What is Orthodox Christianity?

[Riven]

What do they believe? Thanks for your time.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good question!

 

[Free]

What do they believe? Thanks for your time.

It depends on what you mean. There are the Eastern Orthodox churches—Russian, Greek, etc.—who have some of their own distinct beliefs and forms of worship. And there is historic, orthodox Christianity, which refers to those beliefs and practices that all Christians have generally held from the beginning, regardless of church affiliation; those things that define what Christianity is.

For the purpose of this forum, it’s the former—Eastern Orthodox as opposed to Catholic, Coptic, Anglican, or Protestant.

 

[GodsGrace]

It depends on what you mean. There are the Eastern Orthodox churches—Russian, Greek, etc.—who have some of their own distinct beliefs and forms of worship. And there is historic, orthodox Christianity, which refers to those beliefs and practices that all Christians have generally held from the beginning, regardless of church affiliation; those things that define what Christianity is.

For the purpose of this forum, it’s the former—Eastern Orthodox as opposed to Catholic, Coptic, Anglican, or Protestant.

Should there title be changed??

 

[Riven]

It depends on what you mean. There are the Eastern Orthodox churches—Russian, Greek, etc.—who have some of their own distinct beliefs and forms of worship. And there is historic, orthodox Christianity, which refers to those beliefs and practices that all Christians have generally held from the beginning, regardless of church affiliation; those things that define what Christianity is.

For the purpose of this forum, it’s the former—Eastern Orthodox as opposed to Catholic, Coptic, Anglican, or Protestant.

I see. I had the eastern orthodox in mind when making the thread. I thought that's all there was to orthodox Christianity.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Orthodox claim to be the original church.
The CC claims to be the original church.

The CC depends more on teaching.
The OC depends more on spirituality.

They're a good church.
As long as you don't mind standing for Mass for at least 2 hours!
Sitting only for the old, infirmed, etc.

I don't think I could do that.
lol

And how they baptize babies is pretty weird too.
Can't post images here.
Look it up.

Riven

 

[Randy]

The Orthodox claim to be the original church.
The CC claims to be the original church.

The CC depends more on teaching.
The OC depends more on spirituality.

They're a good church.
As long as you don't mind standing for Mass for at least 2 hours!
Sitting only for the old, infirmed, etc.

I don't think I could do that.
lol

And how they baptize babies is pretty weird too.
Can't post images here.
Look it up.

Riven

I think the "primary" dispute is Romes's claim to a universal Papal Supremacy. The Eastern Orthodox views this as a deviation from the original conclusions of the seven ecumenical councils.

The word Orthodox signifies right believing. Easten Orthodox believes they have faithfully preserved without deviation faithfully followed the beliefs and practices as defined by the first seven ecumenical councils and the teachings of the Apostles.

I am sure you are aware of the conflict known as the Filioque Controversy inserted into the Nicene creed during the 6th century. The Eastern Orthodox rejects this deviation, both in meaning and the Catholic Church's authority to do so alone as a universal belief. Eastern Christians believe both the Spirit and the Son have their origin in the Father.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think the "primary" dispute is Romes's claim to a universal Papal Supremacy. The Eastern Orthodox views this as a deviation from the original conclusions of the seven ecumenical councils.

I'd have to agree. Seems like the straw that broke the camel's back may have the the Filioque, but certainly the authority of having only one Pope instead of individual Bishops for different regions might have been the most important factor, if I remember correctly.

The word Orthodox signifies right believing.

Ha! You made me have to look it up.
Orthodox means the following:

adjective

1. 1.
   following or conforming to the traditional or generally accepted rules or beliefs of a religion, philosophy, or practice.
   "Burke's views were orthodox in his time"
   
   
   I always believed it meant the above.
   I don't think that you're accepting that it means "right believing" has anything to do with this toipic....
   
   
   

Easten Orthodox believes they have faithfully preserved without deviation faithfully followed the beliefs and practices as defined by the first seven ecumenical councils and the teachings of the Apostles.

I am sure you are aware of the conflict known as the Filioque Controversy inserted into the Nicene creed during the 6th century. The Eastern Orthodox rejects this deviation, both in meaning and the Catholic Church's authority to do so alone as a universal belief. Eastern Christians believe both the Spirit and the Son have their origin in the Father.

