What's YOUR view on Unity

[Adullam]

Is it when we all believe the same things?

Is it when sleepers snore together in unison?

Same worship style?

Same ethnic group? :nod :nod :nod

The same spiritual experiences? :angel3 :angel3 :angel3


Or is it something more profound?

 

[shad]

Is it when we all believe the same things?

Is it when sleepers snore together in unison?


Or is it something more profound?

His believers cooperate for God's kingdom. It is not so hard concept.

 

[Jon-Marc]

Unity is when we get along and love one another despite our differences.

 

[Adullam]

Unity is when we get along and love one another despite our differences.

:twolove
:love2

 

[lovely]

My view is that we should all be gathering together under the Headship of Christ even if we have different views. Our 'mission statement' should be very minimal. Belief in God should be the the main criteria, and then if there are others they should be very few. I can't think of any others right now, maybe having Christ as Lord of their lives and leading a fruitful life. Anyway, my list would have been longer at one point in my life, but now I just think I was flat out wrong. I have contributed to heretical division and I repent.

The interesting thing is we seem to divide over theology, while we rarely concern ourselves with the doctrine of Christ. I would rather see someone sincerely trying to live for Christ and maybe getting their theology wrong, than see someone saying all the right things but never making Jesus Lord of their lives in obedience.

Jon Marc is right, we should be loving one another, and we should be loving the Lord who has given us the grace to obey Him. Just some thoughts. The Lord bless.

 

[Adullam]

My view is that we should all be gathering together under the Headship of Christ even if we have different views. Our 'mission statement' should be very minimal. Belief in God should be the the main criteria, and then if there are others they should be very few. I can't think of any others right now, maybe having Christ as Lord of their lives and leading a fruitful life. Anyway, my list would have been longer at one point in my life, but now I just think I was flat out wrong. I have contributed to heretical division and I repent.

The interesting thing is we seem to divide over theology, while we rarely concern ourselves with the doctrine of Christ. I would rather see someone sincerely trying to live for Christ and maybe getting their theology wrong, than see someone saying all the right things but never making Jesus Lord of their lives in obedience.

Jon Marc is right, we should be loving one another, and we should be loving the Lord who has given us the grace to obey Him. Just some thoughts. The Lord bless.

How is this for a mission statement... Love the Lord and love the brethren!

 

[researcher]

Is it when we all believe the same things?

Is it when sleepers snore together in unison?

Same worship style?

Same ethnic group? :nod :nod :nod

The same spiritual experiences? :angel3 :angel3 :angel3


Or is it something more profound?

Everyone who believes differently from me should be burned at the stake

;) :P

 

[destiny]

Based on the word of God and the experiences I've personally walked through, sound doctrine is crucial and true biblical unity is based upon it. Not everyone who names the name of Jesus is a true brother or sister.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (Roman 16:17).

The bible clearly teaches us the principles of separation for the sake of sound doctrine and holy living.

Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionerâ€â€not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.â€Â(1 Corinthians 5:6-13)

To go against Gods word for the sake of unity is putting man before God and will lead to our destruction. But.. there are doctrines that are nonessential to salvation and unity. We should know the difference.

 

[francisdesales]

Based on the word of God and the experiences I've personally walked through, sound doctrine is crucial and true biblical unity is based upon it. Not everyone who names the name of Jesus is a true brother or sister.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (Roman 16:17).

The bible clearly teaches us the principles of separation for the sake of sound doctrine and holy living.

Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionerâ€â€not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.â€Â(1 Corinthians 5:6-13)

To go against Gods word for the sake of unity is putting man before God and will lead to our destruction. But.. there are doctrines that are nonessential to salvation and unity. We should know the difference.

Excellent point. This is the dilemna facing false ecumenicism - changing God's Word so we can all "just get along".

Regards

 

[lovely]

Based on the word of God and the experiences I've personally walked through, sound doctrine is crucial and true biblical unity is based upon it. Not everyone who names the name of Jesus is a true brother or sister.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them" (Roman 16:17).

The bible clearly teaches us the principles of separation for the sake of sound doctrine and holy living.

Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionerâ€â€not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.â€Â(1 Corinthians 5:6-13)

To go against Gods word for the sake of unity is putting man before God and will lead to our destruction. But.. there are doctrines that are nonessential to salvation and unity. We should know the difference.

Destiny, I think the distinction between sound doctrine (Christ's doctrine, which is something we live out before Him and each other, a belief unto righteousness.) and sound theology should be made. The doctrine of Christ involves true religion and a belief unto righteousness. People gathered together, who are dilligently seeking Christ (who have a true belief) should not separate over theological differences. I don't see where the Bible says to do this. True church discipline can flourish among such a group, and the barren false teachers would not be tolerated.

The Bible tells us to 'purge out the old lump' by getting rid of those who cause divisions among us, but it doesn't tell the true believer to leave or the gathering to split. If we are willing to obey God's pattern for the church, if qualified elders and deacons are in place, and if we truly pray and ask God to provide believers with gifts that edify and bring unity in love, then God's people can coporately gather and worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. We must be willing to submit to one another, and practice true church discipline again, and we need to follow the words of Christ in our lives rather than focus on theology. I am not saying theology doesn't matter, we should all study and share it, but it shouldn't divide us.

It's when unqualified elders and deacons are in leadership that we have a problem, because they glorify themselves, bring in divisive teachings, and tear down God's plan for the body. There is no fruit, or love of the brotherhood, in these people and we should be bold enough to have them either submit to the instruction of Godly elders, or leave. The thing is, these people can be teaching plenty of 'sound theology', but you can visibly see that there is no sound doctrine of Christ in their lives.

Just trying to make my position a bit clearer. I would have completely agreed with you not so long ago, but now God has shown me through His word, and in my own experience, that I have been wrong about this matter. The Lord bless you, sister.

 

[lovely]

For the record, I never endorsed changing the word of God for the sake of unity. Instead, I am saying we should suffer long with one another, address the word of truth together, and not separate over theological differences. It's biblical. The Lord bless all of you.

 

[destiny]

Forgive me lovely if you felt singled out.. that wasn't my intentions at all. I was just presenting what I felt hadn't been mentioned. I think we all tend to see things according to whatever we've come through, and I came out of a church that put unity waaay up there above Jesus Christ and the word of God.
I didn't mean to make you feel that I thought you condoned that, in fact I figured you were posting about the true brethren. Maybe I should have been more clear that I was addressing certain situations and not the posts here. Sorry about that, forum communication is definitely not my strongest point!

 

[shad]

To go against Gods word for the sake of unity is putting man before God and will lead to our destruction. But.. there are doctrines that are nonessential to salvation and unity. We should know the difference.

Amen destiny :yes

 

[lovely]

Forgive me lovely if you felt singled out.. that wasn't my intentions at all. I was just presenting what I felt hadn't been mentioned. I think we all tend to see things according to whatever we've come through, and I came out of a church that put unity waaay up there above Jesus Christ and the word of God.
I didn't mean to make you feel that I thought you condoned that, in fact I figured you were posting about the true brethren. Maybe I should have been more clear that I was addressing certain situations and not the posts here. Sorry about that, forum communication is definitely not my strongest point!

No, no worries, and nothing to forgive. I didn't feel singled out exactly, I just wanted to make myself clear after reading Fran's post too. I didn't want anyone to think I was condoning changing God's word for the sake of unity, and I was afraid I had been misunderstood. I was not offended at either of you, and if I ever say such a thing then please single me out! I don't disagree with anything you said, except 'us' being the ones to leave. I think that the church needs to grow a backbone, in Christ of course, and toss unqualifed leaders who have no fruit out on their rump roasts if they don't repent and submit to church discipline...maybe it's just time to clean house and gather the brethren again in the fear of the Lord. When I see the state of the world, I think we will have to rely upon one another more and more, and our fruit and love are what will identify us. I am sad to see the people of the Lord bicker over things that are not essential, or leave the church altogether, while these false teachers/leaders take over and divide us...when will we purge them as the word says? We should unify based on that sound doctrine of fearing the Lord, talking about the things of God, sharing what we have learned from the Word, bearing each others burdens, practicing hospitality, singing hymns, and sharing prayers with one another. We are overrun with leaven! Maybe I'm just fiesty tonight, because I am feeling better and that warrior spirit is rising up in me again lately. :D Or, maybe you really are rubbing off on me. :o

