What is soul and what is spirit?

[mamre]

I have seen a lot of different interpretations of these terms and thought would be interesting to explore it a little bit in light of the scriptures.

In Genesis the scriptures stated that "...the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Gen. 2: 7
(emphasis added)

Therefore, according to Genesis, soul is a body of flesh and bones combined with the spirit that was given by the breath God breathed in Adam.

We know that spirits are real, and that human beings are made up of spirit also because in 1Peter the scriptures say that "...[Jesus] went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" 1Peter 3:19 So we know those spirits were of human beings because Peter says they were the ones that "were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah," 1Peter 3:20

In light of the above scriptures we have evidence that soul is not the same as spirit. As we can see that to be a living soul there needs to be a body and a spirit in it according to Genesis.

Some may say that breath of life is not spirit. Please, just look at 1Peter 3:19-20 and you see that human beings have spirits. Therefore, either the breath that God breathed into Adam's nostrils was a way to allow Adam's spirit enter his body and give him life or "breath of life" from God is an elegant metaphor to refer to the term spirit, or both. As we all know the spirit comes from God, as Hebrew says that He is "the Father of spirits,..." Hebrews 12:9

To summarize.

According to the Bible then:

Soul = spirit + body

So when the body can no longer live, the spirit lives the body.


Have a great day,
mamre

 

[Vic C.]

So when the body can no longer live, the spirit lives the body.

If you mean leaves and not lives, than I would have to agree.

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

In light of that verse, the Peter verse you quoted could take on a meaning other than how it's read in a literalistic fashion.

 

[mamre]

So when the body can no longer live, the spirit lives the body.

If you mean leaves and not lives, than I would have to agree.

Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

In light of that verse, the Peter verse you quoted could take on a meaning other than how it's read in a literalistic fashion.

Vic C.

You are right. I meant "leaves." When we die, the spirit that gives life to the body, leaves the physical body, as the scripture above indicates.

As for other meaning that you mention, I am not sure what you mean, but, since 1Peter indicates that spirits are individual entities, the meaning can only be that they go to a place which is part of God's Domain. Some go in state of expectation and anguish for what they have done in this life, others go to rest. Nevertheless, they return to God.

There are some people that say that the spirit goes to God literally, meaning they "re-integrate" as it were, into God's being, therefore loosing it's identity. However, 1Peter clearly shows they were spirits, and they were individuals when Jesus went and preached to them.

Since the spirit is an individual entity when it leaves the body it, therefore, continues to be conscious of their deeds. And it could not be otherwise as we will all be judged for our deeds. If we loose consciousness after dead, there is no way we can be aware of our deeds to be responsible for them, and be judged.

So, in light of 1 Peter and the fact that Jesus preached to spirits showing they are individuals, the scripture above cannot have another meaning other than returning to God in a sense of returning to His Domain, or returning to God's Home.

In that case, "the spirit returns to God who gave it" means that after we die, as spirits, we return home to God. This is similar to say, I am returning to my mom. When we say that, nobody would understand that I am reintegrating into my mom's body. We all understand that I am simply saying that I am going back to live or stay with mom again for some reason.


have a great day and thanks for the correction,
mamre

 

[veteran]

Rev 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
(KJV)

Rev 6:9
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
(KJV)

In the above examples of Greek psuche, Dr. Strong assigns the meaning of 'psuche' (soul in NT) as the animate principle only (like Hebrew nephesh), which would agree with the idea of Gen.2:7 about a flesh body joined with God's breath as a "living soul". But in these Revelation verses the meaning is obviously different, since those had already died in their flesh and were still being regarded as "souls" (especially those of Rev.6:9).

Instead he assigns Greek 'pneuma' to mean spirit, which is translated as ghost, life, spirit, or mind in the KJV. This has created a dilema in trying to understand just what part of us is the real us, our person or individual intellect.

