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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Bible Study What's with the Name of the Lord
- Thread starter Chopper
- Start date
It looks to me like they believed.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
It would appear that the writer of Matthew is quoting Jesus as saying that people will claim to do things by the authority of Jesus that in actually were not operating based on Jesus' authority. It would appear that these 'errant operators' may in fact believe that they were acting in Jesus' name though they were sadly mistaken.
Nothing in the text suggests that these individuals were unbelievers. It's more plausible that they were in fact believers in Jesus that acted based on the traditions of men as opposed to the authority/commands of Jesus.
I do not see these guys as believers ... They are the uses the wolfs in sheep skins.. we have lots of that sort running around today.....
There is a difference in believing there is God and believing IN God. Satan knows therefor he believes there is God ... this says it better then me.....
John 3:16 Amp
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([a]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
There is a difference in believing there is God and believing IN God. Satan knows therefor he believes there is God ... this says it better then me.....
John 3:16 Amp
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([a]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
Yes. Another explanation comes from this verse -
Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.
How many of the seventy disciples "knew" Jesus?
Most likely Judas was among them.
JLB
F
Fyre
Guest
Greetings Chopper! Good question actually!
Right there it appears of those who name the name of Jesus Christ but did not depart from iniquity. Afterall he gave himself that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify unto himself a peculiar people zealous of good works. These did many wonderful works. But He said not all who say Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the will of my Father in heaven. The will of God is our sanctification, in fact he that sanctifies and them which are sanctified are all of one, and these he is not ashamed to call brethren. There is power in his name, and these come in his name, but he says to them "I never knew you" depart from me ye that work iniquity. Whereas Paul says, the Lord knoweth them that ARE His and let everyone who nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. So maybe Paul understood something in what Jesus was showing there? That there were false brethren, or those naming the name of Christ (coming in His name) but he knows them not because they work iniquity?
The picture seems split too, between what you have done (or not done) unto the least of these (he calls brethren) who come unto them in some kind of perceivable need (they could recognize after the flesh) but did not recognize to whom they belonged (unto Christ). And of that which come in his name doing many wonderful works (as so named) yet they were working iniquity. Paul said, I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Because he asked them earlier, Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
2Ti 2:14 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Isaiah 32:6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
So he says "I never knew you" (here) who work iniquity
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And Paul points out the Lord in fact knoweth them that are his, and that those who name his name are to depart from iniquity (here)
2Ti 2:14 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Otherwise we might hear the same as shown Mat 7:23 maybe?
Because it says...
Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Where the casting out of devils in his name is not shown as something done by unbelievers is with the seven sons of the Jewish high priest though. The spirit answers them and says Jesus I know, Paul I know but who are you? That's why its a good question. The name of Jesus failing these guys had the name of the Lord being magnified ironically. Unless those there in that picture did indeed believe (even as the devils believe too) but were disobedient? However, believing and obeying are often used synonymously in some places.
You got me thinking, good question. God bless you
Chopper
Member
Does not the fact that Jesus said "I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness." identify them as unbelievers?
Chopper
Member
Thanks for all your research, I appreciate the time you spent....One author said It could be demons, wanting to duplicate the real thing and lead folk astray.
Chopper
Member
F
Fyre
Guest
No problem Chopper, I just pulled most of that from a study. Yeah, he said "many" will say (in that day) all of whom he responds, I never knew you on that basis, for working it (iniquity)
Whats interesting too is that He leads those who turn to their crooked ways by those who work it.
For example
Psalm 12:5 As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.
Similar to broken off branches men gather (My Father taketh away) in the one, and the LORD leadeth them forth with workers of iniquity.
God bless you!
B
Brother Mike
Guest
Faith in the Name of Jesus still carries great authority on this Earth. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are free and gifts as God does not give and take away (Like Job thought God did, but Job still admitted he was not willing to change his ways)
In Order to operate these things, you must have faith, so they had to be believers and had to have faith.
Jesus was not disputing the miracles, If you read the whole theme of the article he was talking about fruit being produced.
Look at Balaam............... Walked in the power of God, but his heart was not right toward God. We can't connect the power of God in ones life with them being right with God, or even doing right.
Mike.
Acts 19:11-17 (NASB95)
11 God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,
12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out.
13 But also some of the Jewish exorcists, who went from place to place, attempted to name over those who had the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, “I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches.”
14 Seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said to them, “I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
16 And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
17 This became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, who lived in Ephesus; and fear fell upon them all and the name of the Lord Jesus was being magnified.
There's power in the name of Jesus. These at least provoked a response from the demon using the name of Jesus which they knew not.
11 God was performing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul,
12 so that handkerchiefs or aprons were even carried from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out.
13 But also some of the Jewish exorcists, who went from place to place, attempted to name over those who had the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, “I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches.”
14 Seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said to them, “I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?”
16 And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
17 This became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, who lived in Ephesus; and fear fell upon them all and the name of the Lord Jesus was being magnified.
There's power in the name of Jesus. These at least provoked a response from the demon using the name of Jesus which they knew not.
Chopper
Member
I like that Mike, that makes sense to me and helps me think of an area that I wasn't aware of.
Chopper
Member
Thank you John, you gave a lot of references that make this subject very clear to me. Thank you for considering my question and Scriptually giving what I needed.
TRUTH over TRADITION
Member
I think not. Based on the context, it appear that these people were in fact believers but they were not accepted by Jesus because they were not doers of the will of God.
F
Fyre
Guest
This is how I am catching it too. The will of God is our sanctification, and example would be where Paul said, For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication . And so when he wrote in an epistle not to company with fornicators he clarified himself, that he was not speaking of those of the world (who were all such things) we were washed from. Otherwise he said we must need to depart out of the world (we are to be the light of). But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. And on that basis (working uncleanness or iniquity) when God has called us unto holiness. So Paul is more specific, he that is "called a brother". Whereas Jesus is not ashamed to call these brethren... For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren. Because even Jesus said, "who is my mother and brethren"? For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
Everytime I see that double "Lord Lord" (phrase) it sorta reminds me of the double minded man (unstable in all his ways). For example the 5 foolish virgins (verses the 5 wise) seem set as an example of the separation of being a hearer of the word but not being a doer of it by the same. Just as many would say, "Lord, Lord" in that day, likewise he asked in accord, "why call me "Lord Lord" and not do what I say, and in both places it says "I know you not". Even as it says, A froward heart shall depart from me: I will not know a wicked person. And even as The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out. We see the 5 foolish virgins said to the wise (who are likened to they which hear these words of mine and do it) say Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. Whereas that likened to what is foolish is hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them. Then comes the double "Lord, Lord" into the picture once again which is in accord with what seems consistent with the whole.
He gave himself for us to redeem us from all iniquity (((and))) purify a people zealous for good works (twofold). Even as its twofold here... In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. Just as the picture "at that day" is twofold, either what you have done (or not done) unto the least of these (he calls brethren) but also of that which come in his name ( where that double Lord is again) having many wonderful works, but also working iniquity. And says elsewhere, "His servants ye are" unto whom you obey (whether of sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness) having your fruit unto holiness (without which no man will see the Lord).
The grace is for the "obedience of the faith". The grace of God actually teaches us to deny worldly and ungodly lusts and to live righteously and sober in this present world. Sin not having dominion over us is by grace, its effective. Unlike the law, which is the strength of sin while we were in the flesh.
Obedience, I agree.
Chopper
Member