When is a couple considered married?

[TonyChanYT]

There are at least four perspectives:

1. From God's perspective, Mark 10:

9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.

Genesis 24:

67 Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife.

People today do not accept this definition of marriage because they want to have sex without the commitment of marriage.

2. From an OT law's perspective, NIV Exodus 22:

16“If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife.

In this case, her father may intervene:

17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

3. From the couple's inter-personal perspective, Ephesians 5:

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her

The two are committed to each other. There are practical consequences. The husband gives himself up for his woman.

4. From society's perspective, e.g., when you have the civic legal paper, you are married. Judges 3:

6 They took their daughters in marriage and gave their own daughters to their sons, and served their gods.

Matthew 24:

38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark.

Would it be possible to just get married in church without involving the state at all?

Yes, e.g., in the province of New Brunswick in Canada.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

People are considered married by God when they get engaged. This is why Joseph worried about Mary being stoned to death for adultery,

Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. Mt.1:19

 

[Who Me]

People are considered married by God when they get engaged. This is why Joseph worried about Mary being stoned to death for adultery,

Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. Mt.1:19

Sorry, but in Jewish biblical society a betrothal was a legally binding contract to marry.
So yes in Jewish society it was the equivalent to being married.

However that was societies are arrangement, not a biblical one.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Sorry, but in Jewish biblical society a betrothal was a legally binding contract to marry.
So yes in Jewish society it was the equivalent to being married.

However that was societies are arrangement, not a biblical one.

It's what God commanded through Moses. In cases where the sex was consentual, both the man and woman were put to death,

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

In cases of rape, the man was executed,

But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. Deu.22:23-27

 

[Who Me]

It's what God commanded through Moses. In cases where the sex was consentual, both the man and woman were put to death,

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

In cases of rape, the man was executed,

But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. Deu.22:23-27

As I said in biblical Jewish society betrothal was a legally binding contract.
What you've said adds nothing and changes nothing.

 

[miamited]

HI TonyChanYT

I've long considered, based on the example of the first marriage, that God sees two people as married when they become one. This oneness seems to be expressed through sexual intercourse. Further support for such an understanding would be the law that a man who were to rape or have sexual relations with a virgin, that he was to marry the woman. This would seem to support that God's perspective is that even if a man rapes a woman, they are considered to be married in His sight.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Tenchi]

People are considered married by God when they get engaged.

Right. By what means were Adam and Eve wedded to one another? God called them man and wife, a married couple, when he gave Eve to Adam as such. This was before they had had sexual relations. In God's eyes, Eve was Adam's wife because He had given her to him to be his wife. And so, in emulation of the first marriage, when a father (or near relation serving as guardian, or representative/stand-in, of the father) gives a woman to a man to be his wife, at that moment she becomes his wife. Having sex is not what makes a couple married to each other. Such a view would have the sex-slave married to the first man she was forced to "service" sexually. But if she was not his first sexual encounter, how could she be married to him? He would be married to whoever he first had sex with. And if his first sexual encounter was with a woman who'd had sex first with someone else, she would already be "married." To whom, then, would he be married? And so on. This sex=marriage idea is clearly nonsense, leading to complete confusion about who is married to whom, if one just stops a moment to think about it.

1 Corinthians 6:13-18
13 ...The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!
16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.”
17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

Here, Paul explained that sex with a prostitute unites a man (in this case, a Christian man) to her physically, the two literally becoming "one flesh." But he didn't ever indicate that therefore they were married. No, all Paul said is that such a circumstance is "sexual immorality," a sin against one's own body, in particular. In contrasting parallel, Paul also pointed out that the one who is "joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him" so that, when a Christian man engages in sex with a prostitute, he is making a "member of Christ," a "member of a prostitute." Paul, though, never described such a man as the husband of the prostitute, nor did he say she had become his wife. All Paul pointed out was the deep incongruity, the sinfulness, of a member of Christ spiritually making himself a member of a prostitute physically.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

As I said in biblical Jewish society betrothal was a legally binding contract.
What you've said adds nothing and changes nothing.

Jewish society was governed by the Torah, so marriage wasn't decided by what society thought apart from the law of Moses.

In fact, God ordained the laws of who was married and who wasn't in his eyes because the union of a man and woman is the most sacred union on earth. it's symbolic of becoming one with Christ and therefore being one with God,

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Gen.2:24

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Eph.5:32

Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and makethem the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlotis one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 1Cor.6:15-16

 

[Free]

HI TonyChanYT

I've long considered, based on the example of the first marriage, that God sees two people as married when they become one. This oneness seems to be expressed through sexual intercourse. Further support for such an understanding would be the law that a man who were to rape or have sexual relations with a virgin, that he was to marry the woman. This would seem to support that God's perspective is that even if a man rapes a woman, they are considered to be married in His sight.

