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When the Pope kissed the Koran

Actually, it was MANY years later that I learned that Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran. After thinking about how Jesus might have responded to being presented with such a book, I determined that the Pope's kissing of that book was a catastrophic mistake. Does anyone here believe that Jesus would have kissed that book? Not a chance. Jesus would have thrown that book to the ground and admonished those that followed its teachings for following a pagan religion and he would have warned them that they were on the wrong path. It was then that I realized that the Catholic Church is also on the wrong path. While I believe that the church has countless good and holy people, the organization itself is flawed. Anyway, after that, I stopped identifying as a Catholic and became, simply, a "Christian".

I believe that Pope John Paul II made the mistake of wanting to conform to the world and be seen as "moderate" and "tolerant" and "accepting". The Pope isn't alone in this regard. Many other Christians, including many on this board, are also unwilling to speak the truth or permit it to be spoken if doing so has the potential to upset a fellow member.

Sometimes, people need to hear something that they may very well dislike.
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The more truth people know the easier it is for people to judge others.

Im guessing you know what the quran says but maybe the Pope did not. Some people just believe what they are told.

Was the Pope an islamic scholar, who knows. He probably was a catholic church scholar.
 
The more truth people know the easier it is for people to judge others.

Im guessing you know what the quran says but maybe the Pope did not. Some people just believe what they are told.

Was the Pope an islamic scholar, who knows. He probably was a catholic church scholar.

So the Pope and his army of lieutenants didn't know that Islam teaches that Jesus is NOT our savior? The Koran is a blasphemous book. Do you believe that Jesus would have kissed that book?
 
So the Pope and his army of lieutenants didn't know that Islam teaches that Jesus is NOT our savior? The Koran is a blasphemous book. Do you believe that Jesus would have kissed that book?

The popes are catholic so i would guess they spend most there time and life focusing on there own religion and practices thats why they make the highest status in there organisation, so possibly dont know much about other religions in depth and what they say and teach.
 
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Many other Christians, including many on this board, are also unwilling to speak the truth or permit it to be spoken if doing so has the potential to upset a fellow member.
Speaking the truth without love is just mean.
Speaking in love without truth is meaningless.

As Christians, we are taught to speak the truth in love.
Sometimes, people need to hear something that they may very well dislike.
When we speak truth without love and try to justify it because we have truth on our side, it only serves our own ego and is simply being mean.

As most know, we do have a few Catholics on this site. But even if we didn't we should not bash the Catholic faith for the sake of simply "speaking truth".

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Kissing the Bible is rich in symbology and stems back many, many centuries. I found this article that did a good job explaining the tradition.

The tradition of kissing the Gospel at Mass is an ancient one with rich symbolism. Nikolaus Gihr in his book The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass explains, “The Book of the Gospels, or rather, the sacred text of the Gospels in general, represents our divine Savior Himself and was, therefore, ever (the same as the images of Christ) a subject of religious veneration … After having tasted and experienced in the Gospel how sweet the Lord is, how faultless His doctrine, how good and refreshing His consolations and promises, the heart of the priest overflows with happiness and joy, and he kisses the words of eternal life, in order to testify his profound reverence, his great and ardent love for them.”

The Second Vatican Council reiterated this belief that Jesus his present in a special way when his Word is proclaimed at Mass, “He is present in His word, since it is He Himself who speaks when the holy scriptures are read in the Church.”


So the question remains, why did Pope John Paul the second kiss a Koran?
Here is an excellent article which explains why.

FATHER JOE:

Is it not a book that speaks directly against the Catholic faith? Does it not reduce the Son of God to a mere prophet? Did not the popes of the past demand its burning? The answer to all these questions is YES, and yet what the Holy Father did was more complicated than what the anti-Catholic and/or sedevacantist spin-doctors might say about it.

