What lies do

[Heidi]

Here's what lies do:

Once a person tells a lie, he has to tell a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. lie to defend the 1st lie.

So once someone claims that Mary was a virgin all her life here's what has to happen:

1) They have to justify this by making up stories and putting them into scripture or changing the words around in scripture to justify their statement
2) Turn the word "brothers and sisters" into "cousins, half-brothers, adopted children, chidlren out of wedlock, etc.
3) Claiming that Mary wasn't a good wife for denying sex to her husband his whole life or making up stories that Joseph didn't want sex with his wife their whole lives
4) Claim that Joseph was previously widowed or divorced
5) Make up a brother or sister of Mary or Joseph whose children lived in their household
6) Making up stories about out why Mary & Joseph didn't take all her children to Egypt with Joseph and Jesus
7) Strike out the last part of Matthew 1:25 and replace it with; "But he had no union with her forever."

So what happens is that the more stories that one has to make up to explain the first lie eventually ends up contradicting more and more scripture as the claim that Mary was sinless also does:

1) Since what separates man from God is sin, the claiming that Mary was sinless makes her into a God
2) That means that the Catholics have to strike out Luke 1:47 where Mary was thankful that she had a savior. (Sinless people don't need a savior.)
3) It contradicts Matthew 11:11
4) It contradicts Deuteronomy 5:7-8
5) Why don't the Catholics honor Mary's mother like they honor Mary for giving birth to a sinless child? :o
6) It adds scripture to the bible of Mary's birth and ascension


So the more scripture that the catholics have to contradict to justify unbiblical statements, the more stores they have to make up. So the catholics get themselves into a bind when making up new scripture that will eventually contradict the whole word of God.

2 Peter 2:3, "In their greed, these teachers will exlpoit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them and their destruction has not been sleeping."

The catholics thus disobey that verse along with Matthew 23:5-9 and Leviticus 26:1. One lie leads to another and another and another until pretty soon they have gone as far from God's word as they possibly can. That's not getting closer to God, it's getting farther away from worshiping God and closer and closer to worshiping human beings like the pope and Mary. True Christians believe what the bible does say, not what the bible doesn't say, like the Catholics do. Stories without support from reality are nothing more than gossip and rumors.

But that's what telling a lie does. It balloons into ludicrous claims that can easily be proven false or contradictory. And satan is the father of lies. How the catholics think they can fool other Christians, or even anyone who can understand the spoken word, is mind-boggling. But they aren't fooling us and certainly aren't fooling God, only themselves.

 

[jgredline]

Great post....

 

[Heidi]

Great post....

I wonder why no Catholic has responded to the OP. Why do you think that is? ;-)

 

[jgredline]

I wonder why no Catholic has responded to the OP. Why do you think that is? ;-)

Because the truth hurts :

 

[golfjack]

reply

The lies of the Catholic church are nauasiating to me. It makes me sick to see people fooled that way. I am going to take a break before I vomit. I guess this is why in Revelation Jesus said I will vomit them out of my mouth if one stays in the Ladocia church. Has anyone ever wondered how much money the Vatican has stored up?



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Heidi]

Re: reply

The lies of the Catholic church are nauasiating to me. It makes me sick to see people fooled that way. I am going to take a break before I vomit. I guess this is why in Revelation Jesus said I will vomit them out of my mouth if one stays in the Ladocia church. Has anyone ever wondered how much money the Vatican has stored up?



May God bless, Golfjack

What's even sicker is how they try to justify their lies. But all they do is contradict even more scripture. But I bet they know that which is why not one cactholic has responded to either of my 2 threads in almost 12 hours. Conviction is far-reaching. But conviction leads to repentance. I can only hope that even one Catholic on this forum cares enough about God to see just how abominable it is to add, subtract, or alter His words all the while hiding under the name of Christ to do it.

 

[aj830]

Here's what lies do:

Once a person tells a lie, he has to tell a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. lie to defend the 1st lie.

