Bible Study What is election ?

[beloved57]

election is the sole cause and fountain of all our salvation :

Rom 9:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

1 pet 1

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.


2 thess 2:

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

eph 1:

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2 tim 1:

8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Is unconditional sovereign eternal election a Foundational gospel truth in light of the above scriptures ? I say most definitly..

 

[beloved57]

The gospel of Jesus christ is the facts that christ died for the sins of the elect that is all those given to him by the father..

1cor 15:

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

our sins are those of the seed of david or the seed of abraham..
rom 1:

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

heb 2

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Both Abe and David are types of the elect who God had chosen and these are they christ Identify with in his incarnation and it is those who are of this seed who he dies for..and who paul has reference to in the gospel our sins..in 1 cor 15..

He is not , I repeat, not talking about everyones sin in the world but the elect seed..

 

[Robert Cragg]

There is other meanings of the elect in Isaiah 65:-22 Is refering to the childen of Isreal the word
elect in this case means chosen people.
In Matthew 24: 32 The elect actually refers to us as his Church.
I hope did not bother you.
Rob

 

[beloved57]

There is other meanings of the elect in Isaiah 65:-22 Is refering to the childen of Isreal the word
elect in this case means chosen people.
In Matthew 24: 32 The elect actually refers to us as his Church.
I hope did not bother you.
Rob

Hi rob thanks for your response..So you believe God has chosen certain people ?

 

[Drew]

election is the sole cause and fountain of all our salvation :

Rom 9:

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Romans 9 has absolutely nothing to do with the election of individual persons to salvation or to loss. Paul is talking about the election of national Israel here to serve a specific purpose in the redemptive plan of God. The case that this is about Israel is, in my opinion, a slam dunk. I am more than happy to make it if anyone wants.

 

[n2thelight]

To understand you have to understand the plan of God.
Im gonna give a condensed view of what I've learned,and what I believe.

In the beginning God created the Heavens and the earth.this happened millions of years ago,God also created all souls at the same time,in which He made the earth for us,and we all shouted for joy.

It was during this time which I will refer to as the first Heaven and earth age,that satan decided that he wanted to be above God,so we can say he attempted a coup,Now we all know that this attempt failed,and this is when satan was sentenced to death,which is why he is known as the son of perdition because he is the only one by name who is thus sentenced.Now if you are like me the question should be why did our Father not just execute that judgment and get everything back to normal.

The answer to that question leads me to the answer of predestination.It was not enough that satan attempted his overthrough but he convinced a lot of God's children to follow him,so had our father executed judgment He would have had to also destroy all the souls that satan convinced to join him.Now think of yourself as a parent could you do that to some of your children if you could come up with an alternative,dont think I could have.So what God did was, He destroyed that first earth age which is how the earth became,( not was)void and without form.All souls were returned to heaven,now even though satan had a lot of followers God also had alot that stood with Him and still some that were just indifferent,Now the souls that stood with God is the answer to your question,these souls are known as the elect.Just as satan disproved himself these souls proved themselves,God knew that He could count on them so in His plan,which was to have all souls born of woman with no remembrance of what happened during that first age,He chose them to help fullfill His plan.

I will use Paul as example dont you ever wonder why Paul was called to God I mean he at that time was a persecuter of the church,well that is your answer Paul stood with God then, in which he was preordained to carry out a certain part of our Fathers plan.That is also how God is able to say I knew you before you were in your mothers womb,because He literally did.

Hope this has helped you out
I am not up for a debate but will gladly answer any questions.

 

[beloved57]

one love says

and this is when satan was sentenced to death,which is why he is known as the son of perdition because he is the only one by name who is thus sentenced

what about judas ?

jn 17 12

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[Bick]

Hi Onelove. After reading your post, my conclusion is it is derived from your imagination without Scriptural affirmation.

Good point, beloved57, Jesus is referring to Judas Iscariot in John 17:12, calling him 'the son of perdition.' AV.

From Young's Concordance, 'perdition' means 'loss, destruction.' So, Judas could be called 'the son of destruction.'

