. That is just plain sick!!!

Are you trying to rush the hand of God, the process of transformation? ... Don't you think that God takes what man did and transforms it in his own time, in his own way?

The process of transformation is not up to you to judge. This Good and Evil... Humans tasted evil when they partook of that tree. Right then and there they disobeyed the precautionary measure God had for them, God tried to protect them from the evil side of existence. Remember, there IS good and evil. Without one there is no comprehension of the other. Think about that! But noooo, the humans allowed themselves to be "thoughtless" and they bought into the lie of Satan. They just had to listen to Satan and eat of the evil off of that tree, didn't they. :-? Who are you to say that God cannot have redemptive means for man to atone for their sins through blood? It makes sense to me.... Man shed the blood, so God uses that blood as an example to man.

Sorry if the process, the transformation was too slow for you.... God gives us His Holy word to be guided by, but man just wants to do it his own way doesn't he?
Finally, God gives us a once and for all final sacrifice to atone for that blood shed. No more shedding of blood! The hand of God IS at Work, but in the instances of the shedding of blood, you just don't see how God is using a process for perfecting us, do you? It's all in His own due time.

Jesus put a stop to all that blood shed, He was and is the last and final sacrifice! Jesus is our atonement for sin, our redeemer!

If you don't see the order of transformation taking place then what are you seeing when you study the bible? If you see the destruction and the hate of man in it, you are correct, but are you seeing the hand of God at work in the midst of man's own sins. The redemption, the salvation, the mercy, His grace. God provides in His own timing. God has patience with all sinners, who are, in his eyes, babies run amuck. God is not going to make us all robots. He gives us all our own ability to choose. And His timing and plan are not for you to say the shedding of blood has nothing to do with it. Man shed blood, God redeems him from that blood shed by giving us the final sacrifice. so as to not have to shed blood of man any longer. Jesus Christ is our last and final sacrifice.

Study the significance of the blood as it goes from beginning to end in the scriptures. You will notice that Cain shed the blood of Able... the process of atonement for that blood shed was a long one indeed and lasted many thousands of years. Remember, a day for the Lord God is not like a day for us. What does it take for man to finally understand how God works through man for His glory to manifest? It's a work in progress. We are not the snap of a finger. We are in time and space, we are in the material and God is working through all that to better us as His own children of God. Anti-Christ will not participate in the transformation. Hence the shedding of blood still continues in wars and murders of those who are not fixed on the Holy Spirit of our redeemer Christ Jesus.
Jesus is that last of all that blood shed for those who accept him. The ones who don't are the ones who are still into the shedding of blood.

History.... is like the blink of an eye.... God's timing is not ours to take for granted. It is not for you to push and make haste about what the blood was and is all about.

.

 

[Ruben]

Relic;

"God's timing is not ours to take for granted"

I agree totally, it is God's time table not ours.

"God has patience with all sinners, who are, in his eyes, babies run amuck."

This is interesting. Are you saying that we, as adults, when compared to God's stature, as Creator, are the equivalent of 'babies' in terms of our abilities to save ourselves, earn our own salvation?

 

[Lewis]

Good post Relic.

 

[Vic C.]

Why are all you so called christians so bent on God having a need for a blood fest???? Ever considered the possiblility that you just might be wrong and that God is Love rather than revenge?

If God requires a blood sacrifice then He is obviously controlled by a force higher than Himself.

It was called the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, all I get from you people is evil, an evil God that has to get His pound of flesh. That is just plain sick!!!

Please try and take it down a notch... thanks.

 

[mutzrein]

Relic;

"God's timing is not ours to take for granted"

I agree totally, it is God's time table not ours.

"God has patience with all sinners, who are, in his eyes, babies run amuck."

This is interesting. Are you saying that we, as adults, when compared to God's stature, as Creator, are the equivalent of 'babies' in terms of our abilities to save ourselves, earn our own salvation?

Ruben

None of us can earn salvation. It is a gift of God. We don't work or 'sacrifice' to gain it. Christ was sacrificed once and for all those who were to become His children. As his children, we are called to walk by faith which is a walk of obedience - and that is all that was ever desired of us by God right from Adam to this day.

 

[Relic]

.

Thank you mutzrein.

Ruben, We don't earn our salvation. I wonder where you are coming from. I am not that familiar with your postings. I'll have to check it out.

God Bless you.

.

 

[Ruben]

You did not answer my question. Is man's relation to his Creator equated with an infant to their adult parent?

Eve was a victim of deception. She was duped into disobedience just like a small innocent child is tricked into helping look for a stranger's lost puppy.

If we could set the Bible aside for just a moment and use the God given sense that we have then maybe it would be possible to recognize that the controversy is between God and Satan, not God and man. Our world just happens to be the proving ground in the struggle to establish TRUTH.

The question of the guilt or innocence of mankind originated with the Accuser. He seduced Eve into taking of the fruit with half truth promises. When she did as he bid her he then turned her act into accusation by pointing our that she not trusted God.

I still don't see how you people can view God as a being that demands a blood sacrifice for disobedience. If obedience is not render through conviction and love for God then it is a lie. No amount of fear mongering will ever win the heart over of anyone.

 

[Solo]

You did not answer my question. Is man's relation to his Creator equated with an infant to their adult parent?

Eve was a victim of deception. She was duped into disobedience just like a small innocent child is tricked into helping look for a stranger's lost puppy.

If we could set the Bible aside for just a moment and use the God given sense that we have then maybe it would be possible to recognize that the controversy is between God and Satan, not God and man. Our world just happens to be the proving ground in the struggle to establish TRUTH.