But truly, Apostle Paul clears this confusion up in 1 Corinthians 15 in regards to what the resurrection is, and with what kind of body it is. Paul in that chapter rebukes those who don't believe in the resurrection, and goes so far to say that if there is no resurrection, then Christ is not raised and our sins not washed, and also there's no hope for the saints that are asleep.

Paul then gives a detailed description about two types of bodies, a natural body we have now that is of corruption, and a spiritual body we will have that is of incorruption. He labels one as "the image of the earthy", and the other as "the image of the heavenly", making it very plain.

And he reveals that as all men have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. In that he's defining just the idea of a body. But at 1 Cor.15:53, he first mentions the idea of another part of our being, with "this mortal" (thnetos - liable to die) and "immortality" (athanasia - deathlessness).

1 Cor 15:53
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(KJV)

This "corruptible" (phthartos - decayed, perishable) must put on "incorruption" (aphthrsia - incorruptibility), AND "this mortal" (thnetos - liable to die) must put on "immortality" (athanasia - deathlessness).

That's TWO changes he's talking about there that must happen to have eternal Life through Christ Jesus, not one. So if he was covering the idea of a corruptible body vs. a body of incorruption before, what's this mortal vs. immortality part he's covering?

That reveals there is also a type of body after flesh death, called a "spiritual body" by Paul. And it's in the body sense, like a house. It is an outward image also, just as our flesh body today is an outward image, but for what? That spiritual body is simply a heavenly house for our soul, our person. This reveals there exists two parts that make up our being in the heavenly also. It's just that the type of body or house is different.

That's why it's so difficult to try and assign a scientific like reasoning to definitions of Bible usage of words like spirit and soul. More than just the definitions of the Hebrew or Greek words has to be understood. In John 3:6 our Lord Jesus made a clear dividing line between that which is born of the flesh being flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit being spirit.

John 3:8
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(KJV)

In that He is speaking of the operation of The Holy Spirit, renewing our spirit.

John 3:5
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(KJV)

And in this 5th verse, He is also making a distinction between what is born of water vs. what is born of the Spirit (flesh vs spirit as in John 3:6). Again, that's showing TWO PARTS of our being, not just one part.

This is why at the end of Rev.20 the idea of the "dead" is used about souls standing before God's great white throne of judgment. We know they have to be resurrected in order to stand in judgment at that time. So why are they still called the "dead"? It's because even with a body of incorruption, the spiritual body, the soul or spirit inside it in the heavenly can still be in a 'dead' state. That's the "this mortal" idea Paul was talking about. Our Lord Jesus also showed this idea with flesh people alive walking around, but that were 'dead' inside, not renewed by The Holy Spirit. It is one's soul or spirit, whether we're in this earthy house, or in a heavenly house (heavenly body), our soul or spirit still must be born again.

 

[Vic C.]

have a great day and thanks for the correction,
mamre

No problem and thanks for expounding on the Peter verse.

 

[Thunderz7]

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe man is atriune being created in the image and likeness of triune GOD.
I believe the spirit and soul make up the heart of a man.

I see the spirit as GOD conscious,
the soul as self conscious,
the body as world conscious.

 

[mamre]

That reveals there is also a type of body after flesh death, called a "spiritual body" by Paul. And it's in the body sense, like a house. It is an outward image also, just as our flesh body today is an outward image, but for what? That spiritual body is simply a heavenly house for our soul, our person. This reveals there exists two parts that make up our being in the heavenly also. It's just that the type of body or house is different.

...

So why are they still called the "dead"? It's because even with a body of incorruption, the spiritual body, the soul or spirit inside it in the heavenly can still be in a 'dead' state. That's the "this mortal" idea Paul was talking about. Our Lord Jesus also showed this idea with flesh people alive walking around, but that were 'dead' inside, not renewed by The Holy Spirit. It is one's soul or spirit, whether we're in this earthy house, or in a heavenly house (heavenly body), our soul or spirit still must be born again.

Hi veteran,

I am not totally sure I understand all that you are trying to explain, but according to the scriptures here are some facts:

God created Adam with an immortal physical body.