'Perdition' in the AV, is used eight times:

John 17:12; Phil. 1:28 "..is to them as evident token of perdition (destruction);
2 Thes 2:3 "..man of sin to be revealed, the son of perdition.." (this would be the anti-Christ);
1 Tim. 6:9 "...that plunge men into ruin and destruction.." NIV
Heb. 10:39 "But we are not of them who draw back into perdition; but of them that believe.." AV
2 Pet. 3:7 "..the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men." NIV.
Rev. 17:8 "The beast...will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction (this is the anti-Christ)." NIV.
Rev. 17:11 "He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction (the anti-Christ). NIV.
Parentheses mine.

 

[Bick]

The gospel of Jesus christ is the facts that christ died for the sins of the elect that is all those given to him by the father..

1cor 15:

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

our sins are those of the seed of david or the seed of abraham..
rom 1:

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

heb 2

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Both Abe and David are types of the elect who God had chosen and these are they christ Identify with in his incarnation and it is those who are of this seed who he dies for..and who paul has reference to in the gospel our sins..in 1 cor 15..

He is not , I repeat, not talking about everyones sin in the world but the elect seed..

MY RESPONSE TO: "]The gospel of Jesus christ is the facts that christ died for the sins of the elect that is all those given to him by the father.."

That being true?, help me understand these verses:

Rom. 5:15 "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life to all men." NIV

2 Cor. 5:18,19 "..all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..."

1 Tim. 2:3,4 "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." AV.

1 Tim. 4:10 "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the [sins of] the whole world."

Where in the Scriptures do you find that our sins are those of the seed of David and Abraham?
I read in Rom. 5:14ff that it is by one man, Adam, that sin entered the world, and through sin, death. Our sins are our own sins. We sin because we have inheirited the sin nature from Adam.

I disagree with your interpretation of 1 Cor. chapt. 15.

 

[beloved57]

The gospel of Jesus christ is the facts that christ died for the sins of the elect that is all those given to him by the father..

1cor 15:

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

our sins are those of the seed of david or the seed of abraham..
rom 1:

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

heb 2

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Both Abe and David are types of the elect who God had chosen and these are they christ Identify with in his incarnation and it is those who are of this seed who he dies for..and who paul has reference to in the gospel our sins..in 1 cor 15..

He is not , I repeat, not talking about everyones sin in the world but the elect seed..

MY RESPONSE TO: "]The gospel of Jesus christ is the facts that christ died for the sins of the elect that is all those given to him by the father.."

That being true?, help me understand these verses:

Rom. 5:15 "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life to all men." NIV

2 Cor. 5:18,19 "..all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them..."

1 Tim. 2:3,4 "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." AV.

1 Tim. 4:10 "...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

1 John 2:2 "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the [sins of] the whole world."

Where in the Scriptures do you find that our sins are those of the seed of David and Abraham?
I read in Rom. 5:14ff that it is by one man, Adam, that sin entered the world, and through sin, death. Our sins are our own sins. We sin because we have inheirited the sin nature from Adam.

I disagree with your interpretation of 1 Cor. chapt. 15.

To make it simple all the verses refer to the elect of God..
In fact what folk dont realize is that only the elect fell in adam the non elect the seed of satan was included in adam after the fall where as the elect were in adam before the fall so the romans passages talking about them that fell in adam # 1 well they and only they will be saved by adam # 2.

This gets trickey but hear me out..The elect were in the # 2nd adam christ before the 1st adam, but there[ physical life] was manifested first in the 1 st adam but our spiritual life just as sure as our physical life was manifested so shall be our spiritual life..thats why peter said we the elect were born by the word of God..

1 pet 1

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

As the elect were of the physical seed of adam so we are of the spiritual seed of christ, and therefore we are born of word of promise just as Isaasc was, he was born as a result of Gods word of promise so the elect..

gal 4


28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

In other words isaac birth was a result of Gods promise to sarah and abraham and not their natural ability..so it is with the elect..

 

[Bick]

Hi beloved57. A word study of "elect" is informative:

Israel is God's elect (bachir--Heb.):
Isa. 42:1 "..my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect.." Also 45:4. 9; 65:9 and 65:22.

Israel is God's chosen (bachir--Heb.):
Deut. 7:6 Speaking of the children of Israel, "The Lord your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession." See also Deut.14:2; Psa 33:12; Isa 41:8,9; and Ezek 19:5.