The question of the guilt or innocence of mankind originated with the Accuser. He seduced Eve into taking of the fruit with half truth promises. When she did as he bid her he then turned her act into accusation by pointing our that she not trusted God.

I still don't see how you people can view God as a being that demands a blood sacrifice for disobedience. If obedience is not render through conviction and love for God then it is a lie. No amount of fear mongering will ever win the heart over of anyone.

You would have been duped in the garden with Eve since you find it difficult to believe God. God said that in the day that they ate from the tree of knowlege of good and evil, they would die. The wages of sin is death. The devil tempted Eve and told her that they would not die if they ate from that tree, but only that God knew that they would become as God when they did. Eve did not believe God, but believed the devil. You also do not believe God, you believe the devil.

 

[Ruben]

Does this mean that I must pray to you and God? You seem so sure in your determination of my beliefs? Pass judgment on what you can't see or don't know and keep on keeping on, never let any light penetrate the beliefs. Somehow it is not too comforting to know that God is in favor of ignorance over truth.

Do you believe that you have the TRUTH signed, sealed, and delivered. Isn't it suspect that everything in our world is and has always been at the mercy of evil yet somehow the Holy Scriptures have come though the centuries untouched, unaltered in script and meaning. Now that takes a lot of faith.

If we love our brothers and sisters of the world as Christ then how is it that we find justice in the pain and suffering of others who dare to believe in a god that is not in keeping with ours? I should think compassion would be a more fitting emotion since their plight in the end is to suffer and/or die for ever and ever. I just don't feel like celebrating the deception and suffering of others.

I have yet to meet an individual that is wholly without some measure of worth to someone. Because we don't know these individuals it is easy to put fitting labels on them and dehumanize an entire group, race, or country. 'Sinner' is a favorite label we all like to throw around. It is so nice to pigeonhole people so we can justify our own prejustices. I cannot see where any one life on this earth is of greater worth than any other, can you?

 

[Solo]

Does this mean that I must pray to you and God? You seem so sure in your determination of my beliefs? Pass judgment on what you can't see or don't know and keep on keeping on, never let any light penetrate the beliefs. Somehow it is not too comforting to know that God is in favor of ignorance over truth.

Do you believe that you have the TRUTH signed, sealed, and delivered. Isn't it suspect that everything in our world is and has always been at the mercy of evil yet somehow the Holy Scriptures have come though the centuries untouched, unaltered in script and meaning. Now that takes a lot of faith.

If we love our brothers and sisters of the world as Christ then how is it that we find justice in the pain and suffering of others who dare to believe in a god that is not in keeping with ours? I should think compassion would be a more fitting emotion since their plight in the end is to suffer and/or die for ever and ever. I just don't feel like celebrating the deception and suffering of others.

I have yet to meet an individual that is wholly without some measure of worth to someone. Because we don't know these individuals it is easy to put fitting labels on them and dehumanize an entire group, race, or country. 'Sinner' is a favorite label we all like to throw around. It is so nice to pigeonhole people so we can justify our own prejustices. I cannot see where any one life on this earth is of greater worth than any other, can you?

I am sure of the Word of God and the truths contained therein. It would behove you to appropriate the faith of a child in the realm of believing God, and then build your house on the foundation of faith in Jesus Christ in line with the truths of the Word of God.

According to the Word of God all are sinners, and all need a savior. Those that refuse to preach and/or live the true gospel of Jesus Christ, have no more love for individuals than the devil himself; for the final destiny of those who reject the gospel of Jesus Christ are condemned already.

Don't perform the ridiculous task of praying to me, as I am only a sinner saved by grace through Jesus Christ, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. You might consider accepting the words that I post that are in alignment with the Word of God however, for it is for your benefit and others whom I share the truth with. The Word of God is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Timothy 4:2

 

[Ruben]

The Bible is the only tangible I have ever found that gives hope. I am sure of the Word of God as well, except I cannot help but recognize that there is a contrast between the God the Israelites dealt with in the wilderness and the depiction of Christ.

Which is it, a God that demands retribution or a Christ that is advocating forgiving others 70 times 7 or to turn the other cheek to be smacked again.

I don't want to shake anyones faith but I really would like to find some likeminded folks that are not afraid to ask questions.

 

[mutzrein]

The Bible is the only tangible I have ever found that gives hope. I am sure of the Word of God as well, except I cannot help but recognize that there is a contrast between the God the Israelites dealt with in the wilderness and the depiction of Christ.

Which is it, a God that demands retribution or a Christ that is advocating forgiving others 70 times 7 or to turn the other cheek to be smacked again.

I don't want to shake anyones faith but I really would like to find some likeminded folks that are not afraid to ask questions.

I like your questions Ruben. They have merit. Is there anything I have said that you have issue with?

 

[Ruben]

mutzrein;

I think a lot of serious seekers are put off by the absolute command that obedience to God is not negotiable without having much more than a threat that if we don't obey then God will cause or allow for us to perish.

That we obey is essential but what motivates us to follow God's rules is of a greater importance than the odedience itself.

If odebience is rendered as a result of being afraid of pain or death then to obey is little more than an act of self-preservation. Humanity needs more to a relationship with their Creator than brokering a deal that allows us to continue to live.

It is my position that we have yet to see the whole truth, the real Jesus in an untrammeled view of His Righteousness and His love for fallen man.

It is then that we can obey because we have a greater understanding of what the Godhead has gone through just for us. Then we will obey because our desires are to please our Creator above all else.

This is a love based idea. Most of what I have encountered is more of a pandering to God so that He does not take away the only real thing we have, life and loved ones. Ruben

 

[mutzrein]

Ruben

Thankyou for your response. I see where you are coming from. I will PM you.

The Lord bless you