What Makes a True Christian?

[AVBunyan]

A little slant – posted this on another thread but I thought I’d create a thread and simplify to clarify.

Simply put - What makes a sinner a true Christian is what Christ did at Calvary.

In reality it is "Who makes you a true Christian?" The answer - Christ.

What many of you folks here (and most everywhere else) believe is that what you do makes for a true Christian.

You can do nothing to make yourself a true Christian. You believe that by: keeping the faith, being faithful, worshiping God, praying, doing good works, persevering unto the end, believing, etc. makes you a true Christian.

After you become a true Christian then you can do the above but you cannot do the above to become a true Christian.

All you folks talk about is what you do. Do you know how I know this? I read your posts.

Very few of you (outside a few moderators and posters) talk about what Christ did. Most of your time is you talking (or boasting) about what you do. How do I know this? I read your posts.

You are trusting "your doing" to make you a true Christian. What you are doing is taking a car with a blown engine and giving it a new paint job - the engine is still blown - the paint job will not fix the engine - it is still blown.

Sinners need "a new engine" which only Calvary can provide. You folks want to be "engine-rebuilders" - won't work.

Again...
In reality it is "Who makes you a true Christian?" The answer - Christ!

God bless

 

[thessalonian]

What makes a true Christian? The Holy Spirit cleansing the soul by God's grace. This is not contradictory at all to what Christ did on Calvary but is precisely because of what Christ did on Calvary. That grace however must be alive and active in the Christian or it is dead. Grace is not irresistable. Hope that is okay with you AV. In my mind it doesn't dissagree with you but I think in your mind you will have a problem with what I have said. We cannot do what we do without grace. We are saved by grace through faith. Grace alone, for even the faith is a product of grace. Engine building is not a denial of grace or Calvary but a recognition of God working in and through us.

[20]
Now to him who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, [21] to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Imagican]

AV,

I agree with your statements 100 percent. It IS through Christ's death that any may claim to be HIS.

On the other thread, I thought that this was a given and went to the 'next' step. That being what it takes to 'be' a Christian, not what it takes to 'become' one.

We ARE commanded that there are certain things that 'will' be a part of ANY true Christians life. And, with this in mind, I still think that what Georges offered is 'as close as it gets'.

And AV, you are absolutely RIGHT. These are NOT things we can do 'without' Christ. These are things that are done through Christ living 'in' us. We can NOT 'work' our way 'into' becoming a Christian. This IS offered through 'grace' and grace ALONE. But, once we have been accepted, our lives WILL reflect Christ in what we DO, thus the term; Christian, (Christ-like). Not through our will, so much as through the will of Christ who lives within our hearts.

So, while we can't 'do' ourselves into Christianity, we certainly have the ability to make a conscious effort to emulate Christ. And our love of God and the time we spend in communion with Him is CERTAINLY our individual choice. The reason that Paul suggested that those capable NOT wed, is to make it possible for one to dedicate their lives 'completely' to God. When one weds, wives and children take up much of the time that could have been devoted to God. This in itself goes to show that our devotion is a 'choice' that 'we' make and is NOT automatic.

Now, to take this a 'step' further. Is there such a thing as a 'good' Christian, or a 'bad' Christian? I mean either we 'are' Christians or we 'are not', correct? So, are there degrees of Christianity, some 'better' Christians than others?

 

[AVBunyan]

1. On the other thread, I thought that this was a given and went to the 'next' step. That being what it takes to 'be' a Christian, not what it takes to 'become' one.

2. We ARE commanded that there are certain things that 'will' be a part of ANY true Christians life. And, with this in mind, I still think that what Georges offered is 'as close as it gets'.

3. But, once we have been accepted, our lives WILL reflect Christ in what we DO, thus the term; Christian, (Christ-like). Not through our will, so much as through the will of Christ who lives within our hearts.
This in itself goes to show that our devotion is a 'choice' that 'we' make and is NOT automatic.

4. Now, to take this a 'step' further. Is there such a thing as a 'good' Christian, or a 'bad' Christian?

Thanks Imagican for seeking to clear things up here.

1. Then maybe I misunderstood the intent - Again, I understood it to be what "is a true" Christain so when I saw all this "doing" I responded like I did.

2. And yes, we are commanded to do things as true saints such as men, love your wives. But often folks get these commandments out of whack - they make the obeying the commandment a conditiion for salvation.

3. I agree - but again the issue I throw out the anchor on here is what makes a true saint.

4. Oh yes, practially speaking there are good saints (obedient and faithful) and bad saints (disobedient and unfaithful) but the bad saints are still saints and will always be true saints just miserable and disobedient saints.

I am not against doing good works and obeying Christ when they are doctrinally for us today.

I am against doing things to be saved.

God bless 8-)

 

[gingercat]

I am against doing things to be saved.

God bless 8-)

I haven't seen anyone working for the Lord because they want to be saved. They are working for Him because they are saved!!!!

It is so strange that so many people are accusing faithful Christians for working to be saved. :roll:

 

[Imagican]

Once again AV, we are in agreement. There is NOTHING that we can do that is WORTHY of the gift that we have 'FREELY' been given, 'a GIFT', indeed.

I too have witnessed that many believe that one must 'work' for Salvation. I believe that Salvation 'works' through US. For, if there were NO examples offered to those that have yet to accept Christ, then many would be denied the knowledge of our Savior. Thus the purpose of testimony and our urge to witness.

 

[gingercat]

I too have witnessed that many believe that one must 'work' for Salvation.

Have you really heard any Christians saying that they are working to be saved?

 

[Vic C.]

Yup, there are many people when asked if they are going to Heaven say, " I believe so. I'm basically a good person." Striving to be good in order to get to Heaven is work. Hard work. One will never make it to Heaven just knowing who Messiah is but refusing to accept that it is He that has dome the "work" for us.

