When We Die

[Drew]

Where do you believe the people that have died are at this moment?

Thank you for reading my post. I am actually not terribly sure about an answer to your question - I am torn between believing they "sleep" and believing that the "redeemed", at least, are in a place called "heaven". In this respect, I agree with Alabaster - heaven is indeed a place.

But I trust you realize that the story of Lazarus could be a parable and yet it could still be true that there exists an "Abraham's bosom".

Consider the story of the three little pigs and the wolf. The fact that this is clearly a metaphorical vehicle for making a morality point does not mean that pigs and wolves do not, in fact, exist.

 

[Drew]

We're not resurrected when we die... and the scriptures tell us that the whole creation groans and is waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our bodies..

I agree. Whatever happens to the redeemed in the meantime, their final state is one of physical embodiment in a resurrection body with legs, arms, face, nose, stomach, teeth - the whole nine yards.

 

[Prince]

Thank you for reading my post. I am actually not terribly sure about an answer to your question - I am torn between believing they "sleep" and believing that the "redeemed", at least, are in a place called "heaven". In this respect, I agree with Alabaster - heaven is indeed a place.

But I trust you realize that the story of Lazarus could be a parable and yet it could still be true that there exists an "Abraham's bosom".

Consider the story of the three little pigs and the wolf. The fact that this is clearly a metaphorical vehicle for making a morality point does not mean that pigs and wolves do not, in fact, exist.

I am torn between believing they "sleep" and believing that the "redeemed", at least, are in a place called "heaven". In this respect, I agree with Alabaster - heaven is indeed a place.

Ok lets focus on the sleep part for now. If in fact when men die they go to sleep do you believe they resurrect when Jesus returns?





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[Drew]

I'll throw this into the pot...

Matthew 27:51-53: And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Jesus wasn't the only One resurrected on that first morning.

I think this needs to be carefully qualified. I suggest that whereas Jesus truly had a resurrection body - one with certain new and wonderful properties - those that were raised did not have such bodies. Instead, they must have simpy been "restored" to their "old" bodies. Why? Because Paul is pretty clear - Jesus is the only person with a resurrection body - the rest of us get them at the time of His return (1 Corinthians 15).

 

[Drew]

Ok lets focus on the sleep part for now. If in fact when men die they go to sleep do you believe they resurrect when Jesus returns?

Definitely for those "in Christ".

For those that are "lost", I am not sure they will even be raised in any sense at all. perhaps there is some scripture that settles this matter - I have not thought about this issue much. However, whatever else happens to the lost, I do not believe they are tormented eternally, I believe they are annihilated (at some point, anyway).

But, I am personally convinced that if we, the redeemed, sleep, we will indeed "wake up" to a resurrection body.

 

[Alabaster]

Alabaster...I just wonder if them dying again would conflict with the fact that it is appointed for men to die once, and after death comes judgment. Can a man die twice?

That is the natural, but with God, the supernatural supersedes the natural. These events were supernatural. Anything goes with the extreme law-breaking power of God!

Do the Scriptures record the deaths of anyone who had been resurrected once from death?

Certainly not those who have been translated, like Enoch and Elijah. No names were given about any others who have been resurrected when they died the first time except for Lazarus.

 

[Drew]

Certainly not those who have been translated, like Enoch and Elijah. No names were given about any others who have been resurrected when they died the first time except for Lazarus.

As per an earlier post, I suggest that we cannot understand Lazarus as having been "resurrected" in the literal sense - this would imply that he had an immortal resurrection body, which is clearly not the case.

I suspect you agree - Lazarus was "brought back to life", not "resurrected".

 

[Alabaster]

Definitely for those "in Christ".

For those that are "lost", I am not sure they will even be raised in any sense at all. perhaps there is some scripture that settles this matter - I have not thought about this issue much. However, whatever else happens to the lost, I do not believe they are tormented eternally, I believe they are annihilated (at some point, anyway).

But, I am personally convinced that if we, the redeemed, sleep, we will indeed "wake up" to a resurrection body.

Revelation 20:5-6;11-15 NLT
5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.


The Final Judgment

11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Drew]

Revelation 20:5-6;11-15 NLT
5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

I have not studied this "1000 year" thing, so I am not really qualified to comment on it.

The Final Judgment

11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.

I am indeed open to the idea that the "lost" will indeed be "judged" while in a conscious state. But from a lot of study on this, I am quite convinced the lost will ultimately be annihilated.

 

[Lehigh3]

Abraham's bosom was emptied in AD70.

We all go on to our "inheritance" in heaven since then.

All else is over-religious fundamentalism.

Paul is not still waiting as a beheaded martyr under the altar. God is faithful. Peter knew Jesus would "return" & receive him to himself & that at the resurrection of the dead he would be perfected in heaven.

Heaven is a state but a place too. The word "resurrection" can be to "arise" also so we are resurrected on earth & to heaven.

But Peter in 1Pet.1:4-5- said we have an inheritance reserved in heaven for us. Just like Daniel's promise of his inheritance at the end of the days (AD70)

No lines no waiting in Hades. Abraham's bosom was emptied & all were able to go to into heaven with God.

 

[Alabaster]

Abraham's bosom was emptied in AD70.

Actually Jesus opened the doors to Abraham's Bosom and took the keys with Him in AD 33.

Revelations 1:18 NKJV
I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

We all go on to our "inheritance" in heaven since then.

True. However, we are spirits who have not yet inherited our new glorified flesh bodies.

All else is over-religious fundamentalism.

Anything else is based on false interpretation of the scriptures.

Paul is not still waiting as a beheaded martyr under the altar. God is faithful. Peter knew Jesus would "return" & receive him to himself & that at the resurrection of the dead he would be perfected in heaven.

You can't behead a spirit. He is still waiting to receive his new body at the Rapture.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53 NLT
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

 

[Prince]

Definitely for those "in Christ".

For those that are "lost", I am not sure they will even be raised in any sense at all. perhaps there is some scripture that settles this matter - I have not thought about this issue much. However, whatever else happens to the lost, I do not believe they are tormented eternally, I believe they are annihilated (at some point, anyway).

But, I am personally convinced that if we, the redeemed, sleep, we will indeed "wake up" to a resurrection body.

Ok

You know, I think pretty much everyone believes that the resurrection happens on the last trump (7th trump) as do I....

But the 5th seal takes place before the 7th trump, look at what is going on during the opening of the 5th seal (before the resurrection)

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

These people are dead - yet they are alive in heaven speaking to the Almighy.

10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
.
These people are not only alive they are conscious and want to be avenged.

11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Prince]

Abraham's bosom was emptied in AD70.

We all go on to our "inheritance" in heaven since then.

All else is over-religious fundamentalism.

Paul is not still waiting as a beheaded martyr under the altar. God is faithful. Peter knew Jesus would "return" & receive him to himself & that at the resurrection of the dead he would be perfected in heaven.

Heaven is a state but a place too. The word "resurrection" can be to "arise" also so we are resurrected on earth & to heaven.

But Peter in 1Pet.1:4-5- said we have an inheritance reserved in heaven for us. Just like Daniel's promise of his inheritance at the end of the days (AD70)

No lines no waiting in Hades. Abraham's bosom was emptied & all were able to go to into heaven with God.

Hello

What scripture are you basing this off of ? I have never heard of this before, Do you believe Christ was speaking of 70Ad in Matthew 24?