Well, actually, I'd have to agree.
Catholics teach that the Holy Spirit is like the love IN PERSON between the Father and the Son.

I dislike how we stretch ideas to make them suit our needs.

If you asked me which church remained more true....maybe I'd have to go with the Orthodox.

I DO however, believe there is a strong need for a Pope....a head, a leader, the top of the line.
I once had started a thread asking if perhaps we Protestants would not do well to have a Pope...
but we can't even seem to agree on doctrine.

I envy both the CC and the Orthodox Church for this reason.

I know that the Orthodox disagree with the CC on some doctrine too,,,,but I really don't know too much about this.
The only perfect CHURCH is US....The Church....the Body of Christ.

All others have problems.

 

[Randy]

I'd have to agree. Seems like the straw that broke the camel's back may have the the Filioque, but certainly the authority of having only one Pope instead of individual Bishops for different regions might have been the most important factor, if I remember correctly.


Ha! You made me have to look it up.
Orthodox means the following:

adjective

1. 1.
   following or conforming to the traditional or generally accepted rules or beliefs of a religion, philosophy, or practice.
   "Burke's views were orthodox in his time"
   
   
   I always believed it meant the above.
   I don't think that you're accepting that it means "right believing" has anything to do with this toipic....
   
   

Well, actually, I'd have to agree.
Catholics teach that the Holy Spirit is like the love IN PERSON between the Father and the Son.

I dislike how we stretch ideas to make them suit our needs.

If you asked me which church remained more true....maybe I'd have to go with the Orthodox.

I DO however, believe there is a strong need for a Pope....a head, a leader, the top of the line.
I once had started a thread asking if perhaps we Protestants would not do well to have a Pope...
but we can't even seem to agree on doctrine.

I envy both the CC and the Orthodox Church for this reason.

I know that the Orthodox disagree with the CC on some doctrine too,,,,but I really don't know too much about this.
The only perfect CHURCH is US....The Church....the Body of Christ.

All others have problems.

Jesus rebuked certain traditions in His day with scripture to those who sat in Moses seat.

I think after the advent of the NT writings and translations of such that those writings can be understood and interpreted by the individual believer and is sufficient on its own to be the final authority in Christian doctrine. That at the very least is a concept of checks and balances to any introduced doctrine or tradition.

Eastern Orthodoxy would hold
Orthodoxy argues that the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teachings in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance.

If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.

I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,

You have to search the scriptures to see if a taught doctrine is true with sound reasoning. We debate with scripture. I do not hold that tradition has equal value with scripture. The teachings of doctrine through the church not individuals is sound though.

I don't believe any single man in this day is or can be trusted to be the vicar of Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus rebuked certain traditions in His day with scripture to those who sat in Moses seat.

Right. We are also told to hold on to our Traditions:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

I think after the advent of the NT writings and translations of such that those writings can be understood and interpreted by the individual believer and is sufficient on its own to be the final authority in Christian doctrine. That at the very least is a concept of checks and balances to any introduced doctrine or tradition.

I don't agree.
If I believe one doctrine, and you believe a different doctrine,,,
HOW can we know who is correct?
We can't both be correct.

This is the problem with Protestantism....
Everyone gets to be their own theologian,
everyone gets to make up their own doctrine based on what they INDIVIDUALLY believe.

Have I said this before? Can't remember:
This means there is no TRUTH, but only opinions.

Eastern Orthodoxy would hold
Orthodoxy argues that the Holy Scriptures (as interpreted and defined by church teachings in the first seven ecumenical councils) along with Holy Tradition are of equal value and importance.

I can agree with that.

If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.

How come God tells different persons different theology?
Is there more than one God?

Why do we debate here, every day, ad infinitum, and about different subjects?

I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,

Well, the above is referring to the New Covenant.
The LAW will be in our hearts and not on stone...
that's what it means.
We will naturally know what God expects from us - morally.
The change will be INTERNAL and not external only...as when THE LAW was followed.

It certainly cannot mean that we each can know whatever we want to know.

