What is "the message of the cross?"

[whirlwind]

• 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The preaching, the word or message of "the cross," is "the power of God." As we don't wish to be among those that perish or find it foolish...we see what the message is but what is meant by the "message of the cross?"

 

[whirlwind]

• 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The preaching, the word or message of "the cross," is "the power of God." As we don't wish to be among those that perish or find it foolish...we see what the message is but what is meant by the "message of the cross?"

• Cross ~ # 4716 stauros; from the base of 2476: a stake or post (as set upright); i.e.(spec) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment): fig. exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by impl. the atonement of Christ: - cross
  
  Power ~ #1411 dunamis, from 1410; force (lit. or fig.); spec. miraculous power (usually by impl. a miracle itself):- ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, deed), (worker of) miracles, power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

To those of us who are saved the message of the cross (exposure to death, self-denial) is the power of God (the miraculous, mighty, wonderful work).

That is all I am able to find from the given descriptions of the words used. Are there any thoughts on the meaning behind the words for....they appear to be vital to our understanding.

 

[MMarc]

Jesus was crucified that way may be reconciled with the Father. At Pentecost they were enjoying the same relationship Adam and Eve had before the fall.

Likewise so do we, when we receive the Holy Spirit (the promised land) we too have the same relationship that Adam and Eve had with God, the only difference is that the world is dark.

 

[Adullam]

The cross is the power that destroys anything that separates us from God. It is a death that brings life. This is not just a historical reality, but an ongoing reality. As I die, Christ as the new man within me is edified. As my old nature withers, the new nature comes into power in my soul and therefore in my life. I can then walk in obedience according to the Spirit. Before that my life is my own. After the cross my life is His.

 

[whirlwind]

The cross is the power that destroys anything that separates us from God. It is a death that brings life. This is not just a historical reality, but an ongoing reality. As I die, Christ as the new man within me is edified. As my old nature withers, the new nature comes into power in my soul and therefore in my life. I can then walk in obedience according to the Spirit. Before that my life is my own. After the cross my life is His.

Thank you. So, "the preaching of the cross" is "the power of God" in our lives and that power is...."as I die, Christ as the new man within me is edified?" The "preaching" is that message!

Should we not hear more about this dying as we consider ourselves to be the "saved" knowing it is not a foolish message?

 

[Free]

• 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The preaching, the word or message of "the cross," is "the power of God." As we don't wish to be among those that perish or find it foolish...we see what the message is but what is meant by the "message of the cross?"

• Cross ~ # 4716 stauros; from the base of 2476: a stake or post (as set upright); i.e.(spec) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment): fig. exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by impl. the atonement of Christ: - cross
  
  Power ~ #1411 dunamis, from 1410; force (lit. or fig.); spec. miraculous power (usually by impl. a miracle itself):- ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, deed), (worker of) miracles, power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

To those of us who are saved the message of the cross (exposure to death, self-denial) is the power of God (the miraculous, mighty, wonderful work).

That is all I am able to find from the given descriptions of the words used. Are there any thoughts on the meaning behind the words for....they appear to be vital to our understanding.

No, there are no thoughts on "the meaning behind the words" since the words used give all the meaning we need. The translators used the meaning they did for a reason, not the least of which is that are trained in the Greek. Do not appeal to the Greek in that way if you have not been formally trained. Doing so leads to all sorts of error.

The message of the cross is that it is only because Jesus died as the atoning sacrifice for our sins that we can be reconciled to God. That is it.

 

[whirlwind]

No, there are no thoughts on "the meaning behind the words" since the words used give all the meaning we need. The translators used the meaning they did for a reason, not the least of which is that are trained in the Greek. Do not appeal to the Greek in that way if you have not been formally trained. Doing so leads to all sorts of error.

The message of the cross is that it is only because Jesus died as the atoning sacrifice for our sins that we can be reconciled to God. That is it.

You could certainly be correct for that is the primary message. But, just perhaps....there is more to the story.

As far as needing to be formally trained in Greek in order to use a Concordance... You're kidding, aren't you? I simply listed the written explantion of the word used.