So once someone claims that Mary was a virgin all her life here's what has to happen:

1) They have to justify this by making up stories and putting them into scripture or changing the words around in scripture to justify their statement

For one we don't change the words around in Scripture or make up stories. No one has ever done that.

2) Turn the word "brothers and sisters" into "cousins, half-brothers, adopted children, chidlren out of wedlock, etc.

We did not change anything. We said that that people could be cousins and be called borhters and sisters back then. Joseph was called Jesus' father all though he was not his biological father. And why did Jesus not entrust his mother to one of his brothers if he had them?

3) Claiming that Mary wasn't a good wife for denying sex to her husband his whole life or making up stories that Joseph didn't want sex with his wife their whole lives

No one ever said Mary denied Joseph sex. Joseph may have realized the imensity of his wife giving birth to Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and not have wished to have sex with his wife.

4) Claim that Joseph was previously widowed or divorced

I don't see how this is a lie. Most people believe he had a previous wife which would explain Jesus' brothers.

5) Make up a brother or sister of Mary or Joseph whose children lived in their household

Ummmm....most families lived in large groups with many family members.

6) Making up stories about out why Mary & Joseph didn't take all her children to Egypt with Joseph and Jesus

I don't understand what you are trying to say here.

7) Strike out the last part of Matthew 1:25 and replace it with; "But he had no union with her forever."

When did anyone do that? We said that the words "until" do not imply that he had relations with her. It just says up until that point there was no sexual relation.

So what happens is that the more stories that one has to make up to explain the first lie eventually ends up contradicting more and more scripture as the claim that Mary was sinless also does:

1) Since what separates man from God is sin, the claiming that Mary was sinless makes her into a God

No. It does not.

2) That means that the Catholics have to strike out Luke 1:47 where Mary was thankful that she had a savior. (Sinless people don't need a savior.)

No. She was sinless because she had a saviour.

3) It contradicts Matthew 11:11

So...Christ is lower than St. John the Baptist? Wasn't Christ born of a woman?

5) Why don't the Catholics honor Mary's mother like they honor Mary for giving birth to a sinless child?

St. Anne gave birth to Mary but she did not give birth to Jesus Christ.

6) It adds scripture to the bible of Mary's birth and ascension

You add to Scriptures in the Bible to make your doctrine of Sola Scriptura so you are not one to talk.

Pretty much all of your statements are twisted versions of the stuff we have said. [/quote]

 

[Heidi]

That's hogwash. The catholics absolutely change "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" into "but he had no union with her forever. " A perpetual virgin doesn't have sex with her husband. Remember? So it's a blatant falsehood that the Catholics don't change the bible and make up scripture. There is no place in scripture that says that Mary was born sinless. That's all made up by the catholics. :x

 

[MrVersatile48]

Heidi

I'll come back to read this whole thread later: you are a good writer & a very clear thinker, as clicking your profile & 'find all posts by...' will verify to any open-minded reader

Before any RCs charge either of us with bigotry, I suggest they do the same on my profile/www

Just time to post this timely Word 4 Today:-


My Answer : Why are some folk interested in God & others not?[/b]
Billy Graham

Q: Why are some people interested in God and other people aren't? I find this puzzling and hard to understand. I've been trying to talk to a man who goes to the same health club I do about Jesus, but he's made it clear he just isn't interested. How can I get through to him? - J.K.

A: Yes, it is puzzling why some people have a hunger for God and others don't - and yet we know from experience that it's true.

In one of His parables, Jesus compared the hearts of those who are indifferent to God to the hard, packed-down soil where the seed sown by a farmer refused to grow, "and the birds came and ate it up" (Mark 4:4).

But remember: At one time we all were like this! The Bible says we all were born into a world that is hostile toward God, and we all "have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

Furthermore, it tells us that our hearts are hardened because of sin, and "the sinful mind is hostile to God" (Romans 8:7). In other words, the puzzle isn't why some people ignore God, but why any of us ever actually turn to Him!