Body + spirit = living soul (immortal soul initially)
[soul is not the same as a spirit]
Gen. 2:7

We know Adam's body was immortal because God would not create anything imperfect as no imperfection (including disobedience) can abide in His presence. So in the beginning Adam's body was an immortal, not a decaying (corruptible) body.

We know that also because the Lord told Adam that if he ate of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil he would die (become a decaying body) indicating he was immortal. Since Adam died only when he reached about 900 earthly years, it stands to reason the Lord meant he would become mortal.
Gen. 2:17

So, besides giving the knowledge to distinguish between good and evil, the fruit had the effect of turning his immortal physical body into a mortal physical body. In other words, a decaying body, susceptible to diseases, bacteria, aging; a corruptible body that would eventually, surely die. And since Adam had been given dominion (stewardship) over the whole creation, the earth and all that is in it became corruptible too.

By the above we learn two principles:

1. Adam became subject to a physical or temporal death, by aging, and returning to dust.

2. Adam suffered a spiritual death. This is because he was banned from the source of spiritual life (or true life), which is Father in Heaven. He became a natural man.

Now the mortal Adam had the chance to prove that he truly wanted to live with the Father. How he could prove? By the merits of the Lamb of God, who was prepared before the foundation of the world, Adam (and his posterity) could repented of his sins and obey all the commandments God gave him. By repenting and obeying, he eventually would live with God again because of the atonement.
"...The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1Cor. 15:45

So, with the atonement of Christ, Adam and his posterity have the chance to go back to the Father and have true life. How is this possible?

The sacrifice of Christ does two things:

1. It gives back an immortal body. By being the first to resurrect, Jesus gave to Adam and his posterity the gift to be resurrected to a non-decaying (incorruptible) physical body.

2. It gives back the spiritual life to Adam. That is available and possible through the atonement of Christ ONLY IF Adam and his posterity repent and obey God.

That way Adam can become an immortal living soul again in the presence of God (have true life). And so do all that repent e obey.

So, disobedience brought physical and spiritual death. (physically corruptible and a natural man [body]) 1Cor.2:14

But, obedience brings physical and spiritual life again through the merits of the atonement of Christ. (physically incorruptible and spiritual man [body])

Summarizing:

We all will be resurrected (have a non-decaying, immortal physical body), that is a universal gift. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." 1Cor. 15:22

But, not all of us will become a spiritual man (or have a spiritual body, or eternal body). ONLY those that repent and obey the Lord will be with God and, therefore, have a spiritual body. Clearly, spiritual here refers to having the Spirit of God, or abiding in His presence. In other words, have an eternal life, which is the type of life God and Christ have, which, in reality is THE true life. (That may be what you have meant in your post.)

If we read the scriptures closely, everything hinges on one thing: obedience. For:

By disobedience man came to exist mortally and naturally.

But, by obedience man can, immortally, come to exist spiritually (back to God's presence).


Have a great day,
mamre

 

[veteran]

mamre,

I understand what you're saying, and I agree how Adam was formed, and that his physical body was not setup to die. But we see even with our Lord's resurrected body that it was not the same after being transfigured, especially since He was able to appear in the midst of His disciples in a closed off room (John 20:19).

1 Cor 15:21-22
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(KJV)

That is not just pointing to believers on Christ being made alive through the resurrection. It includes the spiritually dead also, the unjust. Paul was speaking about the idea of an outward body with that, our outward image. As all born in the flesh die, which includes the wicked, that all must be applied to them being made alive by Christ's power also. The mistake is misapplying that statement to mean Christ's Salvation of eternal life. It's only about the idea of being resurrected, and there is a resurrection of the wicked also.

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
(KJV)

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
(KJV)

That's showing that at Christ's coming, all will be raised from the dead, not just those in Christ that believe. And in 1 Cor.15:51 Paul says we all shall be changed.

Those Biblical examples cause a direct conflict with the idea that only those who believe are resurrected at His coming.