 

[Adullam]

• 1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The preaching, the word or message of "the cross," is "the power of God." As we don't wish to be among those that perish or find it foolish...we see what the message is but what is meant by the "message of the cross?"

• Cross ~ # 4716 stauros; from the base of 2476: a stake or post (as set upright); i.e.(spec) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment): fig. exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by impl. the atonement of Christ: - cross
  
  Power ~ #1411 dunamis, from 1410; force (lit. or fig.); spec. miraculous power (usually by impl. a miracle itself):- ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, deed), (worker of) miracles, power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

To those of us who are saved the message of the cross (exposure to death, self-denial) is the power of God (the miraculous, mighty, wonderful work).

That is all I am able to find from the given descriptions of the words used. Are there any thoughts on the meaning behind the words for....they appear to be vital to our understanding.

No, there are no thoughts on "the meaning behind the words" since the words used give all the meaning we need. The translators used the meaning they did for a reason, not the least of which is that are trained in the Greek. Do not appeal to the Greek in that way if you have not been formally trained. Doing so leads to all sorts of error.

The message of the cross is that it is only because Jesus died as the atoning sacrifice for our sins that we can be reconciled to God. That is it.

Is that really all there is?

Have you ever read this ?

Matthew 10:38-39 (King James Version)

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

 

[whirlwind]

Is that really all there is?

Have you ever read this ?

Matthew 10:38-39 (King James Version)

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

So there is His cross and there is our cross...both "messages must be preached" unless we believe it to be foolish and perish?

 

[Free]

No, there are no thoughts on "the meaning behind the words" since the words used give all the meaning we need. The translators used the meaning they did for a reason, not the least of which is that are trained in the Greek. Do not appeal to the Greek in that way if you have not been formally trained. Doing so leads to all sorts of error.

The message of the cross is that it is only because Jesus died as the atoning sacrifice for our sins that we can be reconciled to God. That is it.

You could certainly be correct for that is the primary message. But, just perhaps....there is more to the story.

As far as needing to be formally trained in Greek in order to use a Concordance... You're kidding, aren't you? I simply listed the written explantion of the word used.

That is not what I said. I said that in order to appeal to the Greek in the manner in which you are doing--that is, looking up the many meanings of a given word in order to get a different or hidden meaning from the text--is wrong. Most Greek words have several related meanings but it is the context that determines which one is used. You cannot just open up Strong's and say that such a word also means this and this other word also means something else and then think that you have come up with another meaning for the text.

Is that really all there is?

Have you ever read this ?

Matthew 10:38-39 (King James Version)

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

That is not the passage in question. It is clear to what Paul is referring:

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

 

[Adullam]

Ok What about this...



But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Galatians 6:14 KJV

Here the cross would appear to be the power of salvation...not in a religious sense, but in a reality sense according to power. In other words the message of the cross is not just based on an assent to facts of history...but a present work of death bringing one into divine fellowship with Christ and His brethren.

 

[whirlwind]

You could certainly be correct for that is the primary message. But, just perhaps....there is more to the story.

As far as needing to be formally trained in Greek in order to use a Concordance... You're kidding, aren't you? I simply listed the written explantion of the word used.

That is not what I said. I said that in order to appeal to the Greek in the manner in which you are doing--that is, looking up the many meanings of a given word in order to get a different or hidden meaning from the text--is wrong. Most Greek words have several related meanings but it is the context that determines which one is used. You cannot just open up Strong's and say that such a word also means this and this other word also means something else and then think that you have come up with another meaning for the text.

I didn't look it up to get a different or hidden meaning. I looked it up to have fuller understanding.

Is that really all there is?

Have you ever read this ?

Matthew 10:38-39 (King James Version)

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

That is not the passage in question. It is clear to what Paul is referring:

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scriI didn't look up anything to "get a different meaning." I looked it up to get a fuller meaning. be? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

But Free, those verses continue with....

• 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

Paul also discusses our calling and part of that calling, and what is expected is about the cross....