Only God can change our hearts, and only God can give us a desire to know Him. And that's why the most important thing you can do for your friend is to pray for him, asking God to convict him of his sins and draw him to Christ. Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him" (John 6:44).

In addition, ask God to help you be a witness to this person by your life. Do others see Christ in you - His love, His patience, His peace, His joy? The life we live often makes a far greater impact than the words we say.

========

Send your queries to "My Answer," c/o Billy Graham, Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, 1 Billy Graham Parkway, Charlotte, N.C., 28201; call 1-(877) 2-GRAHAM, or visit the Web site for the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association: http://www.billygraham.org.

 

[Heidi]

Heidi

I'll come back to read this whole thread later: you are a good writer & a very clear thinker, as clicking your profile & 'find all posts by...' will verify to any open-minded reader

Before any RCs charge either of us with bigotry, I suggest they do the same on my profile/www

Just time to post this timely Word 4 Today:-


My Answer : Why are some folk interested in God & others not?[/b]
Billy Graham

Q: Why are some people interested in God and other people aren't? I find this puzzling and hard to understand. I've been trying to talk to a man who goes to the same health club I do about Jesus, but he's made it clear he just isn't interested. How can I get through to him? - J.K.

A: Yes, it is puzzling why some people have a hunger for God and others don't - and yet we know from experience that it's true.

In one of His parables, Jesus compared the hearts of those who are indifferent to God to the hard, packed-down soil where the seed sown by a farmer refused to grow, "and the birds came and ate it up" (Mark 4:4).

But remember: At one time we all were like this! The Bible says we all were born into a world that is hostile toward God, and we all "have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

Furthermore, it tells us that our hearts are hardened because of sin, and "the sinful mind is hostile to God" (Romans 8:7). In other words, the puzzle isn't why some people ignore God, but why any of us ever actually turn to Him!

Only God can change our hearts, and only God can give us a desire to know Him. And that's why the most important thing you can do for your friend is to pray for him, asking God to convict him of his sins and draw him to Christ. Jesus said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him" (John 6:44).

In addition, ask God to help you be a witness to this person by your life. Do others see Christ in you - His love, His patience, His peace, His joy? The life we live often makes a far greater impact than the words we say.

========

Send your queries to "My Answer," c/o Billy Graham, Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, 1 Billy Graham Parkway, Charlotte, N.C., 28201; call 1-(877) 2-GRAHAM, or visit the Web site for the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association: http://www.billygraham.org.

The only explanation is what Jesus tells us; "No one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him."

Before I was born again, the bible made no sense to me. I too, like the Catholics, had to go to someone to interpret it for me. But all I found was vastly different "interpretations."

Then when I received the Holy Spirit, the bible came alive to me and I saw that the words in it were very simple and very clear. I had just previously lacked belief in them. One cannot believe what he himself doesn't udnerstand. But he can adopt the bbeliefs of others including pastors, doctrines, etc. memorize them and recite them by rote without understanding a word of them.

So understanding the beible isn't a matter of interpretation, but simply of belief. That's why Jesus told us that unless we enter the kingdom of heaven like little children, we will never enter it. The words in the bible are simple enough for a child to understand. The words used are the words we all use in everyday life.

But to enter the kingdom as a child, we have to admit:

1) How little we know
2) Be open to simple belief
3) Not twist, analyze, distort, add, subtract, or change any word in the bible. Children are too simple to engage in that sort of exercise. They simply believe. Thus when Jesus said; "The work of God is this; to believe in the one he sent."

That's it. That's all one has to do to enter heaven. And that means believing every single word that Jesus said without trying to alter it to suit our own desires.

 

[Drew]

So understanding the beible isn't a matter of interpretation, but simply of belief.