These next verses are about the outer darkness, a place of separation outside the Holy City.

Luke 13:28
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
(KJV)

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
(KJV)

It's obvious then, that the "resurrection of damnation" is about the wicked being resurrected at Christ's coming also, but that they will be in a place of separation outside the Holy City. Within the Holy City is where our Lord Jesus and His elect will reign on earth from. And since they also are resurrected at Christ's coming like John 5:29 says, then what is the different condition they'll be in that is apart from Christ's Salvation? That's what I covered in my previous post, that different condition they'll be in, even though they will be in resurrected bodies also.

I think that's easy enough to understand, only that some have a hard time being able to accept it.

 

[mamre]

That is not just pointing to believers on Christ being made alive through the resurrection. It includes the spiritually dead also, the unjust. Paul was speaking about the idea of an outward body with that, our outward image. As all born in the flesh die, which includes the wicked, that all must be applied to them being made alive by Christ's power also. The mistake is misapplying that statement to mean Christ's Salvation of eternal life. It's only about the idea of being resurrected, and there is a resurrection of the wicked also.

Acts 24:15
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
(KJV)

You're totally right. According to the scriptures, as I have mentioned in my last post, physical resurrection is a universal gift given by Jesus. By being the first raised from the grave, he gave also power to all, just and unjust, to be physically resurrected. Some will resurrect to take a body of glory and others will to take a body of shame. But we all will have physical non-decaying bodies. That is, immortal bodies.

That's showing that at Christ's coming, all will be raised from the dead, not just those in Christ that believe. And in 1 Cor.15:51 Paul says we all shall be changed.

Those Biblical examples cause a direct conflict with the idea that only those who believe are resurrected at His coming.

However, we need to understand that there will be two resurrections. In other words, resurrection will occur mainly in two stages: There will be a resurrection of the righteous and the resurrection of the unrighteous. They don't occur at the same time. The righteous will resurrect in the morning of the first resurrection to reign with Christ. The unrighteous will resurrect later, in the second resurrection, for judgment and to receive their just punishment as stated in Revelations.
"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." Rev. 20: 6

Please notice that "second death" is not annihilation, or ceasing to exist. It would make no sense to cease to exist, as they need to pay for their injustice. To cease to exist would be unfair to those that overcame. Furthermore, since they are immortal (immortal, but wicked), they can't die. Therefore, second death can only mean be away from God, who is the only source of true life. So, some will have eternal life, but the rest will have eternal damnation (which is to not partake of the brightest of the glories, even the Glory of the Father).

Those Biblical examples cause a direct conflict with the idea that only those who believe are resurrected at His coming.

That is true, while immortality is a universal gift, eternal life is not. Eternal life is only obtained by following the example of Christ perfectly. And Christ said that few are those that find it. His atonement makes it possible for us to repent of our sins and obey every commandment from God. When Christ says follow me, that is what His is saying: obey as He obeyed the Father. He made it possible to repent and obey, through His sacrifice. And we may now obey every point as He did, IF we want to have eternal life.

If there is an eternal life after this world, than there must be other types of life. Paul mentions different types of glory. "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory." 1Cor.15:40,41

So, through the atonement of Christ, if we obey every commandment of God, we shall attain the highest of the glories, the Celestial glory. And that's what eternal life is, which is compared to the sun, the brightest of all just like Christ and His Father. Which means to inherit all that Father has. All the other glories are less than the Celestial, therefore, they are not eternal life.

have a great day,
mamre

 

[veteran]

You're totally right. According to the scriptures, as I have mentioned in my last post, physical resurrection is a universal gift given by Jesus. By being the first raised from the grave, he gave also power to all, just and unjust, to be physically resurrected. Some will resurrect to take a body of glory and others will to take a body of shame. But we all will have physical non-decaying bodies. That is, immortal bodies.

I agree that we all need The Saviour Jesus Christ, for only He can wash our sins away through His death on the cross, so those who believe on Him can be counted as perfect before The Father and have eternal life through Him. I've never denied any of that.