In my opinion, Jesus is refering to the believing remnant of Israel as "the elect" in Matt. 24:22 and Mark 13:20:
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." See also Matt. 24:24, 31; Mark 13:22, 27; Luke 18:7.

THE CHURCH/BODY OF CHRIST:
Certainly, the body of Christ is a special called out group. Paul, as our apostle and teacher, instructs us of the mysteries (secrets) revealed to him.
Indeed, we are God's elect; a different body than Israel, if you please, but both to accomplish God's plans as His servants: the church/body now and in the heavenlies; Believing Israel during the coming ages on the earth, until all enemies are put under Christ's feet (1 Cor. 15:22-28).

 

[beloved57]

bick says

In my opinion, Jesus is refering to the believing remnant of Israel as "the elect" in Matt. 24:22 and Mark 13:20:
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." See also Matt. 24:24, 31; Mark 13:22, 27; Luke 18:7.

hi bick Your opinion is wrong...the elect in those verses are going to be gathered from the four corners not just from israel , besides israel is no longer chosen covenant people..


THE CHURCH/BODY OF CHRIST:
Certainly, the body of Christ is a special called out group. Paul, as our apostle and teacher, instructs us of the mysteries (secrets) revealed to him.
Indeed, we are God's elect; a different body than Israel, if you please, but both to accomplish God's plans as His servants: the church/body now and in the heavenlies; Believing Israel during the coming ages on the earth, until all enemies are put under Christ's feet (1 Cor. 15:22-28).

We are all one the elect jews and gentiles..that was part of the mysery hidden from the sons of men..

eph 3

3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

I believe that God draws a line between saved and not saved. The saved folks are the elect.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Biblereader]

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God isn't the one to blame if you don't get into Heaven for all eternity.
You are.

Yes, there is a line between the saved and the unsaved, and the unsaved can cross over and BE saved any time they choose.
It is wickedness to blame God, and pure blasphemy.

 

[beloved57]

biblere

but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Could you explain who is the usward peter is referring to ?

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

biblere

but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Could you explain who is the usward peter is referring to ?

May I?
In this context, it is those of us who are waiting for His return. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.

 

[beloved57]

gabby says

May I?
In this context, it is those of us who are waiting for His return. And waiting. And waiting. And waiting.

vauge answer , isnt there more that can be exegeted ? :roll:

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

vauge answer , isnt there more that can be exegeted ? :roll:

I checked some other translations. I think that the NLT makes that verse a little bit clearer. The language is a bit more modern.
In short, the questions that Peter is addressing here is "What is taking so long? When is He coming back?" To which Peter is replying that the Lord is waiting until everyone that is going to be saved, does so.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord isn't really being slow about his promise to return, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to perish, so he is giving more time for everyone to repent.

So, those of us whom are already saved and eager to go home, are, at times, like children in the back seat asking "Are we there yet?" It is with verses like this that the Lord reminds us that there are still people that we need to reach, and that we must be about the Fathers business. And wait.

 

[mondar]

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (American Standard Version)
American Standard Version (ASV)
Copyright © 1901 Public Domain
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

beloved57,
It cannot be contested that the biblical definition of election includes the fact that God chooses some to salvation. While I will freely admit that certain passages speak of other choices of God, when it comes to our salvation, we chose God only because he chose us to choose him. The passage in 2 Thes 2:13 connects the concept of salvation with the concept of Gods choice.

Salvation is totally by Grace alone, through faith alone, by Christs shed blood alone.

I just wanted to express my agreement. I rarely visit this part of the forum.

 

[beloved57]

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (American Standard Version)
American Standard Version (ASV)
Copyright © 1901 Public Domain
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, for that God chose you from the beginning unto salvation in sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

beloved57,
It cannot be contested that the biblical definition of election includes the fact that God chooses some to salvation. While I will freely admit that certain passages speak of other choices of God, when it comes to our salvation, we chose God only because he chose us to choose him. The passage in 2 Thes 2:13 connects the concept of salvation with the concept of Gods choice.

Salvation is totally by Grace alone, through faith alone, by Christs shed blood alone.

I just wanted to express my agreement. I rarely visit this part of the forum.

Hi there ,

Glad you responded , so do you believe that God ordained the non elect, those he did not choose, to hell ?