 

[francisdesales]

No, no worries, and nothing to forgive. I didn't feel singled out exactly, I just wanted to make myself clear after reading Fran's post too. I didn't want anyone to think I was condoning changing God's word for the sake of unity, and I was afraid I had been misunderstood.

I did not sense that you would condone such a thing, my reply was more general than refering to you personally - since some people I have conversed with lately seem to have a disdain for "theology". I am wondering whether Christianity and rational thought have suffered a disconnect to these people.

Your reply was very good.

Regards

 

[destiny]

I agree, lovely.. but the leadership was the problem in the church we came out of. It was either get with their program or leave. A lot of the members knew what the problem was but were too fearful to speak out against it. So fear played a big part in the wrong doing also. They were brainswashed into thinking they were being unloving and divisive if they complained or said anything negative. Another lie that was used to control was, "touch not the anointed"; the leaders would pull that scripture out of context and use it to instill fear in the members, meaning they held a special anointing that shouldn't be questioned.
Control is common practice in most charismatic churches. The ones that did speak up weren't heard since they didn't hold leadership positions; all that was left to do was leave.
Eventually, over the last few years, most of the members left there and the preacher took a job at another church as a marriage counselor. It just completely dried up to nothing, and it needed to.
Now they have another pastor there who is trying to revive it; I don't know anything about him but we sure won't be going back there.
That one church taught us so much! :shocked!

 

[mutzrein]

I think too often we unconsciously substitute the word 'unity' for 'agreement'. The truth is none of us have agreement on everything - let alone doctrine.

I believe that unity is the oneness that we, who are born of God's spirit, have in Christ. We are brothers and sisters in Christ, sons and daughters of the living God.

Romans 8:17 - Now if we are children, then we are heirsâ€â€heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

 

[francisdesales]

I agree, lovely.. but the leadership was the problem in the church we came out of. It was either get with their program or leave. A lot of the members knew what the problem was but were too fearful to speak out against it. So fear played a big part in the wrong doing also. They were brainswashed into thinking they were being unloving and divisive if they complained or said anything negative. Another lie that was used to control was, "touch not the anointed"; the leaders would pull that scripture out of context and use it to instill fear in the members, meaning they held a special anointing that shouldn't be questioned.

The Church is always reforming. I think it is easier to do it while inside, then from the outside.

Control is common practice in most charismatic churches. The ones that did speak up weren't heard since they didn't hold leadership positions; all that was left to do was leave.

There have always been such a "battle" between the "prophet" and the "priest", between those who it appears the Spirit moves and between organized leadership. I think there is enough precedent in Scriptures that we are to heed BOTH. But sometimes, it can be difficult to discern when the differences appear to be "irreconcilable". I am sure God will judge how we follow our conscience and whether we made a true effort to follow what God wanted us to do.

Regards

 

[destiny]

Fran, I have no doubt that God has brought me out and is bringing others out of "religious babylon". Believe me, it's best that I stay out at this point. I didn't share every spiritual thing that went on during that time, or in how God has worked in me since then, but I have no doubt I am where He wants me to be, now.

 

[lovely]

No, no worries, and nothing to forgive. I didn't feel singled out exactly, I just wanted to make myself clear after reading Fran's post too. I didn't want anyone to think I was condoning changing God's word for the sake of unity, and I was afraid I had been misunderstood.

I did not sense that you would condone such a thing, my reply was more general than refering to you personally - since some people I have conversed with lately seem to have a disdain for "theology". I am wondering whether Christianity and rational thought have suffered a disconnect to these people.

Your reply was very good.

Regards

Thanks fran, I felt better making myself clear, and I appreciate your response. I will try not to be so self-centered in the future. The Lord bless you.