You have to search the scriptures to see if a taught doctrine is true with sound reasoning. We debate with scripture. I do not hold that tradition has equal value with scripture. The teachings of doctrine through the church not individuals is sound though.

I think you're saying two opposing thoughts.
Could you rephrase?

I don't believe any single man in this day is or can be trusted to be the vicar of Christ.

Which man would that be?
Are you saying you think THE POPE makes up Catholic doctrine??
That would be incorrect, IF that's what you're saying.

 

[Randy]

Right. We are also told to hold on to our Traditions:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.




I don't agree.
If I believe one doctrine, and you believe a different doctrine,,,
HOW can we know who is correct?
We can't both be correct.

Thats between churches as well. You read the scripture to see if what you were taught is true.

This is the problem with Protestantism....
Everyone gets to be their own theologian,
everyone gets to make up their own doctrine based on what they INDIVIDUALLY believe.

I don't follow theologians.

Have I said this before? Can't remember:
This means there is no TRUTH, but only opinions.

What makes the Catholic opinions the truth?

I can agree with that.


How come God tells different persons different theology?

If you are given understanding from above it should be cohesive with the NT and nothing beyond what is already written.

Is there more than one God?

No

Why do we debate here, every day, ad infinitum, and about different subjects?

I don't know. For example, one might state the 2 witnesses in REV 11 are not two literal people. The testimony reads otherwise but I can't convince them. Etc. Etc.
I don't hold to purgatory, believe Mary consummated her marriage with Joseph after she gave birth to Jesus and had other children.
I pray to Jesus and the Father but not to saints.

Well, the above is referring to the New Covenant.
The LAW will be in our hearts and not on stone...
that's what it means.
We will naturally know what God expects from us - morally.
The change will be INTERNAL and not external only...as when THE LAW was followed.

It means you have the very presence of God dwelling in you. A new creation.

It certainly cannot mean that we each can know whatever we want to know.


I think you're saying two opposing thoughts.
Could you rephrase?


Which man would that be?

None in this day and age.

Are you saying you think THE POPE makes up Catholic doctrine??
That would be incorrect, IF that's what you're saying.

Isn't the Pope the Vicar of Christ in Catholic belief? He makes judgements. What is catholic was before the current Pope was born.
He's rocking that boat. Is he so naive so as to believe they are not engaging in forbidden sex acts?

Pope approves blessings for same-sex couples that must not resemble marriage​

It's clear to me Paul saw all the law as law and considered the law in judgments he made such as:
For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.” Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

 

[Randy]

1854? Really? I reject it.
Pope Pius IX proclaimed this doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on December 8, 1854.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thats between churches as well. You read the scripture to see if what you were taught is true.


I don't follow theologians.

I didn't say that.
I said that in Protestantism we each are our own theologian.
This is wrong.

What makes the Catholic opinions the truth?

The fact that they use writings from the Apostles,
writings from those that the Apostles taught.

Who do YOU think knows more what Jesus taught...those that came right after Him and the next generation,
or persons that are living 2,000 years later.

And keep in mind who compiled the bible in the 4th/5th century....
those that the Apostles taught which I'm referring to above.
It did not magically put itself together in one book.

If you are given understanding from above it should be cohesive with the NT and nothing beyond what is already written.

Right!
So why don't we all agree?
The Jews agree.
Muslims agree.
Why don't WE agree?

No

I don't know. For example, one might state the 2 witnesses in REV 11 are not two literal people. The testimony reads otherwise but I can't convince them. Etc. Etc.
I don't hold to purgatory, believe Mary consummated her marriage with Joseph after she gave birth to Jesus and had other children.
I pray to Jesus and the Father but not to saints.

There was no purgatory in the early church.
It was not taught to pray to saints.
There WERE NO saints in the early church in the same sense as they have now.

The fact of Mary having other children will never be 100% clear...
even some Protestant theologians believe it might be that Jesus was her only child.

It means you have the very presence of God dwelling in you. A new creation.

Agreed.

Isn't the Pope the Vicar of Christ in Catholic belief? He makes judgements. What is catholic was before the current Pope was born.
He's rocking that boat. Is he so naive so as to believe they are not engaging in forbidden sex acts?