God bless,
Ted

I don't think it follows that God sees it as marriage. The purpose of such laws was to ensure the woman was provided for.

 

[TonyChanYT]

HI TonyChanYT

I've long considered, based on the example of the first marriage, that God sees two people as married when they become one. This oneness seems to be expressed through sexual intercourse. Further support for such an understanding would be the law that a man who were to rape or have sexual relations with a virgin, that he was to marry the woman. This would seem to support that God's perspective is that even if a man rapes a woman, they are considered to be married in His sight.

God bless,
Ted

I think so, at least from Moses' perspective.

 

[TonyChanYT]

I don't think it follows that God sees it as marriage.

Perhaps not, but it was Moses' perspective.

The purpose of such laws was to ensure the woman was provided for.

Right.

 

[Free]

Perhaps not, but it was Moses' perspective.

Where is that stated in scripture?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

HI TonyChanYT

I've long considered, based on the example of the first marriage, that God sees two people as married when they become one. This oneness seems to be expressed through sexual intercourse. Further support for such an understanding would be the law that a man who were to rape or have sexual relations with a virgin, that he was to marry the woman. This would seem to support that God's perspective is that even if a man rapes a woman, they are considered to be married in His sight.

God bless,
Ted

Hello Ted.
Rapists were executed by Moses' law (Deu.22:25

It may seem like sex consumated marriage, but marriage had to be consensual.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Where is that stated in scripture?

The law was given and written by Moses.

 

[Free]

The law was given and written by Moses.

Yes, but I don't see where it is even implied that Moses saw sex, especially rape, as equaling marriage. Ii is likely he was just making sure that the woman was provided for, since sex outside of marriage would have made it difficult for her to find a husband.

 

[TonyChanYT]

I don't see where it is even implied that Moses saw sex, especially rape, as equaling marriage.

Right, I agree.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Right. By what means were Adam and Eve wedded to one another? God called them man and wife, a married couple, when he gave Eve to Adam as such. This was before they had had sexual relations. In God's eyes, Eve was Adam's wife because He had given her to him to be his wife. And so, in emulation of the first marriage, when a father (or near relation serving as guardian, or representative/stand-in, of the father) gives a woman to a man to be his wife, at that moment she becomes his wife. Having sex is not what makes a couple married to each other. Such a view would have the sex-slave married to the first man she was forced to "service" sexually. But if she was not his first sexual encounter, how could she be married to him? He would be married to whoever he first had sex with. And if his first sexual encounter was with a woman who'd had sex first with someone else, she would already be "married." To whom, then, would he be married? And so on. This sex=marriage idea is clearly nonsense, leading to complete confusion about who is married to whom, if one just stops a moment to think about it.

1 Corinthians 6:13-18
13 ...The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
14 And God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power.
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never!
16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, “The two will become one flesh.”
17 But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

Here, Paul explained that sex with a prostitute unites a man (in this case, a Christian man) to her physically, the two literally becoming "one flesh." But he didn't ever indicate that therefore they were married. No, all Paul said is that such a circumstance is "sexual immorality," a sin against one's own body, in particular. In contrasting parallel, Paul also pointed out that the one who is "joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him" so that, when a Christian man engages in sex with a prostitute, he is making a "member of Christ," a "member of a prostitute." Paul, though, never described such a man as the husband of the prostitute, nor did he say she had become his wife. All Paul pointed out was the deep incongruity, the sinfulness, of a member of Christ spiritually making himself a member of a prostitute physically.

I think Pauls point was that it's not possible to be one with God and one with the world at the same time. People who engage in sinful desires divorce themselves from Christs' body (the church) and therefore God himself,

Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother'sdivorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is Isa.50:1

 

[Tenchi]

I think Pauls point was that it's not possible to be one with God and one with the world at the same time. People who engage in sinful desires divorce themselves from Christs' body (the church) and therefore God himself,

Well, he doesn't say this in the passage.

In any case, the giving of a woman by her father to a man as his wife, is, I think, when God considers them married.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Well, he doesn't say this in the passage.

In any case, the giving of a woman by her father to a man as his wife, is, I think, when God considers them married.

I agree, as long as christians are aware that adultery separates people from God

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cor.6:9-10

Unless adultery is confessed and forsaken, they will be forever separated from God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

I think Pauls point was that it's not possible to be one with God and one with the world at the same time. People who engage in sinful desires divorce themselves from Christs' body (the church) and therefore God himself,

You hit that nail on the head !

Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother'sdivorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is Isa.50:1

That also applies to all other sins too.