One critic argues that it was a blasphemous act, showing his “hatred” of God and his apostate defection from the true faith. It was none of these things. The Pope is on the record about the differences between Catholics and the followers of Islam. Let us look at the situation. The Pope longed to go to Iraq in order to walk in the footsteps of Abraham, claimed as a “father in faith” by Muslims, Jews, and Christians. Pope John Paul II saw firsthand the depth of man’s inhumanity to his brothers and sisters. Our history as a world is written in blood. As illustrated in his repeated “mea culpa,” he strives for a new understanding between peoples where dialogue, tolerance, and cooperation will replace anathemas, persecution, and rivalry. Abraham is an integral figure of unity in turning things around politically. Looking at the incident in question, the Holy Father received a delegation that included the Shiite Imam of Khadum Mosque, the Sunni President of the council that operates the Iraqi Islamic Bank, and a member of the Iraqi Ministry of Religion. The invitation of a papal visit was renewed. They even went so far as to say that it would be “a grace from heaven.” While Iraq has been guilty of real violations of human rights, this Islamic state was the most tolerant of Christians than any of its Islamic neighbors. Many Catholics held positions in government, commerce, education, etc. The Chaldean Patriarch of Babylon (Iraq), His Beatitude Raphael I Bidawid, was a major spokesman for the delegation. He applauded the Pope’s actions and words as a true sign of concern from the Successor of St. Peter. (Christians represented 5% of the 20 million people in Iraq. Catholics of the large Chaldean rite [implementing the Aramaic language] and of the smaller Latin rite represented 80% of all Christians there.) It was said that a papal visit would confirm the faith of Christian believers while showing forth a genuine love for all in this mostly Muslim nation.

The Koran was a gift to him from the delegation. Islamic peoples are not casual in the giving of gifts. It represents the giver. They knew perfectly well that the Pope was a Catholic Christian, but they gave to him that which was regarded as most important in their life, their own holy book. Thus, at the end of the audience, the Pope showed his deep appreciation to this intimate self-donation, by bowing and kissing the Koran as a sign of respect. Such a gesture ran totally against the grain of crusades and condemnations. It did not mean that the Pope accepted all that was in the book, only that his love for the Muslim people, and the Iraqis in particular, was genuine. He makes the first move, not in the capitulation of our faith, but in the recognition that the followers of Jesus and those who cherish Mohammed should not be engaged in name-calling, or worse, killing each other. The Pope appreciated the suffering of the Iraqi people, particularly the women and children. It showed he did not look down upon them but had a genuine respect for them within the brotherhood of man.

 
Hey stovebolts

Would Jesus have kissed a Koran?
Considering the circumstance, he very well may have. The Koran has many of the same stories as Torah and the Tanak. Abraham is central to both books. I worked with a Muslim man for about a year who believed in Sharia law. He loved to talk about his faith, and was very eager to speak with me as a Christian. We spoke much about King David and of course Abraham. Just as Christianity has extremes, the Muslim faith is no different.

It is not for me to condemn the Pope considering the circumstances in which kissing the Koran was a sign of respect to the givers, especially considering the hostility Christians receive in Iraq. We're not talking America here, were talking Iraq and the mere fact that a Muslim country would allow Christianity to flourish is amazing in and of itself.
 
Considering the circumstance, he very well may have. The Koran has many of the same stories as Torah and the Tanak. Abraham is central to both books. I worked with a Muslim man for about a year who believed in Sharia law. He loved to talk about his faith, and was very eager to speak with me as a Christian. We spoke much about King David and of course Abraham. Just as Christianity has extremes, the Muslim faith is no different.

It is not for me to condemn the Pope considering the circumstances in which kissing the Koran was a sign of respect to the givers, especially considering the hostility Christians receive in Iraq. We're not talking America here, were talking Iraq and the mere fact that a Muslim country would allow Christianity to flourish is amazing in and of itself.
Thanks.

Just for the record, I didn't "condemn" the Pope.
There is less than ZERO chance that Jesus would ever kiss that book.

Jesus would have told the truth and guys like you would have been offended. Jesus offended a LOT of people.
 
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"You are quick to be offended, the first to attack and the LAST to forgive." (Evolving Christian)
I'm the first to respond because this forum is quiet. No one else is interested enough to respond to your thread.
I am offended by your constant derogatory commentary towards...Catholics, Catholic Popes, pro choice voters, Muslims, left leaning Democrat voters, and so on.
Forgiving you would be naive. You don't get it. You continue in your own echo chamber.
 
They're not "flourishing" anymore, thanks to ISIS.
Please keep in mind that this event was pre-ISIS. This should give you an indication of how thankful that Pope John Paul the second was by the local Muslims who allowed the Christian faith to flourish within their communities. If you read the article, the Koran was a gift, and a very sacred gift. It was the highest gift they could give and honestly, kissing it was a symbolic gesture showing their common love for one another.

When ISIS took over Iraq, we know what happened to Christians and their churches. They were persecuted. Now that Iraq is free from ISIS, Pope Francis thought it the most urgent matter to make a trip to Iraq and I think this was a good thing.
 
How do you think Jesus would have dealt with Islamic leaders?
I can't say with certainty, but perhaps we can glean from this.
And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

In regard to Jesus in the Temple (Same temple he overturned the tables much later)
“And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?”