Pope approves blessings for same-sex couples that must not resemble marriage​

It's clear to me Paul saw all the law as law and considered the law in judgments he made such as:
For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.” Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.

What the Pope has declared above is not even being followed by most Bishops.
He's trying to change a routine....not even a doctrine.
Actually, what he's doing is trying to incorporate a 3rd blessing besides the 2 the CC already practices.

This has not passed as doctrine.
And I agree with you that this Pope has been a mess for the CC.

If you're interested, you could learn about the magesterium.

 

[Randy]

I didn't say that.
I said that in Protestantism we each are our own theologian.
This is wrong.



The fact that they use writings from the Apostles,
writings from those that the Apostles taught.

Who do YOU think knows more what Jesus taught...those that came right after Him and the next generation,
or persons that are living 2,000 years later.

And keep in mind who compiled the bible in the 4th/5th century....
those that the Apostles taught which I'm referring to above.
It did not magically put itself together in one book.

Right!
So why don't we all agree?
The Jews agree.
Muslims agree.
Why don't WE agree?



There was no purgatory in the early church.
It was not taught to pray to saints.
There WERE NO saints in the early church in the same sense as they have now.

The fact of Mary having other children will never be 100% clear...
even some Protestant theologians believe it might be that Jesus was her only child.

That's where scripture would come into account for a judgment.
Mary was lawfully married.
Jesus had named brothers and unnamed sisters.

This was written:
When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

Agreed.


What the Pope has declared above is not even being followed by most Bishops.
He's trying to change a routine....not even a doctrine.
Actually, what he's doing is trying to incorporate a 3rd blessing besides the 2 the CC already practices.

This has not passed as doctrine.
And I agree with you that this Pope has been a mess for the CC.

If you're interested, you could learn about the magesterium.

This is found:
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

There are theologians pushing for protestant churches to allow same sex unions as well and some have and their have been lines drawn and splits made for that very reason.

I see all the law as law as well and considering the law.
I would state that forbidden sex acts in the law qualify for sexual immorality. It is a hard truth not a hard question.
The Father and Son are one. Jesus would not state otherwise.

When the world who does not know God pushes for something to be righteous that is forbidden by God take note.

 

[JLB]

Right. We are also told to hold on to our Traditions:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

Tradition means teaching.

Christians are to follow the teaching of Christ, handed down through His apostles.

 

[Eli1+]

What do they believe? Thanks for your time.

Orthodox Christianity are the direct followers of the apostiles in an unbroken chain.
They believe a lot of different things which are very different from Protestants.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's where scripture would come into account for a judgment.
Mary was lawfully married.
Jesus had named brothers and unnamed sisters.

This was written:
When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

This is found:
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

There are theologians pushing for protestant churches to allow same sex unions as well and some have and their have been lines drawn and splits made for that very reason.

I see all the law as law as well and considering the law.
I would state that forbidden sex acts in the law qualify for sexual immorality. It is a hard truth not a hard question.
The Father and Son are one. Jesus would not state otherwise.

When the world who does not know God pushes for something to be righteous that is forbidden by God take note.

I agree.
My point is always lost...
Guess I just can't explain myself properly.

 

[GodsGrace]

Tradition means teaching.

Christians are to follow the teaching of Christ, handed down through His apostles.

Tradition with a small t means teaching.
Catholics spell it with a capital T.
This means what you state above.

The teaching of Christ passed down through the Apostles.

Trouble is that there were heresies already being taught while even John himself was still alive.

There was no NT to refer to yet.
It was those that the Apostles taught and to carry on with the church Jesus wanted to create so as to visibly create His Kingdom on earth that had to be trusted.

Unfortunately the institutional church wandered far from what those first Christians taught.

But I do trust those first Christians.

The same ones that compiled our NT.

 

[LanaPodesta]

As long as you don't mind standing for Mass for at least 2 hours!

It's called Divine Liturgy, and yes, it is is long, but it doesn't feel like it! It's time for Communion before you know it!

Sitting is more common than some might have you believe...standing the entire time can come across as 'holier than thou' if others are sitting.

 

[LanaPodesta]

I envy both the CC and the Orthodox Church for this reason.

Come along to Divine Liturgy!