Paul uses 2 different Greek words for the idea of being changed from a body of corruption to a body of incorruption, and then 2 more Greek words from what is mortal to immortality. The spiritually dead only go through the first change at Christ's return. That's what John 5:29 shows, as also with the idea of the vail being removed from all nations per Isaiah 25:7.

Rev.20 mentions a "first resurrection" for those in Christ Jesus who reign with Him during the thousand years. That "first" ordinal number infers at least one more some time later, a second resurrection. But what TYPE of resurrection does that infer? That's the heart of the question.

Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
(KJV)

Rev.20:14-15 defines the "second death" as the casting of the wicked into the "lake of fire", along with the abode of hell and Satan. Ps.37 shows it is a destruction, being consumed and being no more. This is why the Greek name Apollyon is another title for the devil, because it means to perish or destroy fully. Ezekiel 28:18 reveals God will turn Satan to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all those who see him.

Many Christian brethren are going to be subject to the great falling away in the last days which Apostle Paul warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2, what he also called the "strong delusion". Our Lord Jesus will deny those five foolish virgins who also represent believers on Him, but that are deceived into ignorance by the antichrist in the last days, worshipping a false one in place of Jesus. The idea is those deceived brethren will think they are worshipping Christ with that first one coming that will be false. That's the concept of the "another Jesus" Paul was talking about in 2 Cor.11. It's about the false messiah our Lord warned of in Matt.24:23-28.

So will our Lord Jesus make those five foolish virgins of the "first resurrection"? And if not, will they also perish in the "lake of fire" with the wicked, hell, and Satan?

 

[Teach]

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe man is atriune being created in the image and likeness of triune GOD.
I believe the spirit and soul make up the heart of a man.

I see the spirit as GOD conscious,
the soul as self conscious,
the body as world conscious.

I agree 100%. This the correct interpretation.
Part of being created in the image of our triune God is that He has made us to be triune beings. No other being has been created that way.

Heb.(4:12) “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.â€

The Word of God itself is able to distinguish this. However maybe a better understanding can be found in the Old Testament Temple, which had three main areas: The OuterCourt, The InnerCourt and the Holy Place which also contained the Holy of Holies but was not considered a fourth part itself but more so as part of the Holy Place.

Jesus said that he would destroy the temple and that in 3 days he would raise one not made by the hands of man. Speaking about Himself and as we find out latter on speaking about us who are the temple of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus did die, providing the ultimate sacrifice, it is then that the veil was rent in two making both the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies one part.

Thus the correlation of the OuterCourt being the body (The place of social contact and external interaction), The InnerCourt equating the Soul (The unseen area where the priest would perform their ritual oblations = The unseen part of the mind, emotions, imagination, intelligence, finally the Holy Place linked to the Spiritual part of man. The place where God wants to reside and has designed for that purpose.

Thus in worship, Jesus says that those who want to worship God must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Which means we cannot worship God in our body (The OuterCourt), the area of social interaction and fleshly desires, nor can we worship Him in our Soul (The InnerCourt) the area where the philosophies and filth of the world tend to skew our thoughts and where resides the disobedience of our secret sins. This the reason for the Bronze Laver and the Altar of Burnt Offering. The former is there to cleanse the worries, fears, and cares of the world and the later to wash away the sins we know and only we know we have. That’s the truth part of worship, because we can’t fool Him. God’s knows the thoughts and intents of the heart. And so, as we close our eyes to seal off the senses of the OuterCourt, as we rest in the assurance of His care for us and we confess our sins at the Altar, we can enter the Spirit part of our beings (The Holy Place) and in His presence humbly fall on our knees and worship His Sovereignty and Divine Worthiness.
Hope this helps
Teach

 

[Hawkins]

1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe man is atriune being created in the image and likeness of triune GOD.
I believe the spirit and soul make up the heart of a man.

I see the spirit as GOD conscious,
the soul as self conscious,
the body as world conscious.

Yes, very good insight sir.