But maybe the most telling of all would have been how he dealt with Pilate. I trust you will take a few minutes and read John 18 for yourself.

Jesus wasn't into petty arguments, especially ones where he just wanted to be self righteous. What I've always admired about God is that he's always taken people from where they're at. For example, God doesn't have Moses tell Pharaoh that Pharoah isn't a god and that all the other god's are just a figment of that cultures imagination. And what's even more interesting, is Jesus talks about Hades, as if it's a real place. Did you know that Hades is actually Zeus's brother which derives from greek mythology? And Peter writes about the depths of Hades where the most wicked are sent. BTW, in greek mythology, everyone went to the abode of Hades when they died. But yes, there was a special place in Hades for the wicked. Do we now say that Jesus was promoting greek mythology? I don't think so.

The ministry of Jesus was one of reconciliation and we are called to be ministers of reconciliation ( 1 Corinthians 5:11-21). Jesus did not go around condemning the unbelievers, as a matter of fact, he didn't condemn those who put him on the cross.
 
My guess is that Jesus would preach to Muslins and then shake the dust from his sandals when they denied him. I don't believe that Jesus would sit down with Muslim leaders to try and persuade them just like he didn't waste his time doing so with Jewish leaders.

I happen to think that the Pope's time, energy, and effort would be better invested in other ways. But as I'm writing this, I'm reminded of Teddy Roosevelt's statement about not worrying about what do-nothing-critics like me think. Lol!

You see, I'm also willing to pick on myself. In fact, it's easy to do!
 
Actually, it was MANY years later that I learned that Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran. After thinking about how Jesus might have responded to being presented with such a book, I determined that the Pope's kissing of that book was a catastrophic mistake. Does anyone here believe that Jesus would have kissed that book? Not a chance. Jesus would have thrown that book to the ground and admonished those that followed its teachings for following a pagan religion and he would have warned them that they were on the wrong path. It was then that I realized that the Catholic Church is also on the wrong path. While I believe that the church has countless good and holy people, the organization itself is flawed. Anyway, after that, I stopped identifying as a Catholic and became, simply, a "Christian".

I believe that Pope John Paul II made the mistake of wanting to conform to the world and be seen as "moderate" and "tolerant" and "accepting". The Pope isn't alone in this regard. Many other Christians, including many on this board, are also unwilling to speak the truth or permit it to be spoken if doing so has the potential to upset a fellow member.

Sometimes, people need to hear something that they may very well dislike.
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The pope kissing the koran is his way of taking authority over it.
 
My guess is that Jesus would preach to Muslins and then shake the dust from his sandals when they denied him.
Jesus teaches us to preach to every nation and for those who reject us, we shake the dust off our feet. That means move on... Peter denied Jesus three times and Jesus never wiped the dust from his feet. Did you know that the highest praises from Jesus of those with faith went to gentiles, not Jews? Think on that.
I don't believe that Jesus would sit down with Muslim leaders to try and persuade them just like he didn't waste his time doing so with Jewish leaders.
Jesus didn't try and persuade anyone. He spoke and you either accepted it or not. Jesus ate with many pharasis, and even converted a few. Jesus was willing to talk with anyone, but especially those who would listen. When we look at John Paul II,wasn't he doing something similar in Iraq? And isn't the current Pope seeking reconciliation to those who are not rejecting him? Abraham was known for his hospitality, it's a trait the western world has lost in my opinion.
 
Jesus teaches us to preach to every nation and for those who reject us, we shake the dust off our feet. That means move on... Peter denied Jesus three times and Jesus never wiped the dust from his feet. Did you know that the highest praises from Jesus of those with faith went to gentiles, not Jews? Think on that.

Jesus didn't try and persuade anyone. He spoke and you either accepted it or not. Jesus ate with many pharasis, and even converted a few. Jesus was willing to talk with anyone, but especially those who would listen. When we look at John Paul II,wasn't he doing something similar in Iraq? And isn't the current Pope seeking reconciliation to those who are not rejecting him? Abraham was known for his hospitality, it's a trait the western world has lost in my opinion.

I appreciate your counter argument. Good stuff.
 
How so, the article I posted shows it as a sign of respect and appreciation to those who gave it to him.
When the pope gets off an airplane, what's the first thing he does?
He gets done on his knees and kisses the ground.
Why?
Because he's claiming that land for the romanist church.
Most romanist catholics never know these things.
Why?
Because they simply refuse to believe it.
 
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