Isaiah 64:6

 

[gingercat]

Yup, there are many people when asked if they are going to Heaven say, " I believe so. I'm basically a good person." Striving to be good in order to get to Heaven is work. Hard work. One will never make it to Heaven just knowing who Messiah is but refusing to accept that it is He that has dome the "work" for us.

Isaiah 64:6

Vic, they are non-believers. I haven't yet seen any Christian claiming they need work to be saved. Of course, if we love Him we should be working hard for Him. We work hard because we are His followers.

 

[xicali]

4. Oh yes, practially speaking there are good saints (obedient and faithful) and bad saints (disobedient and unfaithful) but the bad saints are still saints and will always be true saints just miserable and disobedient saints.

I am not against doing good works and obeying Christ when they are doctrinally for us today.

I am against doing things to be saved.

God bless 8-)

I hear you AV "bad saints are still saints and will always be true saints"

"... we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:10

Some of us will receive more than others but is all good. believe me is not for what we do but what we know under grace.

 

[ChristineES]

Rev 3:15 'I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. O that you* were cold or hot!
Rev 3:16 'So then, because you are lukewarm, and not hot nor cold, I am about to vomit you out of My mouth.

I put these verses down, because it is important to remember that we must not be "middle of the road" when it comes to our Christianity.
I take this to mean Christians who sin all week and go to Church on Sunday and act all holy, then continue sinning on Monday. You can't have it both ways. You either are a Christian or you are not.

 

[Imagican]

I too have witnessed that many believe that one must 'work' for Salvation.

Have you really heard any Christians saying that they are working to be saved?

Ginger, unfortunately I have. And one doesn't have to hear this outright, all you have to do is listen to what anyone says that indicates such.

There are many 'so called' Christians that I have met that claim to be Christians, but when you ask them if they are saved, their answer is, 'I don't know'. Boy, it's a hard one to understand that one could be a Christian and NOT know that they are saved. But, there are many out there and I have met quite a few in the churches.

 

[Imagican]

4. Oh yes, practially speaking there are good saints (obedient and faithful) and bad saints (disobedient and unfaithful) but the bad saints are still saints and will always be true saints just miserable and disobedient saints.

I am not against doing good works and obeying Christ when they are doctrinally for us today.

I am against doing things to be saved.

God bless 8-)

I hear you AV "bad saints are still saints and will always be true saints"

"... we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." 2 Corinthians 5:10

Some of us will receive more than others but is all good. believe me is not for what we do but what we know under grace.

No, my friend, it's NOT what we 'do' or 'don't' do that will determine our judgement, but WHY we did those things. We will NOT be judged by the 'law written upon stones', but by the 'law written in our hearts'. So, it won't be a matter of 'what' we do, but WHY we do it. What was in our hearts at the 'time' that our deeds took place whether 'good' or 'bad'.

And this is the reason that we are NOT bound by the 'written law' any longer. We are held MORE accountable than before. Before we could follow the written law that said 'do this' or 'don't do that'. Now we are bound by the thoughts and feelings in our hearts and minds. Christ himself told us that once we were told not to commit adultery, but He said that any man that EVEN looks upon a woman with lust in his heart has committed this sin, (in their heart). So, we will be judged NOT by our deeds, but by the thoughts and 'reasons' for them.

 

[gingercat]

Imagican,

It is God who judges who are saved or not! Christians who say they don't know are just being honest. Christians have tickets for salvation. Non-believers have no hope for eternal life! That's the differnce. I know most of you don't agree with me on this, but please don't come after me. :o

 

[ChristineES]

What about these verses from the Gospel of John? It says here that Jesus came to save us, not judge us.

Joh 12:47 And if any one hears My Words and does not believe, I do not judge him, for I do not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

anyone who rejects Jesus, and God is actually condemning himself (or herself)

 

[gingercat]

Gingercat, what about these verses from the Gospel of John? It says here that Jesus came to save us, not judge us.

Joh 12:47 And if any one hears My Words and does not believe, I do not judge him, for I do not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

anyone who rejects Jesus, and God is actually condemning himself (or herself)

I don't see any connection to what I said. What's your point?

 

[ChristineES]

Gingercat, what about these verses from the Gospel of John? It says here that Jesus came to save us, not judge us.

Joh 12:47 And if any one hears My Words and does not believe, I do not judge him, for I do not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.

Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

anyone who rejects Jesus, and God is actually condemning himself (or herself)

I don't see any connection to what I said. What's your point?

Sorry, There are so many quotes, that I mistook it for yours, my mistake. I removed your name from the original post. : :

 

[xicali]

I salute you AV, this is my take on this subject this is what I understand...


How did Christ Made us a True Christian?

Was it before the foundation of the world? A true Christian has to be an exact replica or a mirror reflection to project a true image or likness.

“…For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29

We couldn’t do this, so it had to be done for us. We are now the Image and likeness of Christ.

How and where Christ made us a true Christian or replica? He did it on the cross!

“Because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.†Hebrews 10:14

We don’t have to work out any behavioral pattern in order to try to be perfect. Again this has been done for us.

Who was the first true Christian on earth? No it wasn’t Jesus for he was a Jew under the law and Christians are not under the law. The apostle Paul was the first Christian on earth.

“…for this cause I [Paul] obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them [the believer] which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.†1 Timothy 1:16

“Brethren, be followers together of me [Paul], and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample†Philippians 3:17

Paul the first, was used for a pattern by our Lord to follow so that we can believe on him. The apostolic sequence is followed by his collaborators.

“For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church." 1 Corinthians 4:17

“Now I [Paul] praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and kee the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.†1 Corinthians 11:2

 

[JM]

Good thread, hope everyone reads it.