I think that it is obvious that acts of interpretation are involved in the process of getting the written word off the page and into the mind of the believer. I submit that to suggest otherwise is to deny a manifestly obvious truth about the mechanics of the world. Words and sentences need to be interpreted. It would be nice if things were simpler, but they are not.

But to enter the kingdom as a child, we have to admit:

1) How little we know
2) Be open to simple belief

I have come to believe that one of the most dangerously incorrect beliefs in Christendom is the notion that a simple act of mental assent to the proposition that Jesus died for one's sins is sufficient to secure one's salvation. I think the Scriptures teach otherwise. We can debate this, of course, but perhaps in another thread. I am not saying that this is necessarily what you (Heidi) are saying here, but I am always concerned when I see even the hint of this idea.

I heartily agree that we need to enter the kingdom as little children. As Heidi points out, this is clearly what Jesus teaches. However, I do not believe Scripture says that "once we're in, we're in for good".

 

[Heidi]

I have come to believe that one of the most dangerously incorrect beliefs in Christendom is the notion that a simple act of mental assent to the proposition that Jesus died for one's sins is sufficient to secure one's salvation. I think the Scriptures teach otherwise. We can debate this, of course, but perhaps in another thread. I am not saying that this is necessarily what you (Heidi) are saying here, but I am always concerned when I see even the hint of this idea.

I heartily agree that we need to enter the kingdom as little children. As Heidi points out, this is clearly what Jesus teaches. However, I do not believe Scripture says that "once we're in, we're in for good".

Sorry, but that's exactly where false teachings start. The words in the bible should remain outside of ourselves and are easily understandable as written. "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" is as easily understandable as "But I didn't eat desert until I finished the man course."

However, if the catholics have such a hard time understanding simple words, then they will cofuse and mix up simple words that are spoken to each other in everyday life. But I hardly think that's the case since the catholics use all the words in Matthew 1:25 in everday conversation. It's only when those words are in the bible that people try to redefine or change them. And the reason for that is simple: of all books, Satan wants to keep people from believing the bible. Otherwise, Matthew 1:25 is as simple to understand as: "I didn't eat desert until I finished the main course." Sp only the man who has the indwelling Holy Spirit will not be tempted to change the words in the bible. ;-)

 

[Drew]

Sorry, but that's exactly where false teachings start. The words in the bible should remain outside of ourselves and are easily understandable as written. "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son" is as easily understandable as "But I didn't eat desert until I finished the man course."

The assertion that there is an objective, "interpretation not required" truth present in the Scriptures is a bad idea that, along with some other bad ideas, has gained a foothold in the Christian community.

It is obviously incorrect for a number of "technical" reasons. Words are, of course, symbols that map to certain elements of "reality". When we read the word "cat", we perform an act of interpretation when we map it to that 4-legged furry purring animal. This is a trivial kind of intepretation. But the interpretation of other words and phrases is far more complex and involves the application of knowledge that may indeed vary from culture to culture and time to time. We need to know about what words like "spirit" and "soul" (for example) meant to the authors of Scripture (who lived in a Hebrew culture), not what these words mean to us today (influenced as we are by Greek culture). To believe that Scripture does not require interpretation is to believe that words have meanings that are mathematically precise and invariant from culture to culture and time to time. We know that this is simply not the case.

 

[Veritas]

Heidi, that was an awesome post up there about the simpleness of belief.

Drew, ...like a child. Jesus is clear on that concept.

I don't think there is anything wrong with using the brain God gave us, and I know you are very intelligent, but more often than not we mess up in overanalyzing stuff.

Let me briefly comment on what you've said:

Words are, of course, symbols that map to certain elements of "reality". When we read the word "cat", we perform an act of interpretation when we map it to that 4-legged furry purring animal. This is a trivial kind of intepretation. But the interpretation of other words and phrases is far more complex and involves the application of knowledge that may indeed vary from culture to culture and time to time.