• Matthew 10:38-39 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Perhaps that is why, in [1 Co. 1:18] it is written....For the preaching of the cross, not "the preaching of His cross?"

 

[Free]

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
....
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

The context shows what Paul means by "the message of the cross": it is the cross of Christ as the atoning sacrifice for our sins and our reconciliation to God; it is everything that the death of Jesus on the cross means regarding salvation. There is nothing of the personal cross that we are to take up; that is not what is in view here.

To me that is what the context shows and that is also what four commentaries stated when I looked it up. A deeper understanding is best found through commentaries and books on word studies in Greek.

 

[whirlwind]

1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
....
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

The context shows what Paul means by "the message of the cross": it is the cross of Christ as the atoning sacrifice for our sins and our reconciliation to God; it is everything that the death of Jesus on the cross means regarding salvation. There is nothing of the personal cross that we are to take up; that is not what is in view here.

To me that is what the context shows and that is also what four commentaries stated when I looked it up. A deeper understanding is best found through commentaries and books on word studies in Greek.

I agree in that is what the context shows but I believe it is connected to other Scripture on the same topic. And I would ask....the "commentaries" are written by.......a man?

Did the writers just see the word or did they see the spirit? I'm not saying they didn't....we don't know but we do know what God told us:

• 1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
  
  1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teacheth you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

Some men don't compare spiritual to spiritual. Some men don't believe a verse in one place has any connection to the same topic in another place. Some men are influenced by what they have been taught. Some men try to deceive. Some men are influenced by their religion. And....some men are led by the Holy Spirit. We just don't know when we read what is written. I've listened to some of the well known experts on television and :o can't believe what they teach.

 

[Free]

I agree in that is what the context shows but I believe it is connected to other Scripture on the same topic. And I would ask....the "commentaries" are written by.......a man?

Oh my...how did I know it was going to come down to this... I hope you realize the contradiction--you are doing the exact same thing, except without any formal training.

You are on an extremely slippery slope.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I've listened to some of the well known experts on television and :o can't believe what they teach.

I don't think there are any real experts on television.

 

[whirlwind]

I agree in that is what the context shows but I believe it is connected to other Scripture on the same topic. And I would ask....the "commentaries" are written by.......a man?

Oh my...how did I know it was going to come down to this... I hope you realize the contradiction--you are doing the exact same thing, except without any formal training.

You are on an extremely slippery slope.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Am I "heaping teachers?" I thought I was trying to avoid that.

I've listened to some of the well known experts on television and :o can't believe what they teach.

I don't think there are any real experts on television.

I agree there are no "real experts" but they have the creditials and are heralded as such. Complete with collars and diplomas.

 

[whirlwind]

Previously Adullam wrote....."The cross is the power that destroys anything that separates us from God. It is a death that brings life. This is not just a historical reality, but an ongoing reality. As I die, Christ as the new man within me is edified. As my old nature withers, the new nature comes into power in my soul and therefore in my life. I can then walk in obedience according to the Spirit. Before that my life is my own. After the cross my life is His."


I suppose my question in this, what I am trying to understand is....is the death of our old man different in different folks? I have read some of the truly terrible experiences some have endured. I have read other posters describe "dying to self" and wonder....why does it sound so difficult, such tribulation? To me it is a maturing process and one that has been joyful rather than difficult. I see it as what Adullum has written above...."my old nature withers" and from that I feel "power in my soul." I don't feel that it is a purposeful act but rather one that evolves as I grow.

What exactly is the "message of the cross," of our cross? Is it more than I am seeing and feeling, which is not at all as a tribulation, or is it as written above....."destroying all that separates us from God," which is a joyful realization.

I wonder if perhaps the days ahead will have strong trials I must face?

 

[whirlwind]

In response to the above question....He answered and I thank Him for answering....

11 Timothy 3:12-13 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

• We shall suffer persecution. There are different types of persecution. Here, it comes from deceivers, false teachers. I have never noticed that those that deceive are themselves...being deceived!

3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

• From a child to the man of God....the man child!