When is a couple considered married?

[miamited]

Hello Ted.
Rapists were executed by Moses' law (Deu.22:25

It may seem like sex consumated marriage, but marriage had to be consensual.

Hi journeyman,

We likely have different translations, but I find in Deuteronomy 22:28-19 this:

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

That's in the NIV. What does your translation say in that place? The difference seems to be in whether or not the virgin is pledged to be married.

God bless,
Ted

 

[journeymanisnothing]

You hit that nail on the head !

That also applies to all other sins too.

Yes and all of it is rooted in our relationship to God, which is what the marriage unit he ordained is symbolic of. Paul illustrates this in 1Cor.11.

...the head of every man is Christ...the head of Christ is God.....his head...is the image and glory of God vss.3,7

On earth, mans' head, Jesus, is the image of God. All other men (beside Adam) are born from women (the church) making all women and men (except for Christ) equal.

the man is not of the woman.....even so is the man also by the woman; vss.8,11-12

Making "all things of God" vs.12, who is Christ.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Hi journeyman,

We likely have different translations, but I find in Deuteronomy 22:28-19 this:

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

That's in the NIV. What does your translation say in that place? The difference seems to be in whether or not the virgin is pledged to be married.

God bless,
Ted

It could be interpreted that way, but it can also mean the way Amnon forced Tamar,

he took hold of her, and said unto her, Come lie with me, my sister. And she answered him, Nay, my brother, do not force me; for no such thing ought to be done in Israel: do not thou this folly....
2Sam.13:12-13

She consented to marry him, but didn't want to have premarital sex with him.

Of course the text in Deu. doesn't specifically say the unengaged damsel must consent, but knowing how God hates abuse, I believe we can assume he opposes all rape.

 

[miamited]

Of course the text in Deu. doesn't specifically say the unengaged damsel must consent, but knowing how God hates abuse, I believe we can assume he opposes all rape.

Hi journeyman

Fortunately the question at hand is not how God feels about rape. The question was when does God consider two people married. For that, I believe He may well consider two people who have engaged in the 'making themselves one' as being married.

God bless,
Ted

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Hi journeyman

Fortunately the question at hand is not how God feels about rape.
The question was when does God consider two people married. For that, I believe He may well consider two people who have engaged in the 'making themselves one' as being married.
God bless,
Ted

Hi Ted.
I know the topic is how God considers two people married, but, marriage between a man and woman is symbolic of Christs' union with us.

That's why we should focus on how God says people are married to him. If we do that, the answer to this thread is made plain,

Two people who engage in sex may be married in Gods' eyes, but not necessarily the way he intended, because lots of marriages are going to hell In this life and the next.

 

[miamited]

That's why we should focus on how God says people are married to him. If we do that, the answer to this thread is made plain,

Ok, I'm game What is the plain answer to this thread from someone who is focused on how God says people are married to him? When are a man and woman considered married in God's sight?

God bless,
Ted

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Ok, I'm game What is the plain answer to this thread from someone who is focused on how God says people are married to him? When are a man and woman considered married in God's sight?

God bless,
Ted

When they commit themselves together this way,

I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD. His.2:19-20

God is committed to us that way. We're committed to him that way.

 

[donadams]

Married by consent before God or His witness sexual consummation not required to be married.

Example:
Adam and Eve were married in the garden of Eden but no sex until Gen 4:1

 

[Tenchi]

It would be helpful, I think, for folks to remember that a "deflowered" woman in OT Israel times became "used goods," so to speak, and thus no longer a prospect for marriage. Such a woman would be consigned to forced singleness and often eventual destitution. In desperation, many such women resorted to prostitution. The stipulations of Mosaic Law requiring the man who had taken an unbetrothed woman's virginity to take permanent responsibility for her by marriage recognized and guarded against the awful fate that would otherwise descend upon the "deflowered" woman. The law, though, did not indicate that a raped woman was, by the sexual act, married. The command of the law for the rapist to marry her plainly indicates that he had not done so merely by taking her virginity.

 

[donadams]

Christian marriage is a sacrament that provides grace for the married Christians that they have need of everyday! Matt 19:4-6

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Jn 1:16-17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Grace is the life of God in us, breathed Jn 20:21

Grace is the uniting force of the new covenant

 

[miamited]

HI journeyman

I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD. His.2:19-20

So, it's your understanding that all of the billions of marriages that have been consummated since the beginning of time were invalid, as far as God's understanding, if the two didn't marry with the intentions that Jesus offers to his bride.

Just curious.

God bless,
Ted

 

[journeymanisnothing]

HI journeyman

So, it's your understanding that all of the billions of marriages that have been consummated since the beginning of time were invalid, as far as God's understanding, if the two didn't marry with the intentions that Jesus offers to his bride.

Just curious.

God bless,
Ted

I don't know about billions of marriages. I do know if two people are engaged in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies...in faithfulness, divorce wouldn't exist.

 

[donadams]

Saint Valentine is the patron of Christian sacrament of marriage!

Early in the Roman Empire they needed men for the military and forbade marriage, Saint Valentine performed marriages at night, when found out he was martyred for Christ!

Thanks

 

[miamited]

I don't know about billions of marriages. I do know if two people are engaged in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies...in faithfulness, divorce wouldn't exist.

Hi journeyman

Doesn't that answer actually beg the question? Since we have soooo much divorce won't the number be in the billions?

God bless,
Ted

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Hi journeyman

Doesn't that answer actually beg the question? Since we have soooo much divorce won't the number be in the billions?

God bless,
Ted

Yes my friend it does, but the point I'm not communicating very well is that the readon it is that way, is because one or both spouses are disobeying Jesus.
They don't look at their spouse the way he wants us to.

This is why Paul said,

the head of the woman is the man.....every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: 1Cor.11:3,5

A holy woman should not expose her husband to shame. We should all be growing. Men and women are his church with Christ reigning.

 

[donadams]

Hi journeyman

Doesn't that answer actually beg the question? Since we have soooo much divorce won't the number be in the billions?

God bless,
Ted

Divorce is granted by the state not God!

A valid sacramental marriage between two baptized Christians is un breakable, only at the death of one of them does the marriage end.

Matt 19:
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

 

[miamited]

Hi donadams

A valid sacramental marriage between two baptized Christians is un breakable, only at the death of one of them does the marriage end.

While that's a noble assertion, I doubt that's the reality of life out here in real world. Even Jesus alluded to divorce among the people of God, although he didn't have anything good to say about it.

God bless,
Ted