Yes, this is true. But I believe words are a bit more significant than a symbol. Or perhaps it is because I believe words encompass the symbol, mapping, and meaning. Remember that Jesus is the Word. Words are not relative, or at least not meant to be (even though I know alot of thinkers try to make them out that way). But here again enters the simple concept. In order to make sense out of anything (including what I'm typing) we simply accept and agree what symbols mean. Yes, the symbols and sounds making up words may differ from culture to culture and time to time, but it is the meaning that is agreed upon. Once the connection is made we communicate. Otherwise, nothing makes sense.

Drew, as far as interpretation goes (even in the realm you speak of ) God is doing it for he IS the Almighty Word and sustains "reason" as we know it. So any interpretation by us is nothing but a scattering of reason. And that is not good.

 

[Heidi]

The assertion that there is an objective, "interpretation not required" truth present in the Scriptures is a bad idea that, along with some other bad ideas, has gained a foothold in the Christian community.

It is obviously incorrect for a number of "technical" reasons. Words are, of course, symbols that map to certain elements of "reality". When we read the word "cat", we perform an act of interpretation when we map it to that 4-legged furry purring animal. This is a trivial kind of intepretation. But the interpretation of other words and phrases is far more complex and involves the application of knowledge that may indeed vary from culture to culture and time to time. We need to know about what words like "spirit" and "soul" (for example) meant to the authors of Scripture (who lived in a Hebrew culture), not what these words mean to us today (influenced as we are by Greek culture). To believe that Scripture does not require interpretation is to believe that words have meanings that are mathematically precise and invariant from culture to culture and time to time. We know that this is simply not the case.

So what you would prefer is for people to slant the bible in the manner in which they want to. Is that correct? :

So can I slant your words and tell them that my interpretation is correct? : So if I change your words: "This is a trivial kind of interpretation" to: "This is not a trivial kind of interpretation", would my interpretation of your words be correct? :o Can I tell people that you said the opposite of what you said because I interpreted your words that way? :o In fact, cvan I change all of your words around into my slant then pass them along as your words?

What you're doing is making the bible so complex and non-understandable that no one can know the will of God. Of course, that's what Satan would absolutely love and he's doing a great job of keeping the Catholics from believing the bible as written. In fact,the "interpretation" excuse is Satan's best tool. Either that, or the Catholics truly cannot udnerstand the spoken word. It's one or the other, friend. ;-) But that's what lies do; they redefine words like "is" "father" "brother" and try to use doubletalk to confuse people so they can't see the truth. But unfortunately, the only people they confuse is the one who tells the lie because he thinks he's actually fooling people. The truth is always simple, straighforward, non-contradictory and honest. Only lies are convoluted. ;-)

 

[Gabbylittleangel]

Here's what lies do:...

Lies, simply put, serve the father of lies.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Scripture has much to say on the cause and effect, and the results of lies. Not just false doctrines, but any and all lies.

Psa 101:7 He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Psa 33:4 For the word of the LORD [is] right; and all his works [are done] in truth.

When someone is seeking truth, they are going to find Jesus Christ. Those who come up with false doctrines, were not seeking truth. Those who find the Lord, delight in truth.
Those who turn away from truth, also turn away from light and go deeper and deeper into lies and darkness.

I am concerned not just with those who tell big bold lies, but also those who compromise just a little with the warm fuzzy cute ones, that come as a transformed angel of light.

 

[Heidi]

Lies, simply put, serve the father of lies.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Scripture has much to say on the cause and effect, and the results of lies. Not just false doctrines, but any and all lies.

Psa 101:7 He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Psa 33:4 For the word of the LORD [is] right; and all his works [are done] in truth.

When someone is seeking truth, they are going to find Jesus Christ. Those who come up with false doctrines, were not seeking truth. Those who find the Lord, delight in truth.
Those who turn away from truth, also turn away from light and go deeper and deeper into lies and darkness.

I am concerned not just with those who tell big bold lies, but also those who compromise just a little with the warm fuzzy cute ones, that come as a transformed angel of light.

Amen.